Comments on: Palm Treo 680 Review

And the more complicated the device - such as a wifi sled - the further out in the Palm product cycle the devices get released. In other words, by the time the manufacturer gets the bugs out of the manufacturing process and gets them into the retail chain, Palm has released a "new and improved" model that's incompatible with the device they just made. Heck, the Treo has an SDIO slot but can't even handle Palm's own wifi card (for whatever reason).

Once again, through it's ham-handed approaches, Palm seems to work as hard as it can to discourage the third-party innovators that made PalmPilots the incredibly useful device they are/were.

Whatever the logic is that dictated the decision, you can be assured that it was the carriers' logic, not Palm's.

For what it's worth, if you read the job descriptions at Palm.com there's "WiFi this" and "WiFi that" so I expect to see the picture change on the WiFi front before long. 'Course that could be for Palm's secret "Third Business" device that's supposed to be out next year.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Is Cingular subsidising the Unlocked Treo 680 also?
Do they have that much control over Palm as to prevent them the support of their own wi-fi add on?

Wow...

The same "trembling with fear" rationale is why Palm disabled CDMA BT DUN functionality on their final few handhelds (LifeDrive & TX). They want to sell higher-margin, hevily subsidized Treos and the carriers (especially the 2 CDMA biggies Sprint & Verizon) want to sell overpriced data plans to recoup those subsidies as Beersie points out.

Remember, folks, the domestic CDMA market essentially operates in a vacum and does not follow the same technology, pricing, styling trends seen in GSM markets globally.

Prediction time again:
Assuming Palm doesn't get acquired in the next 3-6 months, the know they have to do something to expand their product line past a handful of similar-looking Treo handsets. Since Palm's shiiit-canned the PDA line, expect something like a data-centric Nokia 770-style cellular "tablet", likely sold in 2 flavors (a pricier wi-fi/BT hybrid version and a EVDO/BT "carrier" version). That way, by keeping this secret "3rd business" looking decidedly unlike a standard candybar or flip phone, Palm can pick some of the legacy PDA business while keeping the carriers (mostly) happy & not cannibalizing Treo sales too much. The "bring yer own connectivity" wi-fi/BT model can be targeted towards the folks like Mike Cane who refuse to sign up for a cellular contract and/or don't need any voice functionality at all.

All of this, of course, could basically be done within something like a regular Palm TX formfactor right now but it'd be too much work/cost for FrakenGarnet and, given the resolution limit of 320*480, not worth the effort. I predict that Palm is going 100% WinMob after the 680.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

That's too logical a move for Palm. Also, aren't Palm rather terrified of being a content/software solutions provider? Their track record so far is the huge palm.net VII/i705 debacle and offering VersaMail 3.5 upgrades.

I proposed ages ago that Palm rebrand & remarket their remaining PDAs as "phone companions" instead of "PDAs" or "handhelds". They could then push those "phone companions" to folks that might have a particular need or want not met by the very limited Treo line.

For example, I really prefer a 320*480 screen, 128mb, and wi-fi. I had that a year ago on my TX but no Treo currently offers any of those particular features. So why can Palm not sell a $20 downloable "plugin" driver (tied to device hardware ID or Hotsync-ID specific) for the E2/LD/TX tailored for whatever type of BT-enabled cellular handset someone owns? Imagine the Phone Link software updated on a bi-weekly or monthly basis and marketed much more aggressively.

So if I own a CDMA handset with BT that supports the DUN profile, I pay my carrier to turn on EVDO tethering and then "buy" the driver/init string from Palm. That way everyone gets their share of the pie and I don't have to be saddled with a Treo's lackluster featureset. Right now I have a $80 voice plan on my Verizon dumbphone & a $55 data-only package on my Treo. I'd rather carry a sleek BT phone + a TX or a Zodiac instead of a Treo and a dumbphone if the monthly charges are going to be the same and I'm going to have to fumble with two devices anyway!

It's just classic Palm shortsightedness. They'd rather disble something like BT DUN and feign ignorance than try and make a few bucks off of it & offer solutions tailored to fit each user's needs.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

I've had my treo 650 since it came out, and the 680 (The only palm device my carrier provides) is not an upgrade in any way....

That's funny. I've gone back and forth between the 650 and 680 for the last 5 weeks and think the 680 is a surprising upgrade in almost every way. The extra memory is a godsend, the slimmer, lighter body has finally resulted in a Treo that is comfortably pocketable, the new Phone app is well thought out, the browser is much better, and it just looks good and feels great in your hand. The only thing I care about that is a slight let-down is the shorter battery life, and even that gets me easily through the heaviest usage days I've been able to throw at it. The thing you complain the most about--the fact that the camera is crappy--is the thing I wish they'd just leave out completely. Don't need it, don't want it, don't care whether it sucks or not.

Nice review, Ryan.

Oh, and by the way, a little bird told me over the weekend that Cingular changed their mind and will have the color Treo 680 after all.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Haven't had a chance to see one of the color ones in person yet. The colors seem to have a metallic sheen to them on the website. The color IS molded into the plastic and is not just an applique or coating similar to the disastrous Zire 72 blue finish, correct?

Brent

Palm Vx -----> LONG WAIT -----> Palm T|X

Having spent my first full day with my delicious new Crimson 680, I'm in love all over again; ready to climb on to my roof and shout to the world my undying devotion to the sexy lil' smartphone that could. (I need to get out more.) The new form factor is gorgeous; despite sharing nearly the exact same dimensions as earlier Treos, it looks and feels much smaller than it looks. Almost like a toy! Lopping off the antenna made a huge difference, as did hiding the SD slot and the shrunken battery.

I love the new phone app, Blazer is heaps faster, phone reception is better, there's more RAM than I know what to do with, RealPlayer has been banished to the depths of Treo hell and apps like Coreplayer that used to choke my 650 and sometimes crash it now run with nary a squeak. Did I mention the lovely new form factor?

Finally, it retains all the old Treo favourites: smooth & simple one-handed navigation, the best SMS/MMS messaging app on the planet, the pretty & shiny little (and yet, paradoxically, big!) screen, excellent media integration, robust email capabilities, the oh-so-convenient silent switch and the 2.5mm headphone jack. Okay, so the headphone jack isn't a favourite. Ditch it already Palm.

The bad:

*The battery life is crap-tacular. I was expecting it to be worse than the 650, but perhaps not this much worse. My usual daily usage pattern on my 650 normally saw me getting home with 70-80% power left; with the 680 it was 35%. (This is with the screen set to about 70% brightness, Bluetooth off and Beam Receive off) If I didn't go home and went out instead (as I usually do a couple of nights a week), I'm not sure I'd be able to trust it to hold a charge.

I'm still reserving judgment for the moment. I was fiddling with a lot today - it was more interesting than doing work - so maybe I was burning it up more than I realised. And sometimes batteries need breaking in before you can get a real idea of their performance, so I'll see how it is another week or two from now before I decide if it's really that bad.

*I quite like the new phone app - it's prettier than the previous version - but they should hide the big tab buttons when you're browsing through your contacts; it kinda sucks that it can now only display 4-5 contacts on screen at once. But on the flip side, the integration of Contacts into the Phone app has made contacts searches much faster. And the method of shuffling your Favourites around - Option+Navigator - is ill-conceived. They should have kept the previous method.

*The stylus is strange. Like a little flexy toy with a plastic tip. It's much less professional-looking than the 650/700 stylii. But I like unprofessional, so it gets a tick in the end.

*TomTom 6 doesn't work on the 680, and nor does Softick Audio Gateway, although both apps are supposedly going to be updated within weeks, according to their respective support teams.

*I'm not sure if this is common to all 680s or just mine, but the red Power/End button is recessed further than the green Send/Answer button. Where the green key gives a definite little click when I press, the red one doesn't - there's practically no feedback at all and it's hard to tell you've actually pressed the button. Not sure if I just got a dud or if this is a conscious design decision to stop the power button being pressed while it's in your pocket. It's weird but I'm already used to it.

Bottom line: the 680 can confidently wear the crown previously held by the 650 as world's best smartphone. It will do anything you ask of it, then laugh at you, beat you up and show you how to do it better.

Except wifi.

Here's to the new Treo! Best. Smartphone. Yet.

And here's to Seidio's soon-to-be-booming line of extended batteries! ;)

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680

Great review. I agree that while the formfactor isn't a huge change, it's a substantial improvement in aesthetics and in feel from both the 700 series and the 650/600 series. What are you going to do with your old 650? Sell it or keep it as a backup?

I thought the 700w/p made a nice change from the 650 just by the improved buttons and slightly curvier edges. But the ungainly antenna detracted considerably from the other improvements. Now that Palm's basically perfected the 320*320 candybar Treo formfactor with the 680 (adding a 3.5mm headphone jack would be the only logical improvement) it's time to come out with something new.

How about, for 2007 at least one of the following:

A data-centric Tablet style wi-fi + cellular device (LifeDrive tablet w/ gigs of flash?), a voice-centric flip Treo (Samsung i550 style), and a 320*480 Treo (either a flip, a slider or a keyboard-less candybar) for the T3/T5/TX diehards?

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

Seems the battery meter may just have been a little screwy - I deliberately ran the battery down to zero last night, after reading the Treocentral thread on the battery issues. When it got to 0%, it kept going for another 45 minutes! :O

I then charged it back to full, and I seem to be getting a much more accurate picture of the battery life. Just needed to give it a little time...

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680

The 700p has larger cache/heap/more ram than the 650 and it's far more sluggish than a patched "rev B" Treo 650.

I seem to recall reading on TreoCentral or so that the 680 is better than the 700p but still not as snappy as a debugged 650.

Aren't you still on Sprint? If so it's a moot point since I doubt we'll see another POS Treo past the 700p for any CDMA carrier.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

Did you notice ANY lag on the 680 at all? From what you recall about the 700p you reviewed, did the 680 lag more, less or about the same as the 700p?

Was the much-criticized SMS lag/lockup present in the 680? That drives me nuts on the 700p...

Also, did you ever encounter the "white screen of death" when launching Blazer?
How about the delay when switching from an app into phone mode?

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

I didn't realize the 680 had been released in Europe

I think there are certain regulars here who'd say it's only one of many things you don't realize...

It has been hinted at in previous posts and a quick visit to Palm's European stores is all you need to keep you informed.

Sadly this lack of support for a newly released product could be indicative of just how much further Palm has slid.

I'm in the UK (which for the sake of keeping Beersy informed, is one of the members of the European Union) and I've not seen any advertising whatsoever for the Treo 680 beyond Palm's own website.

The two most prominent UK mobile phone dealers - the Carphone Warehouse and Phones4u don't even stock Treos and have no plans to do so!

How will Joe and Joanne Public buy Treo 680s when they can't even see it exists!
Credit where credit's due - there's been some promotion of the 750 by Vodafone - it only goes to suggest that Palm is pushing Windows Mobile ahead of Palm.

Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital. Aaron Levenstein

you're seeing more 750 ads 'cause Voda and MS are helping Palm to bankroll the ad campaign

Therefore you're implying that Palm doesn't even have money to advertise its own products in a market where its competitors (i.e. Nokia, Motorola, Sony Ericsson etc) advertise everywhere: TV, press and billboards etc. Sony Ericsson have even used a travelling exhibition dedicated to showing off its Walkman mobiles.

12 months later people like you will come and say, "Oh look, those snooty Europeans aren't interested in the PalmOS 680".

Well Europeans, be they snooty or not, can't buy what they don't know about.

I only know of the Treo 680 because I've been a long-term fan of Palm OS, one who has remained a fan despite all the nonsense Palm and Palmsource have done over the previous three years.

This latest revelation about not having support for the Treo 680 in Europe is an absolute disgrace. I wonder why has this company sunk so low now? What on Earth has Palm's European R&D smartphone centre in Eire been up to for the past year? What's happened to the visionaries that gave us the original Pilot, the III series, the V and the T3?

I'm really beginning to despair for Palm.

It's one incident of crap customer service

This incident is bad enough; it's not as if Palm Europe has tens and tens of current products to keep track of and support, especially when it refuses to provide any support for older devices. Let's spell it out now:

Treo 650
Treo 680
Treo 750

Zire Z22
Tungsten E2
TX
Lifedrive (still listed on Palm UK's website but probably in all effect missing in action)

It's not exactly a list of the Complete Works of Shakespeare.
The Treo 680 had been in the pipeline for at least nine months and was announced two months back in October - more than ample time for briefing and preparing the customer service and support in Europe. Alternatively are you suggesting Palm Europe has released the 680 for sale in Europe without realising it needs to put support in place?

This is bad whichever way you cut it - either Palm Europe is terribly disorganized, can't afford to provide after-sales support or simply doesn't care once it's got customers' money.

Credit where credit is due though, the woman suggesting swapping the unit at the store, the most pragmatic approach seeing this lack of support and repair facilities. She sounds like a sensible woman who has to deal with the consequences of the poor planning by those who manage the company she works for. How long will she last before she says enough is enough?

Yea, just like tricky diicky Nixon and Watergate is one incident of crap behaviour in government.

ROFL. Palm are not crooks!

Until recently I worked in a call centre. Slipups happen all the time, especially when you can't get through to the supervisor as this guy described. It's ridiculous that he was told there was no support planned and I would attribute it to a bad/inadequately informed CS rep rather than Palm having no support strategy in place for one of their products.

magdyreda, maybe these links will help. Here is Palm Europe's Treo 680 Support page, including Service & Repair:
http://euro.palm.com/europe/en/support/treo680.html

And here is a link to start a repair ticket:
https://www.euroservice.palm.com/repair_service/GBR/EE

I'm glad to hear you have smartphones over there. It sounds like you need 'em.

God have mercy on us all if you ever left home without yours Beersy.

:-)

God have mercy on us all if you ever left home without yours Beersy.

Naw, you guys would be fine without me for a few hours. I'd have a big mess of drivel to clean up when I got back online, but I'm used to that. ;-)

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Is this the drivel of which you speak?

www.pikesoft.com/blog

Given the copious amount of verbal diarrhea present at the site listed above, check here for someone in your area to call for help:

http://www.rotorooter.com/

TVoR

So I rang Palm and was informed by the (friendly but completely clueless) rep that it would probably be a few weeks before they would be able to repair it, and even longer than that if I wanted it replaced and that since it was still working with a headset that I should try and get by until they were ready to FIX THE PRODUCT I PAID THEM FOR. (emphasis mine... obviously)

Ridiculous! Looks like I'll be switching back to the 650 for a little while.

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680

I had a similar experience with my TX, headphone worked but no speaker after I took them out.

A fairly standard headphone jack has a physical switch that is disconnected when you insert a plug. I don't know if Palm devices do that or have some kind of "electronic" system of sensing the insertion of the headphones or just what they do to turn off the internal speaker. (I'd guess it is a little more complicated than just a single switch since the speaker can be silenced via hotsync plug circuity as well which relies on electronics, not a physical switch.)

In any case, since my TX was out of warranty, and since I was so frustrated with it already (because of the failing power switch and the failing digitizer), I gave it a serious whack on the desk and it started to work again. It's worked ever since.

You might consider that the problem is not physical as well. Maybe you could remove the battery for an extended length of time (in the hope that the circuits all discharge and return to their default state). I'm truly just guessing here, not saying that any of this will work.

YMMV. I can't recommend intentionally whacking your Treo and possibly cracking the screen or doing some other damage, but my son also used the "whack it" method to fix a very expensive Sony camera a few months ago when it had an apparently "software" problem.

I'm still waiting for the mythical color HandEra.
Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt

I'm trying to look on the bright side: maybe my replacement unit won't have a dodgy power button. ;)

I wish I had encouraging words on that front. However, in my own case, I'm on my fourth TX, having been yanked around by Palm Asia Pacific via their "replacement" unit system. Two of those units had faulty power buttons, the first and then this current one which is no longer under warranty (but I fixed by replacing the power switch myself).

I can only suggest that you choose to have it fixed instead of "exchanged" if you have that option. Otherwise you might end up with someone else's junk that Palm didn't really fix before sending it to you. YMMV, and I certainly hope it does!

I'm still waiting for the mythical color HandEra.
Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt

I said this was an appalling state of affairs and introduction for a new product, a sign of how low Palm has sunk:
http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/9134/#127817
http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/9134/#127890

to which freakout rather glibly replied:

It's one incident of crap customer service; does it really mean the entire company has sunk to a new low?

Well freakout now has a second example of crap customer service - this time he now has personal experience of just how "good" Palm's customer service has become!
http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/9134/#128729

Indeed. It's not very encouraging. I thought about it a bit this morning; it still makes no sense to me that they wouldn't take it back especially considering it's within the 90-day warranty period, so I'm wondering if my CSR was just a moron. When the phases of the moon and time zones permit tomorrow, I'm going to speak to a supervisor instead.

TVoR
2,000,150) Meeting concludes with a cleansing bonfire of malfunctioning Palm hardware and the burning of Ed "The Ripper" Colligan in effigy.

Why not just make it Palm's Support team instead? >:-)

And yes, SIM swapping is the best thing for consumer choice in phones since number portability. You should consider switching to GSM once you're contract's up hk: as a bonus you'll be able to use your Treo overseas on the notoriously drunken, sex-crazed PIC press junkets. ;)

I'll wait and see if my repaired/replacement 680 has any problems. THEN I'll join the mob with the pitchforks and flaming torches. ;)

Update: This time around, I called the Palm Store rather than the useless tech support people. Angie was more than happy to issue me with a return number as it was within the 30-day purchase period when it died, but the kicker? They can't just send me a replacement: they're going to have to refund the money and THEN I'll have to order a new 680.

Of course, this wouldn't be a problem, save for the fact that it wasn't purchased on my credit card but rather my personal shopper's. Why oh WHY can't they just accept international credit cards?* I'm tired of jumping through hoops... I'm almost tempted to get one of my electronics-geek friends to crack it open for me and see if they can have a go at it.

*Okay, I know why, but it still vexes me. It's probably because their US prices are a lot better than their overseas prices. For instance, it's $799 to buy an unlocked 680 in Snooze-tastic Graphite here, whereas for $399 USD (or $510 AUD) you can get an unlocked 680 from the US in your choice of colour AND the mobile music bundle. If people were given a choice, who in their right mind would purchase from anywhere else?

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680

The battery life thing is an annoyance, I admit. I can't always count on two days, so to be safe I really have to remember to charge every night or keep an extra battery in my bag as insurance. Regardless, Palm finally crossed the size/weight threshold where it's comfortable (and unobtrusive) to carry a Treo in your pants pocket, and that's made a big difference.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

I also do not like the fact that some of the notification functionality regarding the LED was removed

Really? In my book, the flashing network status light on the 650 was bar none it's most annoying feature (especially if you kept it on your nightstand when you sleep). It was so bright that even if you put the phone face down on the nightstand it was still like being "lulled" to sleep by a green strobe light. I even found it distracting when driving at night. I know you can install software to turn the damned thing off, but the default non-flashing behavior of the 680 is a huge improvement, IMO.

I'm surprised more people haven't mentioned the improvement in the browser caching in the 680. It's so nice to be able to flip back and forth between a web page and some other application without the page having to reload from the network. That and the extra memory (with the stability it produces) are the two reasons I could never go back to the 650.

One beef that I continue to have with the Treos: they *still* haven't sufficiently integrated the launcher and the phone application in my view. The new tabbed phone application is an improvement, but the PDA functionality still feels bolted on and always has. There should not be two "Homes" on a smartphone, one for all the applications and another for phone and phone-related applications. Time for a complete rethink on that.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

http://tinyurl.com/cwvt7t

Palm's are a bit pricey and don't do much different.