Comments on: Notes from the Foleo Webcast
Palm just wrapped up the webcast for the Foleo product introduction. Jeff Hawkins formerly introduced the device, talked about it's development and intended use and revealed some more specs and details about the upcoming Foleo mobile companion.
Read on for some of our notes and more details from the presentation.
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RE: I started watching the webcast a few minutes ago and...
But as it is, I just think it's too small of a niche. I already must carry my laptop for work, the functionality in this doesn't come close to replacing it, so why would I waste space on it? It really doesn't make sense. I suppose some extremely casual users could have some use for it, but I think they've carved a very small niche with this product.
Palm: Do this with e-ink and a touch screen a-la the Irex Iliad (but with the battery life of the Sony Reader), and you've got a customer. Otherwise you are going down a well trodden path of stripped down laptops, internet only devices, email only devices, web-tv, etc. I suppose people think that they are going to get a million grandmas online with these devices, but that never seems to happen. They just don't fit the need for the rest of us.
RE: I started watching the webcast a few minutes ago and...
I'm sure there are some positive points to this device, but in my opinion Palm is absolutely the wrong company to bring it out in their present state of implementation. Have they learned nothing from the Treo 650 and Lifedrive?
If this is the "big event" Mr. Hawkins and crew have been concentrating upon for the past few years then I guess that explains why it's too much work to even divest the most basic problems on the Treo and they keep releasing a tweaked version of the same one every year or so now. (oh, I'm sorry - the 755 comes in **colors***!!!)
Palm needs to hire a few hungry innovators over there... and QUICK!!!
RE: I started watching the webcast a few minutes ago and...
That's what people have been saying for years but to no avail; it won't happen this time around either. Palm should have focused on evolving the Treo/PDAs and the next-gen Palm OS instead of fiddling around with this.
But I said bye-bye to Palm a while ago, when they released the 750v without Wifi. My advice is: Move on!
Palm Vx (a classic) -> Palm 505 (*yawn*) -> Dell Axim (slooow...) -> Palm TE (great) -> Qtek 9090 (great idea, lousy platform) -> Nokia 6630 (a toy) -> iMate SP3i (not bad) -> Nokia 9300 (can't sync notes!!) -> Treo 650 (awesome) -> hw6915 (almost perfect)
RE: I started watching the webcast a few minutes ago and...
Palm FOOLeo®: Fool me twice, shame on me. I won't get FOOLeoed...
When I first saw one of these, I thought it was actually just a sick joke. An elaborate in-house April Fool's joke. TreoMan assured me it was real. That was the day I finally gave up on Palm. The FOOLeo® is a product that needlessly diverted attention and resources from Palm's core products, resulting in fatal stagnation of both the Treo and Palm's traditional PDA lineups. Palm is too small to spread its (severely limited) talent around, especially on redundant designs. This company is so clueless that there is no way they will ever recover from the burden of being run by utterly IDIOTIC LEECHES that only care about plundering and parasitizing the company until the very end. Most parasites are smart enough to ensure that don't kill their hosts. Not Palm's management. These bloodsuckers have bled the company dry as they've continued to collect paychecks and cash in massive stock options.
The FOOLeo® is an answer to a question no one is asking. Let's see: Almost as big and almost as expensive as a Real Windows device, yet unable to run Real Windows apps? Break me off a piece of that! I'll take twenty! Any device much larger than the Nokia N800 that lacks Real Windows is pointless in this day of ever-improving Windows UMPC, Real Windows micro laptops and smartphones. The FOOLeo® niche simply does not exist. And organisms without a niche invariable die quickly.
Eventually it will be leaked that long ago Palm knew this product was doomed. The problem was that so much time + resources had already been wasted on it that by the time someone finally stepped in and said, "W T F is going on here? This is utter crap that will never sell." no one had the cojones to pull the plug on the project in 2005 when they should have. So now we have the latest equivalent of the Palm i705/DUNGSTEN T5/LifeDrive/Cobalt. As with Cobalt (PalmOS 6), failure to quickly amputate a gangrenous limb (product) will be remembered as the coup de grace that (mercifully?) ended Palm's existence.
What Palm should have released was a simple clamshell "PalmTop®" design along the lines of a CLIE UX50. With a 4 inch screen. Preferrably OLED. In 2005. With a COMPLETE software suite, including email, VPN, NetFront browser, PDF viewer, Word/Excel/Powerpoint-compatible suite. Keep It Simple, Stupid. The FOOLeo® with its current specs may have been a viable product category 4 or 5 years ago when I had urged Palm's product managers to consider a small PalmOS laptop with the simplicity of the AlphaSmart Dana. The key would have been to adhere to the KISS principle and not try to add features that the company's engineers were too clueless to easily implement. Palm is too talentless a company to be trying to reinvent the wheel itself. The FOOLeo® is the hardware equivalent of Cobalt: an unfinished, fundamentally flawed idea that is arriving 2 year too late to matter and will result in the death of the company. Maybe Palm should offer the FOOLeo® in a Special Edition Cobalt color?
The only questions that now remain are these: Now that it has finally been revealed that Emperor Hawkins Has No Clothes and that the Secret Third Business (STB) was a sham all along, who will buy Palm? What value does Palm offer a potential suitor? What assets do Palm have in their portfolio that a company big enough to purchase Palm couldn't purchase cheaper elsewhere or easily copy/develop for themselves?
Palm's "assets":
- A dead PDA lineup that hasn't seen significant improvements (or even a slightly refreshed new model) in years.
- A rapidly-aging set of bulky, shoddily-built smartphones that haven't seen significant improvements made to a 4 year old design. (There isn't much in the latest Treos that wouldn't have been in the 2003 Handspring Treo 600 had Handspring not been living hand-to-mouth + on the verge of bankruptcy when the Treo 600 was originally released.
- A laughable FOOLeo® product that - BY DEFINITION - has no target market that exists outside of Hawkins' dreams. (It's sad to see Hawkins embarassing himself trying to pimp the FOOLeo®. Remember the rhetoric we previously were subjected to re: the i705/DUNGsten T5/LifeDrive/Cobalt? It's baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack.)
- The phone numbers of HTC, Solectron and Inventec.
- Rights to rickety old FrankenPalmOS and the freedom to continue adding more bugs/maggots to the OS until the PalmOS corpse finally putrefies.
- Several hundred million $$$ in cash.
- The Palm and Treo names
"Who's gonna bid it at a billion dollar bill? Five, will you beat it on a billion and five, bid it on a billion and five, a billion and five. Who's gonna bid it at a billion and five dollar bill?"
If PalmSource and Chrysler (twice!) can get sold, Palm has a chance. It all boils down to how greedy the company's board is. Kinda hard to bluff when everyone at the table knows the cards you're holding are utter crap, isn't it, Eric?
TVoR
Copyright, 2007
TVoR, Inc.
Note to Palm
a. mp3 player
b. camera/video
c. full PIM applications (basically, it should do everything the Treo does)
d. Web and e-mail
c. wifi and bluetooth
d. etc.
Good grief. Did I read correctly that the device doesn't even have a calendar?
Double good greif: $500 for the Foleo, $300 for the Treo, about $100 a month for service... darn, that's a lot of money for e-mail.
"I believe in the atomic bomb."
Blogging at http://agabus.com" title="Agabus.com">Agabus.com.
Palm V > Vx > Clie Peg T615C > T3 > Clie TH55 > T3 > Treo 650 > Treo 700p & T3!
RE: Note to Palm
RE: Note to Palm
The Foleo is the long awaited Palm device featuring LINUX OS !!!
It will catch on, you will have a GPL MP3 Player made by joe smock and a Calendar tool made available free by company X!
For Programmers who dont take there cars to work like me, openning a laptop in the bus or subway is out off the question and programming on a Palm Tungsten T3 not practical at all (trust me).
Students who cant afford A Laptop will get access to vital information for lots less back pain and almost twice the battery life!
Teachers will be able to show power point using the video-out function...
I just hope Palm have successfully created there Palm application virtual machine they started working on 12-18 months ago as they announced back then ;-) If the processor is not to weak and storrage is ample, this device will cath on among commuters, among workaholics and as a partial lap-top substitute for student and others.
If Only I did not just buy a lap-top, I would probably be a early adopter this summer :-(
Just remember one thing :
LINUX = GPL = Millions of small (or not CPU intensive) free application that will be ported to this device very easily!
Ben
RE: Note to Palm
> that will be ported to this device very easily!
Giggle.
RE: Note to Palm
1) Treos, as phones, are apparently worthless here in Japan. So, can I sync a Foleo with other devices, like my TX or Mac? Or will a Foleo sync with a Japanese Bluetooth-enabled phone (I'd then have a reason to upgrade my antique DoCoMo phone.)?
2) With Linux, does this finally--FINALLY--mean Unicode support and the possibilty of proper Japanese input that won't create quirks, like StockManager's stock charts causing crashes when J-OS or CJKOS are installed?
3) WiFi is hard to find in the places I frequent in Tokyo, but my university has Ethernet cables everywhere. I need an Ethernet jack, Palm! Or an Ethernet jack adapter that can plug into the CF card slot or something.
4) No PIMs? Extremely lame, but I expect that will be rectified before too long.
5) The rebate idea is idiotic and for anyone outside the US, almost worthless. Just lower the price and be done with it.
6) How (well) will Palm OS apps run on it, and what new OS apps are available? That DocsToGo will be ready is a boon.
All that aside, I'd probably be happier with my folding Bluetooth keyboard and a TX with a Japanese-friendly Unicode-supporting Linux OS.
Of course, were Apple to release a very similar machine, the Appleo, I'm afraid I'd go with that instead.
RE: Note to Palm
Yeah, the same sh*t was said about the Nokia Anti-Internet Tablets.
People who don't know at least the minimal history of that device are unqualified to speak about the Flopeo.
Oh, and Intel has their MIDs coming out. Those will flop too, but at least they aren't an outright *embarrassment* like the Flopeo.
Can't see Treo screen? This is cheaper
RE: Can't see Treo screen? This is cheaper
heh..who said LifeDrive II ?
everything we wish to be...palm refuse what we want!!!
Foleo!!!, whos care about Foleo
Treo's don't need Companions!
RE: Treo's don't need Companions!
RE: Treo's don't need Companions!
RE: Treo's don't need Companions!
Sorry to reiterate - but this device is stupid. Too large to fit into a pocket, not a laptop, too little battery life.
I'll keep my treo as long as it lasts, because I need something that will sync with anything other than Outlook.
But with syncml incorporated even into dinky little dumbphones, so small and cheap.. who knows? Maybe I am getting older, and wishing for a simpler life.
IIIx -> T|T -> Treo650
What's next?
RE: What's next?
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: What's next?
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P
RE: What's next?
hello people.
seriously.
(take for example, the PS3. if everybody saw it as the cheapest Blu-Ray movie player, instead of the most expensive games console, it probably would have been a runaway success!)
that's how I see things. you think I'm wrong? that's the way you see things.
RE: hello people.
-------------------------------
http://www.pocketfactory.com
http://www.elitistsnob.com
RE: hello people.
neither is special. heck, both are very close to the simplest products in their respective categories. but both have huge marketing behind them, and are percieved to be perfect (well, the iPod anyway, everyone knows windows bites, but thinks they have no choice and must keep using only windows)
(and for the record, everyone knows that hitler was a fruitcake)
RE: hello people.
Palm III->Palm Vx->Palm m505->Palm m515->Tungsten T->Tapwave Zodiac II->Treo 700p
RE: hello people.
Considering their dismal support of their "one trick pony" Treo 700p (EOL'ing it and forcing people to re-purchase it in the form of the Treo 755 to get functional bluetooth headsets) it appear that Palm is spread too thin to convince me they will act otherwise if I dropped half-a-thou on this gimmick. No early adoption for me, thank you very much.
RE: hello people.
Yeah, they said the same thing about the Nokia Anti-Net Tabs. Big fekkin success those have been!
Cool Factor?
Palm has gone off on a tangent and wasted their lmited resources on a dead end approach -- very disappointing. Somebody should take them out of their misery before it gets worse.
David
RE: Cool Factor?
PDA's Past and Present:
Palm - IIIxe, Vx, M500, M505, Tungsten T, TX
Handspring - Edge, Platinum, Deluxe
Sony - SJ22
Apple - MP110, MP2000, MP2100
RE: Cool Factor?
Tungsten T --> Palm TX --> Foleo?? (If it turns out to be a good multimedia platform??)
RE: Cool Factor?
It doesn't replace a laptop, or a phone (or a PDA for that matter). Thus you have an additional device that doesn't fit in your pocket. If you're going to put it in a laptop bag then why not bring the laptop? What do you put it in? Some sort of purse / satchel? ... not cool.
In addition, I can't see how a mobile device is supplimented by a much bigger device. The only reason mobile/cell phones are small is to make them portable. This device, however slim it is, makes mobile phones less portable if used as a companion. Otherwise, it it's intended as a 'back-to-base' docking station type thing, I'd take my laptop as a preferred 'companion' device any day.
RE: Cool Factor?
I predict a bull market for the "hip" Fooleo fannypacks!! Rock on, Palm... awesome!
I want to try it!
There's a lot of pretty stupid people suggesting this has been done before.
Please, someone, any of you, just one dumb punk-a$$ wince apologist among you: please post a link to a 2.5 lb laptop with wifi and bluetooth for $500. :)
I'd love to see it. Let alone one with instant-on, and an open linux API.
No really, quit the FUD yapping, and post the link. :)
The price-point is excellent, and for 5 hours of run time? This will do nicely.
Thanks Jeff.
No, REALLY: quit the FUD yapping, and post the link. :)
Couldn't find one? Ahh... I thought so. :)
------
"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."
RE: I want to try it!
Go here to get a real laptop for an extra $28.00
http://www.mwave.com/mwave/Viewproduct.asp?ST=0.&PID=all&DPDID=NB&Page=1
Or better yet save $50 and get this one:
http://tinyurl.com/23a4c3
Heck with that $50 you can buy an extra battery just in case you think you are actually going to use that little piece of Palm crap for more than 2.5 hours.
My personal favorite is to go to the Apple store and spend a little more to get a MacBook. Hell if your thinking of buying one of these stupid things you're over half way there.
Let me know if there is anything else you are too lazy to lookup and I'll be glad to do it for you.
For $150 - $200 this is a great product, but for $500 you are a tool of Palm to think this is a good thing.
Bye bye Palm, if you think this is an engineering breakthrough you are done.
All of a sudden that $600 iPhone looks like the deal of the century.
RE: I want to try it!
http://Tapland.com
- Tapwave Zodiac News, Reviews, & Discussion -
RE: I want to try it!
RE: I want to try it!
Someone posted links to a second-hand online store that sold giant obsolete laptops in the $500-600 range. Let's see:
Folio: 10.6" x 6.7" x 0.9" @ 2.4 lbs (64 cu in)
ThinkPad X31: 10.7" x 8.8" x 1.2" @ 3.6 lbs (113 cu in) <-- it's a brick
Aspire 3050: 13.4" x 9.9" x 1.4" @ 5.3 lbs (185 cu in) <-- you don't get it
Lenovo C200: [f@cking huge] @ 6.1 lbs <-- that's just plain dumb :)
I think you guys are missing the point. It's not a replacement for the giant laptop with 3 hour battery life you currently lug around.
It's a *new* idea. You're going to have to think outside the box on this one. Yes, it won't play counterstrike. But it's not for fragging, duh. It's for gettng onto gmail, google office, etc, to get stuff done without dragging a bunch of flaky legacy crud around with you. :)
------
"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."
RE: I want to try it!
I have something that does that. It's a few more dollars but can be subsidized, fits in my front pocket - it's called a "Treo."
RE: I want to try it!
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Home
Sure, you can't buy it (yet), I am sure it will come in some form to our market. It lacks bluetooth, but there is plenty more to like, for most likely half the price.
It won't sync with your phone either. But honestly you shouldn't care, mostly if you use gmail....
RE: I want to try it!
Nothing like it you say.... Then how about this?
http://tinyurl.com/23vsr7
Palm Vx (a classic) -> Palm 505 (*yawn*) -> Dell Axim (slooow...) -> Palm TE (great) -> Qtek 9090 (great idea, lousy platform) -> Nokia 6630 (a toy) -> iMate SP3i (not bad) -> Nokia 9300 (can't sync notes!!) -> Treo 650 (awesome) -> hw6915 (almost perfect)
RE: I want to try it!
http://tinyurl.com/yqt9gh
Warning!!
If you [unfortunately] happen to own a Flopeo you can't watch the clip as it can't handle YouTube!
Palm Vx (a classic) -> Palm 505 (*yawn*) -> Dell Axim (slooow...) -> Palm TE (great) -> Qtek 9090 (great idea, lousy platform) -> Nokia 6630 (a toy) -> iMate SP3i (not bad) -> Nokia 9300 (can't sync notes!!) -> Treo 650 (awesome) -> hw6915 (almost perfect)
RE: I want to try it!
Yup, Jeff Hawkins has definitely lost it. It must be frustrating to peak so early...
RE: I want to try it!
Huh?
Would you care to expand on that....?
Palm Vx (a classic) -> Palm 505 (*yawn*) -> Dell Axim (slooow...) -> Palm TE (great) -> Qtek 9090 (great idea, lousy platform) -> Nokia 6630 (a toy) -> iMate SP3i (not bad) -> Nokia 9300 (can't sync notes!!) -> Treo 650 (awesome) -> hw6915 (almost perfect)
RE: I want to try it!
YouTube link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IALqu7EKUTw
Also:
http://tinyurl.com/36n4jb
http://tinyurl.com/384l7h
Enjoy your Opera crashes on your Flopeo, you ignoramus.
http://tinyurl.com/32k68r
RE: I want to try it!
RE: I want to try it!
It reeks of condescension. Who wants to buy a product aimed at stupid people? -- not even stupid people do!
Ed Colligan's motto once was, Delight the customer.
Today it seems to be, Insult the customer.
RE: I want to try it!
Never has been one. Never will be. No link available because links don't go to Dr. O's universe where the foleo will be a huge succes......whatever universe that is.
My dad could use this
My father currently has a basic cellphone, but wants to get a Treo to check his email. On top of that, paired with the Foleo, he could read a lot more and answer wherever he is without needing a big bulky laptop that takes forever to boot.
This isn't for the enthusiast. It's for the aging business men who want a big screen for their bad eyes.
I don't think you understand the gravity of the situation. We're in space.
RE: My dad could use this
PDA's Past and Present:
Palm - IIIxe, Vx, M500, M505, Tungsten T, TX
Handspring - Edge, Platinum, Deluxe
Sony - SJ22
Apple - MP110, MP2000, MP2100
RE: My dad could use this
-- http://www.fiftiesweb.com/tv/captain-kangaroo-1.jpg
RE: My dad could use this
Think of it as a disability PDA (until roll-up display and retinal projectors become affordable, instead of sci-fi props.)
RE: My dad could use this
PDA's Past and Present:
Palm - IIIxe, Vx, M500, M505, Tungsten T, TX
Handspring - Edge, Platinum, Deluxe
Sony - SJ22
Apple - MP110, MP2000, MP2100
RE: My dad could use this
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P
RE: My dad could use this
http://Tapland.com
- Tapwave Zodiac News, Reviews, & Discussion -
RE: My dad could use this
PDA's Past and Present:
Palm - IIIxe, Vx, M500, M505, Tungsten T, TX
Handspring - Edge, Platinum, Deluxe
Sony - SJ22
Apple - MP110, MP2000, MP2100
RE: My dad could use this
I wanted to get my comupter-illiterate grandfather on the internet for years, but he lived in a different country, and the PC is just so clunky, there was no way he would be able to surf the web and use email reliably without a system admin to support him.
Teaching him the system administration skills necessary to keep a windows box running was out of the question: defragging, backups, firewall config, registry maintenance, anti-virus, software updates, etc, etc, ad nauseam -- all of that bizarre legacy stuff that somehow windows users just accept as "normal", even in Vista. Maybe he could have learned the Mac. I'm not a mac guy, so it really wasn't an option.
I wanted a pc-like device that would just work. Turn on. Surf. Email. Off.
No system administration.
No work incurred by the user due solely to sloppy microsoft development.
No defects-by-design intended to make the average user throw away a PC after a year or two and buy a new one, just because the windows crud had slowed the thing to a crawl.
I don't know how user-friendly and reliable the Folio will turn out to be.
But maybe it is that device. :)
------
"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."
RE: My dad could use this
RE: My dad could use this
He's also an adept RVer, and would love to stay in touch with his family (other than by phone) when he travels all across America.
So if this Foleo has some basic (free, he's also a bit cheap loll) apps that let him view,import and export some pics, do email and basic browsing WITH EASY SETUP, I could easily imagine him getting by with a so simple computer. I think most people underestimates the value of the On/Off (with no booting, driver loading, or BIOS setup) switch.
The question still remains though, is there enough people for that market ?? AlphaSmart ran out of business using a simple Palm OS basic laptop... but it wasn't colour...
But it won't get awarded as the "Product of the Year" for sure, IPhone has that canned since January...
Stunned
Ok - so I certainly get the idea of the phone being the connectivity + storage that also happens to provide mobile oriented input / output BUT allows other I/O so that it can scale all the way up to be your desktop if thats what you want. The main idea is that you have only one point of connectivity (thus only one point to pay for..) and one central place to store everything. Not sure if that really would work or be accepted - but I get it and see the possibilty.
What we have here however, is a fuzzy interpretation of how that should happen.
For that concept to work, it should be implemented in 1 of 2 ways:
- the mobile device is also THE OS. The Foleo should be a purely remote client. The OS must be capable of scaling the screen output accordingly and should ideally be designed from the ground up to function this way so that 3rd party development considers this from the start. The opportunity to do so would happen when Palm releases its new Linux mobile Palm OS thing.
...or
- Both the smartphone and the Foleo have an IDENTICAL OS and then the Foleo is just remotely accessing the storage and connectivity. The built in apps must be the same apps on the device (though extending their UI capabilities accordingly depending on the device they are running on) and - of course - the OS used by both would be a new Linux Palm OS with application development emphazing this 'scaling of UI' approach from the very beginning. Apps on both would thus treat all application data the same.
In either approach (OS on the phone - or - OS on the phone AND the Foleo), the technology has to be polished and it goes without saying (in the year 2007 for gods-sakes...) that the OS should come with a media player that plays everything you can throw at it as well as all of the built in PIM and Office compatible apps - ALL out of the box!
This thing does neither and doesn't know what the h@ll it wants to be. it gets the basic idea right about the future of computing - but lacks the clarity of vision for how that should happen.
One last thing: there are those that will point out that the future of computing really should mean that all of your storage is online (i.e. some service provider server) and not on either device. I think it will always be a combo of online storage and personal, physical storage device. Users will always cling to local storage becuase of privacy concerns.
how much storage
RE: how much storage
Tungsten T --> Palm TX --> Foleo?? (If it turns out to be a good multimedia platform??)
RE: how much storage
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P
RE: how much storage
RE: how much storage
Interesting side bit is that it auto-saves everything, type up a quick doc close the lid and it's saved, no need to tell it to save or anything else.
RE: how much storage
I am interested, but....
1. PIM compatibility. How can the Palm PIM functions not be ported over?
2. A good note taking application, ie. Evernotes ported to Palm.
3. The ability to run all the apps already on the Treo, even if only in a 320 x 480 emulator on the foleo.
4. 2.5 lbs seem heavy for what's there. Can they cut it back to 1 to 1.5 lbs?
5. Since it's linux, can we have OpenOffice integration?
I would definitely be interested in avoiding a laptop and making my Treo my travelling device. I would pay the $500 if it does the above, I don't think any of that is out of line.
Mike
RE: I am interested, but....
Seems to me that Palm did their market research on this one with the same geniuses that decided that the 16-22MB of "RAM" in the Treo 650 would be plenty, and that MiniSD and removing the reset hole was a brilliant move. Good luck, Palm.
Wanted a new Palm PDA
Gary
www.talestuff.com
Tech Center Labs
RE: Wanted a new Palm PDA
That is a VERY wise move, sir.
I HIGHLY encourage ALL Palm OS users (not just PDA users) to go out NOW and pick up a TX while they are still readily and affordably available.
The TX continues to be a surprisingly fine device (my 1st TX is ~20 months old and the battery and digitizer are still going strong), especially if you get a good case, pack of screen protectors, a Tech Center Labs bud microphone, and a 4gb SD card for it.
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P
RE: Wanted a new Palm PDA
rpa
RE: Wanted a new Palm PDA
I'm guessing that this foleo is nothing like what Jeff envisioned, just like Numenta's NuPic seems to be drifting way off base compared to his 'ON Intelligence' theories.
I'll keep hoping for the TX2 and work on a vibes for the TX in the meantime :-)
Gary
TaleStuff.com
Tech Center Labs
RE: Wanted a new Palm PDA
I actually think that Folio might be cool as a companion for the LD. with the built in WiFi and all that storage along with Docs to Go, you've got the makings of a solid writer's tool. Send in reports from the field etc. Couple of third party time reporting apps, and web based apps and you might have something.
Like everyone else I think that $500 is about $250 to much, but there is always an early adopters tax. IF they sell enough of these things, I'm sure that V2.0 will work out any bugs and limitations.
Hopefully, this was partially and excuse to get the Linux team up to speed and built out the new OS. If we're lucky (crosses fingers) we'll have the new OS on a Treo by the end of the year (I'm not putting money on it tho).
RE: Wanted a new Palm PDA
http://tinyurl.com/2kkwg8
Mine is a LifeFlash, but you guys aren't all freaky about sex-change stuff like that, right?
Vampire Lestat. My take on the Foleo.
I watched Mr. Hawkins presentation.
First off, Hawking's has a lovable aura that makes you want to go up and hug him for no reason other than him being what appears to be a fundamentally good person.
Foleo
Foleo
Foleo
Foleo
Because of who Mr. Hawkins is, because of his genius, because of his good intentions, I will be politically correct and refrain from excessive language. Nor do I plan on investing much energy on commenting the Foleo.
The Foleo will not sell.
Why?
- XP laptops are established. Suspend mode exists. Small form factors exist.
- YouTube does not work. Video capability limited. No OLED.
- Consumers are seeking simplification through 1 home laptop, and 1 pocket device (cell, mp3, pim).
- Full size BT/IR portable keybs for PDAs exist.
- Consumers are seeking a PDA that maximizes visibility through
a) reduction of frame thickness around screen.
b) OLED
c) SuperHires
d) iPhone style screen that utilizes 100% of area for viewing.
e) software solution that allows users to tap/hold and auto-zoom on areas of interest e.g., on a web page.
- No touchscreen. Graffiti allows blind writing. Stylus brings hand precision control.
I could go on, but I promised myself I would be succinct.
I hope Ed Colligan will not make Mr. Hawkins irrelevant at Palm Inc. following any failure of this new product line. Jeff founded Palm and deserves respect.
I wish Mr. Hawkins my sincere best wishes in other projects. I am looking forward to his contributions in the Numenta AI field.
Vamp
RE: Vampire Lestat. My take on the Foleo.
"Worldwide Shipments of Handhelds Up Almost 40 Percent"
http://www.brighthand.com/default.asp?newsID=13054
This adds evidence to my long standing claim that there is no way in hell that PDA and mobile computing does not have a big market and guaranteed sustained future growth. It is all about product design and software solutions.
Palm has a choice at this point in time, either listen to the fans for guidance (because the designers at Palm obviously need support/inspiration) or else leave other companies capitalize themselves and drive mobile computing their way.
RE: Vampire Lestat. My take on the Foleo.
For Christ sake...Dell has pulled out. You can't have growth in a market where players are exiting the field.
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http://www.pocketfactory.com
http://www.elitistsnob.com
Some New Foleo Pictures
Here's live shot of the Foleo with a Treo:
http://www.palminfocenter.com/ss.asp?f=foleo-live-1-L.jpg
And a shot with a Nokia N800 to show the size difference:
http://www.palminfocenter.com/ss.asp?f=foleo-live-10-L.jpg
What the folio needs
I don't have issue with the size if it was any smaller it would eat into Palm's currently falling PDA sales.
Battery life is nowhere near long enough (some ULV laptops clame 7-8hrs) it should be able to last an intire work day (but I suppose thats not a real problem since it'll be using a Treo for a modem and I doubt a Treo could last much longer any way[Sorry im a T|X owner I couldn't help myself]). Don't forget 5hrs is a maximum figure.
It should be a tablet. It's a Palm for Petes sake hand writing rercognition is a must.
Why the f!@# is there a nipple? Even ThinkPads finaly pissed those off now that Leverno has taken over. Touch screen people.
I think is almost a good starting point.
Hopefully Palm will expand to a larger range with more features quickly.
I could possubly be a good device if some of the great Linux programs are ported like OpenOffice.
One of the uses for this device that every one seems to be over looking is paring it with other phones other than the Treo. This would alow you to have a small candy bar phone and a better web experience than a Treo. Palm does plan to support as many phones as posible.
Finaly the good coming out of all of this is this new PLinux will filter down threw the range. Lets hope we'll see a T|X2 and a Treo800 running PLinux within 12 months.
Just one more thing Palm you idiots you put the Palm symble around the wrong way on the lid when you have it open Palm is upside down.
How good are cargo pants, they're a gadget lovers best friend.
Some Potential...
I've got a keyboard for my Palm TX, but I'd rather use this, given the choice. Typing what you want on a big screen with a decent keyboard, and then hitting a button, beats the hell out of typing on the Palm wireless keyboard using the (relatively) tiny screen on the Palm.
And I don't think a regular notebook (even a subnotebook) really covers the same ground. You've got both the instant-on feature and the way the Foleo updates the Palm (which sounds a lot faster than your average Hotsync).
The weakness, in my mind, is that this thing is pretty underpowered if it's not paired with a PDA or smartphone. On its own, it's not much more than an oversized wifi-enabled PDA.
RE: Some Potential...
No, it's not even that. The 4 core PIMs aren't in it.
RE: Some Potential...
The 4 core PIMs aren't in it.
Yet. I have a feeling that could change by release time.
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog
Just What I Wanted . . . Sorta, Kinda
http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/9411/
and now that it's here, it's -- well -- it's a step in the right direction, at least.
Every computer and phone maker is converging like a school of sharks on the optimal mobile computer; something that leverages available wifi and cellular, gives the user
fast access to email, web, and basic documents, and finds the legendary optimal balance, of which the prophets have long spoke, between size, weight, portability and screen, keyboard and usability. Now we've got Palm's attempt at this.
Has it been done before? Of course, this has been a holy grail of computing long before BG put forth his UMPC concept, which was a typically lame Windows 1.0 version. But MS isn't sitting still, and neither is anybody else.
Does it have a market? No, according to those who prefer a larger, more capable device like a laptop, or a smaller smartphone. But those who say absolutely no one will buy a product like this are just substituting their computing needs for the general public's, and we've heard enough posts already from people who could really use:
1. Instant on and off (with save) and more battery life than current UMPCs,
2. Near full-size keyboard and screen, and
3. Cheaper than other similar new, under warranty, supported products(yeah, I know Palm's product support sucks, but many people are cautious about buying used laptops and such, so any support is a factor)
to know that there is, in fact, a market for a device like this. Nobody knows how big it will be because it's an emerging market, same as PDAs and smartphones were in their day.
Could it be better? Hell yes, potential deal breakers at this point include lack of flash video support, uncertain media capability in general, inclusion of Palm PIM apps, and less-than-impressive processor, battery life, and price.
But I've used older CE devices like the Thinkpad z50, and I'm writing this on an ultraportable IBM X30, and no, they're not as good as the Foleo -- in certain respects. We can only hope the final product will show some improvements over the specs shown so far, but first generation UMPCs also have glaring shortcomings, and yet manufacturers are still crankin' 'em out.
Will it "save" Palm? Hardly. But after begging for new hardware and a new PalmOS for years, we're actually getting it (I, too, hope the Foleo OS and other hardware improvements appear in other form factors). Let's see how the market responds.
Foleo? Slightly ridiculous.
Flopeo? Shortsighted -- probably.
Call it the Maybeo?
Professional Amateur
You've all been breathing your own exhaust for too long
I'm not going to advance an argument at this time, but just wanted to go on record by saying that I think this product does have a market, that it's almost impossible to gauge the size of that market by what you see here or really anywhere on the web, and that the Foleo's market is going to increase steadily over time, both because of the way people will be using their mobile phones in the coming years and the way Foleo itself will evolve.
This is the Pilot 1000 of the Foleo product line. Hawkins couldn't find any investors for that product, if you'll recall.
One thing you have to say about Hawkins: he's not a guy who sees the percentage in following the crowd.
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: You've all been breathing your own exhaust for too long
You will keep us up to date when divorce papers are filed?
RE: You've all been breathing your own exhaust for too long
PDA's Past and Present:
Palm - IIIxe, Vx, M500, M505, Tungsten T, TX
Handspring - Edge, Platinum, Deluxe
Sony - SJ22
Apple - MP110, MP2000, MP2100
RE: You've all been breathing your own exhaust for too long
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http://www.pocketfactory.com
http://www.elitistsnob.com
RE: You've all been breathing your own exhaust for too long
Ivan
RE: You've all been breathing your own exhaust for too long
I believe he suggested (if not outright stated) that he consults or something (develops?) for something PALM-ish, if not for PALM itself.
Alas, the search function of PalmInfocenter is either so broken or I am too braindead to know how to use it properly to search for his statement(s) to that effect.
RE: You've all been breathing your own exhaust for too long
Don't get me wrong: I think there are a number of miscues and problems with the Foleo as it was presented yesterday, and I'm not sure it's a device that I personally would find much use for except as a hacker playground (which could be fun). It may very well fail as a product for any number of reasons. But I don't think the negativity here or on the rest of the web accurately reflects the market opportunity. Nor do I think this group will ever understand why this is the case. ;-)
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: You've all been breathing your own exhaust for too long
But, in any case, I stand corrected!
RE: You've all been breathing your own exhaust for too long
Everyone copy that quote.
And them stuff it down his yap later this year.
Hey you. You got the Linux OS part right, but it remains to be seen how MUCH Linux is actually in that Flopeo and if that Flopeo OS will ever migrate to hardware people here -- and in the real larger world -- actually want to buy (like stuff that will fit in everyday *pockets*). Don't think because you got Linux right you're suddenly Criswell.
RE: You've all been breathing your own exhaust for too long
But I don't think the negativity here or on the rest of the web accurately reflects the market opportunity.
It does because that largely is Foleo's market; people who work/live/play in a mobile connected world. And Foleo isn't well suited for the mobile world. It requires a symbiotically joined Smartphone in order to function - it is literally a one or two-trick pony capable of mere basic email and web browsing (only just) - and it is too expensive, competing in the same price tier with notebook PCs. Now, we can play the Helio style "don't call it a phone, don't call us a phone company" marketing slogan all we want, but like it or not this device will be pitted directly against notebook PCs, and there is no way consumers or business customers are going to choose this device over a PC portable.
This product is so ill conceived and out of sync (excuse the pun) with today's mobile computing market, it is as if Palm has literally been living in a time capsule for the past decade. This device is 8-10 years too late to market. Every feature it offers is superiorly matched by a PC notebook of the same price, except for its size - and I see that as a shortcoming (small keyboard). That fact is going to become even more apparent in Q3 when the first MacBooks and notebook PCs with all Flash memory (no HD or moving parts) begin shipping.
What's even more disturbing is that Foleo even looks like something from 1999, right down to its ugly pale gray plastic keyboard, rippled faceplate, and hideous rubber footpads surrounding the display - all design elements right out of 1999. I had to restrain myself from laughter during the product video where Hawkins describes Foleo design as "beautiful" and "elegant". Somehow I don't think Jeff gets out very much, or he has horrible taste in design. The more I see this product and listen to him hype it, the more I conclude that it's time for Jeff to bow out gracefully and retire from mobile computing and product development in general. He has really lost his edge, and this device illustrates that fact.
Factor that with the fact this device isn't innovative at all. Palm says that it is "advancing mobile computing" but this device offers nothing new. If anything it retards to mobile experience by stripping out everything that makes a mobile computer useful. Palm's misplaced logic is that this device is for users who don't need the complexity of a laptop. The flaw here is that anyone who doesn't need or want a laptop won't want this product either, nor a Smartphone. I actually believe this product might fare better if Palm positioned this product for third world markets like Asia and Africa, where it would serve alongside OLPC.
Mixed views on new products are nothing new where Palm or any tech company is concerned, but this is the first time I can recall such universal consensus or utter unanimity in rejection. Reading every tech blog, comments echoed identical sentiments and views as what I have posted above. On one had I welcome the fact that Palm is finally trying something new, unfortunately it's only new for Palm, not the industry.
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http://www.pocketfactory.com
http://www.elitistsnob.com
RE: You've all been breathing your own exhaust for too long
Like I said before, I'm not here to make an argument (yet). I'm withholding judgment at least until I see where Foleo is at launch time and get my hands on one.
But I did want to say one thing: someone as fond of his own words as you are is not generally a person who has good insight into other people--especially, ones whose experiences (specifically with computers) differ from his own. I've also noticed that once you've latched onto an idea you're fond of, you aren't one to look around much for counterfactuals. Perhaps you may recall that we've been down this road before? I hasten to add that I doubt I'm any better than you are on either of these counts--maybe just a little more self-aware that I'm actually a total blow-hard ;-)
That being the case, I'm going to wait and watch on this Foleo thing because I have a feeling something good may yet come of it. Palm has some cards they could play now. Meanwhile, you're the one with the receptive audience, so I'll get out of your way and let you enjoy yourself!
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: You've all been breathing your own exhaust for too long
Today I've been driving around Switzerland and had plenty of time to ponder the destiny of the foolio. In its current state the device seems just too limited. Integration with the smartphone is just for email and that alone is not enough to justify its existence. As an internet appliance it is not bad, but is probably oversized and underpowered (no flash videos).
If palm is serious about introducing a new paradigm (ie a device acting as a terminal of the phone) they need to go the whole way. That is:
* Full integration of PIM. User of foolio should be able to access and update the smartphone pim records (either by synchronization o direct access).
Right now, if I need to create an appointment based on the information I got from an email, I have to leave the foolio and reach for the Treo, reopen VersaMail, look the right message and copy the information to the datebook. That is moronic, to say the least.
* Terminal services for the smartphone. Foolio user should be able to operate on smartphone programs as if it were in his hands, much like other remote control programs do. Most Palm (and win) programs would be displayed at the phone (treo) screen resolution, but further iterations of both the OS and the programs might enable virtual screens and support the full foolio resolution. VNC on linux already does that.
(think: smartphone with palmos on linux <=> foolio with linux)
* Oh, make it a tablet with a turning screen.
That kind of device may have some hope of success.
On the OS side, I think this is basically a preview of where the PalmOs on Linux is going. I don't see Palm supporting two different forks, especially a for a product they admit it's not going to sell well at the beginning. It will be interesting to evaluate the quality of the SDK when it is available.
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Hey Admin: Why do we have to keep two profiles?
RE: You've all been breathing your own exhaust for too long
:) Looks around for bricks from mikecane and harsh words from Foo Fighter :)
Jah
RE: You've all been breathing your own exhaust for too long
RE: You've all been breathing your own exhaust for too long
No, I won't argue with that need. But the Flopeo won't do it. It just won't.
I leave it up to others to present the thoughtful lists of how deficient the device is and will be in actual use. I have no time to do so because it's just so damned *obvious* to me and explicating list-wise makes me feel like a schoolmarm talking to wee kiddies who know nothing. (We may disagree, but it's only certain people here I've called eejits outright.)
RE: You've all been breathing your own exhaust for too long
You sure love to hear yourself talk, don't you, Foo?
No more than you, dear.
someone as fond of his own words as you are is not generally a person who has good insight into other people--especially, ones whose experiences (specifically with computers) differ from his own. I've also noticed that once you've latched onto an idea you're fond of, you aren't one to look around much for counterfactuals. Perhaps you may recall that we've been down this road before?
See, it's that sort of retort that earns you the nickname "Beersie" with distinction. When you can't attack or counter an argument you substitute by attacking the person making the argument. A tactless way to shift the focus away from valid points that you can't counter.
I hasten to add that I doubt I'm any better than you are on either of these counts--maybe just a little more self-aware that I'm actually a total blow-hard ;-)
No, you're not a blowhard. You are however someone with an agenda that I am not alone in recognizing. You're slip is showing, David. And I see a bright round orange logo on its label.
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http://www.pocketfactory.com
http://www.elitistsnob.com
RE: You've all been breathing your own exhaust for too long
If you're looking for a little more of an argument, you can find a few thoughts here: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/9437/#132813
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: You've all been breathing your own exhaust for too long
i was wondering when our favorite palm apologist was going to show his true colors.
Beersy, it's time for you to stop ASTROTURFING. Now.
I hope it used plenty of lube with you, Beersy.
I've listened in astonishment to my wife go on about how she wants a Foleo. (I've not been able to convince her to use a Windows or Mac laptop for years.) And I've considered the possible target markets for this device. (If you're reading this, you aren't in it.)
What utter B.S.
Please explain to us why your timid little wifey would be "frightened" of a big bad Fujitsu P1610 that was configured with the most basic of applications. I realize she only gets exposed to small (finger-sized) objects except when you're away, but this FOOLeo® is really not so simple as to be worth the restrictions imposed by its primitive OS and hardware + absent applications. If you were being honest you'd admit that the FOOLeo® niche is vanishingly small. Anyone willing to carry a device that large with such a limited OS and limited set of features would be a FOOL to not get a Real Windows or Mac laptop instead. Does your wife carry a Treo? What the F does she do that makes the FOOLeo® a sensible solution? Seriously, Beersy - you're flailing around in full Michael Mace apologist mode here. Get a grip on yourself. Your posts show how untrustworthy you really are. I think you need to disclose whether or not you are a a member of Palm's testing team, are in conversation with Palm employees and if you have received any hardware, software and or "gifts" from Palm over the years.
I'm not going to advance an argument at this time, but just wanted to go on record by saying that I think this product does have a market, that it's almost impossible to gauge the size of that market by what you see here or really anywhere on the web, and that the Foleo's market is going to increase steadily over time, both because of the way people will be using their mobile phones in the coming years and the way Foleo itself will evolve.
That's one of the weakest marketing-speak attempts to SPIN a sh!tty product I've seen in a while, Beersy. Congratulations. I'm planning on selling a device made of TVoR feces called the Sh!tty-o. "I'm not going to advance an argument at this time, but just wanted to go on record by saying that I think this product does have a market, that it's almost impossible to gauge the size of that market by what you see here or really anywhere on the web, and that the Sh!tty-o's market is going to increase steadily over time, both because of the way people will be using their mobile phones in the coming years and the way Sh!tty-o itself will evolve."
This is the Pilot 1000 of the Foleo product line. Hawkins couldn't find any investors for that product, if you'll recall.
No, this is not analogous to the Pilot 1000. The Pilot 1000 was a product that actually filled a niche that was unexploited at the time. The FOOLeo® is competing against ESTABLISHED products that are better, faster, smarter, better-sized, better-focused. It's going to be massacred by small Real Windows laptops, UMPC, traditional PDAs, smartphones, dumbphones and the iPhone. What happens if Apple builds in proper syncing with desktop and web-based PIM, email and media as well as bundling VNC, etc? Add a fold-up ThinkOutside-tyle Bluetooth keyboard and see how many potential FOOLeo® customers Palm has left willing to buy its drab hunk of cheap-looking plastic (now we know what happened to HandEra's industrial design team - nice to see them working again...).
One thing you have to say about Hawkins: he's not a guy who sees the percentage in following the crowd.
Hawkins' vision was crippled by Palm's inability to execute and the company's need to get something (ANYTHING) to market. He got away with crappy specs with the Pilot 1000 and Treo 600 because those products nailed the form factor and feature needs of their respective niches. This time we get the equivalent of a clamshell AlphaSmart Dana running PalmLinux. In 2007. Wow. Impressive. Revolutionary. This will really draw a lot of customers in to Palm. Yeah. Right.
Enough Astroturfing, Beersy. You're pathetic.
TVoR
RE: You've all been breathing your own exhaust for too long
Oh my gut is dying!!!
RE: You've all been breathing your own exhaust for too long
Since you've long ago destroyed your credibility here and saved me the trouble, and since you are so far from the truth I think even you might have a chuckle over this, I will say the following:
I have never worked for Palm. And not only have I never received a gift, a free meal, or been welcomed into a beta program by Palm, I've never even been able to get their friggin "loaner program" to do it's job and lend me devices I need to test against for my customers. In the Fall I approached Palm about a client of mine that was looking to do the largest enterprise smartphone rollout I or anyone I know of has ever heard of. We're talking tens of thousands of Treos here. All I needed was a pre-release Treo 680 (just 3 weeks from the release) that I could use to demo a prototype of the application to executives at this company on hardware that demonstrated there was some sign of life within Palm. I knew they were available, but the loaner ordering site was broken. It always seems to be broken. Phone calls and emails? Unanswered. I finally found a regional salesperson who stood to gain from the deal (that itself was the result of a long string of emails and calls as far away as the UK). He lent me his personal Treo 680 for the presentation, three weeks after the debacle began and only one day before the demo. Luckily I didn't encounter any new bugs that I hadn't already fixed on the 650.
So, no. I've never received anything from Palm, least of all the standard service to developers that all of Palm's competitors gladly give to their developer communities. Believe me, I could go on with other stories. Suffice it to say that Palm's enterprise sales division, is, with one or two individual exceptions, deplorable.
Fortunately for Palm I am not a vindictive person. Lucky for you, too, as I could have had one of my minions squash you like a bug with a wave of my finger. ;-)
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: You've all been breathing your own exhaust for too long
[or, minimally, TRYING to sell 10s of thousands of copies...]
Okay, I'll sit on my hands now...
RE: You've all been breathing your own exhaust for too long
I'm sure Palm loves all the enthusiastic posts I've been making here about the Nokia N800 and E90. Hmmm, maybe that's why this month's check is late.... ;-)
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: You've all been breathing your own exhaust for too long
Not to defend him, but the answer is No.
The affiliation is money, period.
If he should actually *like* PalmOS is neither here nor there in the argument.
He's talking strictly business.
RE: You've all been breathing your own exhaust for too long
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: You've all been breathing your own exhaust for too long
Just hit your site. But it's for corporations, your stuff. I don't see end-user stuff for sale. As far as that concerns me, your company doesn't exist -- to me.
What's the reboot time?
Riiiiight.
I've got a sale going: Brooklyn Bridge, cheep!
RE: What's the reboot time?
I reboot my Palm TX in ~ 20-25 seconds, and that's a long time, for a PDA. I'd expect something similar from the Foleo. Compare that to the time it takes an XP machine to reboot.
And keep in mind that the reboot on a PDA or Foleo is going to be much less frequent than a laptop reboot/startup. The only time you're going to see that kind of reset time is when something goes wrong enough to require a reset. Given the limited duty (at least initially) of the Foleo, I don't think you'll be seeing many resets in the short run.
RE: What's the reboot time?
Oh for fek's sake. All you people who open your mouths and spew ignorant pipedreams of What Should Be instead of Just How Bad The Sh*t Actually Can Be.
I have a Nokia 770. Its reboot time is like a damned laptop.
Hello.
Welcome to Linux, fools.
RE: What's the reboot time?
RE: What's the reboot time?
It's already official: Foleo is a FLOP!
http://fakesteve.blogspot.com/2007/05/palms-foleo-doa.html
Given what we've been told, how is it possible...
If this device has been under development for YEARS, how can no software be available?
This is Linux, folks. Unix-clone Linux. Programmers all OVER the place. Developers all OVER the place.
No applications?
What!?
=========
Then again, if it was the "third line of business" that was under development all those years then maybe the efforts went into the LifeDrive instead.
But...weird...
Actually PalmLinux development started in the late 50s
Steve will be getting right to work on porting the PalmOS PIM apps to PalmLinux and will hopefully be able to build on the shards of tattered code left over from his late predecessor, Nigel's efforts.
TVoR
RE: Given what we've been told, how is it possible...
OK, you made me laugh with that one.
Jump the Shark
(palm IIIxe, Visor Prism, Sony 760, Zodiac-2, Nothing)
Oh look at what Jeff Kirvin says about Flopeo!
Foleo - Are you freaking kidding me?
http://www.jeffkirvin.net/2007/05/30/foleo-are-you-freaking-kidding-me/
>>>I already stopped carrying my Stowaway Sierra Bluetooth keyboard because it was too much of a hassle for the limited stuff I can do with mobile apps. The Foleo is at least twice the size of my Stowaway, and far more power hungry, yet it doesn’t offer much more. You get a bigger screen, sure, but you’re still limited on what you can do with it.
Ha! And I just started carrying the Palm Universal Wireless (IR) keyboard!
Please tell me I didn't just read that...
"When talking about future applications a Palm spokesperson remarked that possible ideas include a Calendar and a direct email program."
Please, please, PLEASE tell me I did not actually just read that...
Possible ideas include a calendar? Are you kidding me!? If there's two things I find cumbersom on my Treo 650, it's entereing information into the calendar and contacts from the unit itself.
Don't get me wrong, the process is about as streamlined as you can manage on a smart-phone, but I would kill to have a decent sized screen and keyboard to enter and edit those with.
I'm a die-hard Palm fan, but I'm also a realist. Despite its many (and obvious) shortcomings, I was actually intrigued by a light-weight, good battery life way to edit documents or deal with email on the go when I don't feel like toting either my desktop replacement notebook or tablet pc around.
The very concept that a Palm device wouldn't have the basic PIM functionalty in the accompanying smart phone just boggles my mind.
I want to like this device, but there's an underlying "suck" factor that I just can't overlook. Guess I'll have to wait and see what happens when it actually hits the market and the users and developers have a hack at it...
To put it in terms of other gadgets, so far the Folio seems like what would have happened if the iPhone had turned out to be a displayless iPod shuffle with a cell-phone keypad. (i.e. interesting... but ultimately disappointing)
RE: Please tell me I didn't just read that...
Gmail and Google Calendar should run fine in the browser though.
RE: Please tell me I didn't just read that...
they didn't want to duplicate the "good" job the smartphone calendar already does
Bizarre thing to say. Luckily, that's something that a third party will fix right quick.
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: Please tell me I didn't just read that...
ROTFLMAO.
Right. Well, I guess for people who do indeed have Treos and can get have connectivity anywhere, it won't matter. But WiFi isn't ubiquitous. Believe me, my Nokia 700 experience has shown me that even when there *is* a signal, it's no guarantee you can etherjack it (ie, that it is open for all to use or that the signal is strong enough to make a real connection). So basically if you can't connect, you got nada for Calendar.
RE: Please tell me I didn't just read that...
Yeah, riiiight. And what PIMs are people running on their Nokia Anti-Net Tabs?
RE: Please tell me I didn't just read that...
Hawkins later hinted there already are 10-12 3rd party apps in development that will be ready when it ships.
RE: Please tell me I didn't just read that...
But, really, he did the worst damage himself by admitting YouTube is a no-go and that he wished it ALREADY had a faster CPU (the speed of which we don't even yet know, do we?). It's obsolete on the spot.
RE: Please tell me I didn't just read that...
More power is obviously always better, but could someone please explain to me why YouTube is now considered such a must-have application? (I'd even be interested in hearing theories as to why Hawking thinks so.) I mean, I could understand if the thing couldn't handle AJAX how that would be a problem, but Flash video, on what's geared towards a [i]work[/i] device?!
RE: Please tell me I didn't just read that...
There's a big market beyond the pro-sumer profile, and that market is badly served by MS Windows laptops, even though you can get some models at a similar price, and some models at a similar size/weight, and some models with similar battery life (though generally not all together, and usually not even 2 out of 3).
It also might be small enough to use on an airplane, though that's one of the areas where ability to play video would be important.
RE: Please tell me I didn't just read that...
Ryan @ 5/31/2007 4:13:38 PM
I asked specifically why there was no calendar application included and the response was, they didn't want to duplicate the "good" job the smartphone calendar already does.
Gmail and Google Calendar should run fine in the browser though.
Translation: "We haven't yet figured out how to sync the PIM data between the Treo and the FOOLeo®. We may add it later if we're able to hire someone that knows how to code this kind of stuff, or maybe we'll wait to see if some 17 year Russian kid named Dmitri can code a solution over his lunchtime instead."
SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN ...
Be careful out there, kiddies. Don't step in the apologies.
TVoR
RE: Please tell me I didn't just read that...
Hawkins later hinted there already are 10-12 3rd party apps in development that will be ready when it ships.
12 PalmLinux FOOLeo® apps:
1) Mirror
2) Hello World
3) Hangman
4) Pong
5) My Mirror
6) My Mirror 1
7) My Mirror 2
8) My Mirror 3
9) My Mirror 4
10) My Mirror 5
11) My Mirror 6
12) My Mirror 7
RE: Please tell me I didn't just read that...
You intend to kill me today through my own laughter, don't you?
It's not true, that the truth will set you free.
The truth will make you die laughing!
RE: Please tell me I didn't just read that...
> the Treo and the FOOLeo...
Indeed - there is SOMETHING unusual about the "syncing" if what I minimally read (and what cervesas briefly commented on - I think it was him) is any clue - change "something" and the changes are automatically and IMMEDIATELY reflected on the "other" device. That is considerably more complex than mere "push a button to synchronize the devices".
And EASILY could require unique software running on BOTH devices (*) for each different type of application due to historical differences in how those applications handle data - documents, calendars, contacts, spreadsheets, etc.
There was a good reason minimal software was demoed with that Fooleo.
========
(*) So one question is - the Fooleo has a single visible application apparently - is THAT so the "other device" unique syncing software can be brought up simultaneously? That is, if I bring up a document on my Fooleo is a message sent off to the "other device" to bring up ITS special syncing software? Then when I switch the Fooleo to, I don't know, email (?) is another message sent to the "other device" to bring up ITS unique email syncing software?
Etc ad nauseum?
I've been guilty in the past with giving PALM way too much credit:
so may be doing it again but if the syncing is as "unusual" as it seems it certainly could explain the distinct lack of software even after supposed-years of development.
Michael Mace: Finally irrelevant?
http://mobileopportunity.blogspot.com/2007/05/palm-foleo-its-pc-dummy.html
>>>More to the point, Foleo is the most significant new consumer PC platform introduced in the US since the Macintosh. All you Linux heads who have been asking for a true consumer Linux PC, you finally got your wish.
>>>Wow. That's kind of cool. It may be crazy, but it's a craziness I like. Palm has reimagined the PC for the wireless Internet era, simplifying and stripping away everything they thought was no longer necessary.
Yeah, like, uh, YouTube, Flash video. And, oh yeah, MP3 playing. And Calendar. And Contacts.
They probably left out more too. But that's enough left out for most people not to want it.
Hmmm... doesn't the Nokia Anti-Internet Tablet leave out *less* than that? Shouldn't it, uh, be, you know, like, *selling*?
Hey, Mace, what about that Sony eVilla?
What about the Pepper Pad 3?
>>>Foleo is the most significant new consumer PC platform introduced in the US since the Macintosh.
What, the rest of us are just eejits, not to see that?
I don't think so.
Dismissed.
RE: Michael Mace: Finally irrelevant?
A little history is in order. Palm did *not* start out as a handheld/PDA device company. They started out as a software company for other handheld devices (from Apple and Tandy) which did not do well in the market. The Palm Pilot succeeded where these other companies failed by waiting until they could make a product smaller, cheaper, more connected, and with a polished user interface over a few key applications.
So an interesting question is whether the Folio is both sufficiently smaller *and* cheaper (plus easily networked and with a GUI on top of linux finally designed for humans instead of geeks) than the failed internet appliances. I'm not so sure. $100 or $200 cheaper and a few ounces lighter would have been better. The test will come when they hit the store shelves this fall.
RE: Michael Mace: Finally irrelevant?
Are you really trying to give ME a fekkin history lesson? ME?!!?
http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/3129/piloting-palm-book-review/
Foleo vids on YouTube
http://youtube.com/results?search_query=foleo&search=Search
If there's anything new there, put a post in reply to this.
RE: Foleo vids on YouTube
does hawkins come across as a likeable guy to you in this video?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=0RDWvGdUIhw
RE: Foleo vids on YouTube
Aw, lay off that. The camera is a harsh mistress and not everyone is a friggin actor. You expected DeNiro or Pacino? He's an engineer!
RE: Foleo vids on YouTube
Around "here" if you use the term "engineer" without having the professional certification behind that title you're breaking the law.
Honorary memberships don't count.
The idea's growing on me...
RE: The idea's growing on me...
The most common complaint seems to be that you can buy a $500 laptop (that weighs 3 times as much) or a 2.5 pound laptop (that costs 3 times as much). But it's still a fragile, complex laptop either way.
It is perfect for people who simply don't need or want the complexities that today's Windows and Mac portable computers present.It's cheap, simple, handles the tasks most people actually need from a portable device, has great battery life, and turns on in an instant.
Sounds pretty good to me. (That's from Marc Orchant)
Yes, there are laptops, and I have a small Sony Vaio TX-750P [small-laptops.com]. It is overdesigned for what I am using it for; the screen is brittle, and the fan runs whenever you move a mouse. And it costs about $2,300 though you can get it for somewhat less than that.This laptop is so fragile, and so expensive, I would not even consider using it on the road. It won't survive the travel. If Palm's device is more rugged I'd get one easily. All I need is access to email and Web, and ability to read text files (ebooks) and occasionally type simple documents. Instant-on is far more important to me than the ability to run MS Word, since the laptop is too small for any serious wordprocessing. (a Slashdotter)
Most of the positive comments that are coming out initially are from people who hate the cost/weight ratio of laptop PCs, particularly people who travel on business. Elsewhere I'm reading about educators who consider the Foleo worth a serious look. They want to get laptops into students' hands but they're "too expensive and too fragile to give to students for classwork and for bringing home. They'd just install a whole bunch of garbage on them, making it a support nightmare, and they'd break it or "gunk it up" with everything in their bag, their pet fur and everything else."
Over the next weeks and months, especially after the product release, I think we'll start to hear about a lot more people who want and need something like the Foleo.
What about journalists? sales people? conference-goers? field workers? service technicians that need web access to the back office from a truck? real estate agents? insurance agents? Think they could use a cheap, lightweight, mobile computer that runs all day? More to my previous point: think we're hearing from these people on the web the day after Palm announces the Foleo?
It's a BIG world out there and these are just a few examples where even the limited 1.0 version of the Foleo could meet the needs of a lot of people and companies for low cost, portable, wireless computers.
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: The idea's growing on me...
So the parallel move to run applications through the web browser make make the Foleo a better product than it would have been 12 months ago.
I don't yet know if the Foleo "gets it right", but there's a large potential marketplace for something like it, even ignoring the hot connection to the mobile phone.
And it doesn't use MS Windows, which is a major simplification and advantage for most users, provided there's a way of doing what they need to do!
The Foleo looks like a better product for non-technical users than a MS Windows or Apple laptop.
But Palm do need to solve the "YouTube problem" and find a way to support video.
RE: The idea's growing on me...
You call 5 hour battery life all day? I get 8 hours on my iBook.
Please wipe the brown off your nose David. How much you gettin' paid to post this crud.
PDA's Past and Present:
Palm - IIIxe, Vx, M500, M505, Tungsten T, TX
Handspring - Edge, Platinum, Deluxe
Sony - SJ22
Apple - MP110, MP2000, MP2100
RE: The idea's growing on me...
I'll pass your helpful, insightful and oh-so-polite recommendation on to the poor benighted folks I quoted above.
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: The idea's growing on me...
A product positioned for market growth would not be one that appeals to people who already have and like cheap laptops and PDAs, but a product for people who don't currently like or have one now (e.g. none of the people posting here). So go ask people who don't currently carry a PDA or laptop (if you're not so geeky that you actually know a few) whether they like this Foleo thing before making up your mind.
RE: The idea's growing on me...
It doesn't have email. It doesn't have video. It doesn't have MP3s. It doesn't have contacts or a calendar. It is not a laptop replacement.
Sure, some of these things could be added through a web browser if you have an always-on high speed connection via hotspots or a high speed dataplan on your bluetooth phone. But what technophones or children have these things? And how viable is Google Calendar for exclusive access to your data, with no plan B in case you can't get online?
I'm afraid that the Foleo is exactly what Hawkins said it is. A companion device for your Treo. An external screen and keyboard, except with a lot of processing power and gui work offloaded to the external screen. But not too much, they don't want to duplicate the Treo's calendar program!
I can imagine the Linux community will eventually make an interesting distribution for the Foleo that makes it semi-viable (barring processor and memory limitations) as a laptop replacement. A few hard-core geeks will buy it while the masses wonder why they will need to buy a Treo to use this laptop? And the tech savvy road warriors wonder why they would replace their laptop with on that can't run their Windows software.
RE: The idea's growing on me...
There's the whole thing in just two sentences. Thank you.
RE: The idea's growing on me...
What some of these types really need is a lightweight but professional looking version of Negroponte's fugly OLPC, except with good keyboard and slightly wider display.
Wait a minute...
RE: I thought this is the Foleo...
And it'll do YouTube!
I hope they get the stylus right this time...
RE: I thought this is the Foleo...
PDA's Past and Present:
Palm - IIIxe, Vx, M500, M505, Tungsten T, TX
Handspring - Edge, Platinum, Deluxe
Sony - SJ22
Apple - MP110, MP2000, MP2100
RE: I thought this is the Foleo...
What am I missing?
RE: I thought this is the Foleo...
P.S.
If I HAD a Foleo, I'd be most likely to use it laying in bed or sitting on the crapper or sitting in my favorite chair in the sunroom than anywhere else. I wouldn't dream of traveling with it. If it was a trip that necessitated lugging/fighting/fumbling with something larger than a Treo or a PDA, I'd just bring my real laptop.
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P
RE: I thought this is the Foleo...
1) YouTube is fun
2) YouTube is the new P2P
3) YouTube is easy
4) YouTube is the New TV
You just haven't yet found that part of YouTube that will sink its fangs in your neck and suck away your life. Keep trying. It'll happen.
Gates and Jobs share similar vision with Hawkins
http://video.allthingsd.com/?bcpid=716692140&bclid=756513564&bctid=958499731
Gates - Not one single device, two mobile devices.
1. Full screen device that you carry around (Gates is a big believer in Tablet PCs) with a keyboard.
2. Device in your pocket with media, phone, navigation.
Evolution of these two devices will be highly complimentary, if you own one, you're more likely to own the other.
Jobs
1. PCs going mobile to an ever greater degree, connected to backend services in the cloud.
2. "Post-PC" devices that [b]aren't as general purpose, that are more focused on specific functions[/b] like phones, the iPod, Zune. This category is going to be very innovative, and there will be lots of them.
3. While talking about the Google Maps client on the iPhone, Jobs also said there is a lot that can be done with low power, inexpensive clients connected to the cloud using the right combination of well designed software and backend services. Sounds a lot like what Palm has been hinting at.
These statements sound very similar to what Jeff Hawkins said when introducing the Foleo and the concept behind it: Full keyboard, large screen, mobile, not general purpose, but focused on specific functions (starting with Email), and it is a companion to the smartphone, that if you own one you're more likely to own the other. Palm has also dropped vague hints that point to services in the cloud. Anyone else think the rebirth of MyPalm.com and the introduction of Palm Backup Beta hint at future Palm services in the cloud?
What are some of the most important requirements for a mobile device? Small size, light weight, low power consumption.
While 1st generation of the Foleo might not be there yet, 5 years out it should be spot-on. This is probably the right time window for Palm to introduce this "Post-PC" mobile device. Just my humble opinion.
Brian
RE: Gates and Jobs share similar vision with Hawkins
It won't last two years.
You know, when the original Palm Pilot came out, people could grasp it instantly. My only gripe -- because I knew my storage needs very well -- was the laughable RAM size. I came on board, finally, with the Batmanesque Palm III. And filled that fast.
Looking at the Flopeo, there's just no similar "Oh, yes, I could use that" reaction.
And lacking YouTube, well, that's simply Major Dumb.
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I started watching the webcast a few minutes ago and...
And that, all by itself, is an interesting commentary from this watch-everything-PALM-does-like-a-...ahem...-hawk PALM-pessimist!