Handheld Prices continue to fall at stores

With a large amount of PDA's on store shelves and inventories, many retail outlets are lowering prices on handhelds even further than Palm Inc's recent cutbacks.

In what may be a bad sign, prices on Palm's newest models, the m500 and m505, are also being reduced. BestBuy is selling the m500 at $330, $70 below the $400 MSRP. Other stores are offering extras, through July 15th Outpost.com will include a free 16MB SD card with the purchase of a m505. Other electronics retail stores are following suit with big price cuts and handheld promotions extending across their Palm OS line and even some PocketPC's.

E-tailer, MoreAudioVideo.com, is currently sporting some of the best deals around. They are offering the m505 for $383.99, the m500 for $322.99, the IIIc for $255. and a VIIx at $171.99.

Thanks to Ben Illigens and Mike Cane for the tips.

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m505 prices

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 11:45:47 AM #
I saw the m505 at Best Buy in Thousand Oaks, CA
yesterday for $419. It's listed on their website
at $418 and change.

Amazon.com is still selling it for $449.

RE: m505 prices
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 2:19:23 PM #
Best Buy began offering the lower prices for the 500 and 505 during Memorial Day weekend!

Good Guys are offering free shipping and no sales tax from their web site!

RE: m505 prices
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/2/2001 1:42:06 AM #
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 4:13:41 PM

I saw it here first, it seems to be a new bulletin board.

http://www.infosync.no/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi

RE: battery life
Posted by: Cheetah @ 5/28/2001 1:40:04 AM

interesting charts. Shows 505 with and without backlight on vs. PPC in a battery test.

505 with backlight on has similiar battery life then the other PPC. But without backlight, the 505 has over TWICE the battery life.

This is exactly the point! 505 does not need backlight on all the time (not in direct sunlight and in good indoor light) therefore the battery life is much better then PPC in the practical world.

I love my 505 and only use backlight when in poor lighting. In the office the screen is fine without the backlight.

I would also say that the 505 with the backlight on in a dark room (e.g. movie theater) is 1000% better then the reverse backlight of the Palm Vx.


Reply to this

Clie N710C availability
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 5:11:04 PM

As of 05/26 1:10 PM

Sunnyvale -- Out (confirmed by sale person)
Palo Alto -- Out (confirmed by sale person)
San Jose -- around 6 in the shelf (they have 12 in stock originally)

RE: Clie N710C availability
Posted by: CarlJ @ 5/26/2001 9:52:09 PM

As of 05/26 around noon, San Diego Frys:

I believe there were four in stock when I first walked past the shelf to go look at the demo model; when I came back to pick up a box there were three left (including the one I took), then when I walked past 30 minutes later before getting in the checkout line, the shelf was bare :-)

RE: Clie N710C availability
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 5:42:53 AM

The Fremont Fry's is also carrying them, however when you call them and ask to see if they are in stock they won't know what you are talking about. Try giving them the item number: 3011669 they can look it up in their computers that way.

They do have it on display for those who want to compare the m505 screen and the Clie screen. I must admit, I've been playing with mine for several hours and it rocks. :)


Reply to this

Great Photos
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 7:27:01 PM

Check these out!!

These are comparing the IPAQ, CLIE, and Palm m505

http://briefcase.yahoo.com/dreamwave6


Clie is 2x thickness of m505.
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 8:23:27 PM

http://y42.briefcase.yahoo.com/dreamwave6


RE: Great Photos
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 11:08:56 AM

The Clie is twice as thick as the m505, but it's not as wide. It actually fits in the typical jeans pocket BETTER.

RE: Great Photos
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 12:44:57 PM

Its thinker, yes, but not TWICE as think! The clie is thinner then two m505 stacked on each other.
m505 .5" Clie .66" [505 x 2 = 1 INCH]

RE: Clie is 2x thickness of m505.
Posted by: CarlJ @ 5/29/2001 6:54:04 PM

The Clie is 5/8 inch thick, the m505 is 1/2 inch. That's a difference of 1/8 inch, or 25 PERCENT, not "twice as thick". The m505 is also about 1/8 inch shorter, and 3/8 inch WIDER than the Clie.

I pre-ordered the m505 (the night before they were announced); I cancelled when they started showing up in the stores and I saw first-hand how dim the screen was. I went to see the new Clie on Saturday, not intending to buy it, just to look... and ended up plunking down my money and taking one home (this, after comparing the "floor model" extensively against the m505 sitting next to it; I had a friend with me, she wanted to know where the brightness control was on the m505).

The Clie is smaller than my old Palm IIIx (a teensy bit shorter, 3/8 inch narrower, the same thickness), and has by far the best screen ever seen on a PalmOS handheld. I'm running with the backlight at about 25 percent -- at 100 percent, you could use it as a flashlight. At 320x320, the screen is simply breathtaking, and at 160x160, there is _no_ trace of the dreaded "black grid".

If the m505 had the Clie's backlight (I'm not talking about the hi-res screen, mind you, just the bright, adjustable, backlight), I would have gotten the m505 instead (weeks ago) -- I *like* the m505, it's sleek and sexy, and will no doubt be more widely supported. But, to me, the whole point of color is to make the information on the screen easier to read, and I found the m505's dim screen to be an impediment, not a benefit.

Folks, it's time to stop all the bickering; wait until you have a chance to compare the Clie and m505 side-by-side in a store somewhere, and *then* decide which is best for *you*.

RE: Great Photos
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 1:04:56 AM

If we bicker the only one who wins is Bill Gates.


Reply to this

The new Sony
Posted by: Edd @ 5/26/2001 8:05:14 PM

Hi, I just went to Fry's in Manhattan Beach to see the new color Clie and when we were there, we beamed the Photosuite and some pictures from our M505 just so we can compare them side by side. The resolution on the new Sony is awesome, not only the fonts look smoother on the Sony but also the pictures. There are no jagged edges on the fonts (not that I can see). The only thing is Sony can only display 256 colors and the Palm has more (16 bits).

When comparing side by side you can clearly see the Palm has more richer color display (but dimmer). Supposedly, the Japanese version of the Clie has more features than the one imported here. :(

Hey Edd,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 8:54:11 PM

quote from Edd: "Supposedly, the Japanese version of the Clie has more features than the one imported here. :("

What features are you talking about?

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: Edd @ 5/26/2001 9:31:27 PM

According to this Sony website in Japan http://www.sony.co.jp/sd/ProductsPark/Consumer/PEG/PEG-N700C/tv.html You're supposed to be able to download and watch TV on your Clie. I didn't see that mention anywhere on the USA box at Fry's.

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 9:36:29 PM

Go to www.genericmedia.com and download the app that Sony is packaging with it's Japanese CLIE. Get the Palm movie player and their movie maker. If you already have a TV-tuner card and WinVCR or something like that, you should be able to do it. Of course, you could just go buy this VAIO desktop from Sony specifically designed to record television programs instead of using your own TV-tuner card and WinVCR: http://www.sonystyle.com/vaio/digitalstudio/index.html

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 9:41:40 PM

Here ya' go...direct link: http://www.genericmedia.com/news_pr09.html

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: Edd @ 5/26/2001 9:49:40 PM

Thanks. Now let me go return my M505 :) while it still within 14 days return period at Staples.

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 9:59:30 PM

Remember, to have the Japanese have with their CLIE's, you'll have to have a large harddrive to capture a 1-hour long TV show or a really big one to capture a 2-hour long movie, then you'll have to have a much higher capacity Memory Stick than the 8MB one that comes with the CLIE. The 64MB Memory Stick goes for around $100 on eBay and the newer 128MB Memory Sticks go for around $200. These prices will come down eventually but as you can see it is going to be an expensive proposition to make the CLIE a portable movie player, which is EXACTLY what I plan to use mine for :)

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 10:26:24 PM

Try this out !!!

Using a program called HRCapt (DA Program)
located at:
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/fairy/chimer...OthersPalm.html
(it's in japanese),
I made several screen captures of my N710C Clie in various modes and pictures.
THe program captures Hi resolution as well as low, i've posted the pictures at:

http://members.nbci.com/nxt/clie710...0screencap.html

and yes, this IS a REAL screen capture from n710c

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 10:44:38 PM

Can't get your page up

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 10:44:38 PM

Can't get your page up

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 11:10:31 AM

Also, the nipponese clie doesn't play MP3. The American one does.

MP3
Posted by: Edd @ 5/27/2001 11:56:46 AM

Hmm.. I thought it does according to this page:

http://www.sony.co.jp/sd/ProductsPark/Consumer/PEG/PEG-N700C/music.html

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:23:55 PM

I realize the Sony has Mp3, Attrac, etc. play back; however, will these movies be encoded with sound via gMovie Maker and can they be played back with sound on gMovie Player?

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:25:44 PM

One other question, how big would say an hour long show encoded in MPEG-1 wind up. In other words, how much could you fit on a 128 meg memory stick?

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:44:45 PM

I saw the new Sony at a local Fry's and was impressed. The size and weight between the 505 and the N710c were comparable, one's a little wider, the other a little thicker. The screen was obviously sharper on the Sony, but when comparing the color, the Palm was actually richer. I was surprised. The brightness is great on the Clie, but the colors look washed out. Is there any way of increasing the contrast?

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 9:00:01 PM

Nope!

RE: 1-hr mpeg
Posted by: vgz @ 5/28/2001 1:12:37 AM

>>One other question, how big would say an hour long show encoded in MPEG-1 wind up. In other words, how much could you fit on a 128 meg memory stick?

It would depend on the frame rate but I have several mpeg files and a 50minute 17 sec mpeg is 489.6 MB. Good luck getting that on a memorystick.


Matt

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 3:07:02 PM

The Japanese 700 plays ONLY ATRAC3 format on white copy-protection memory sticks.

The American 710 plays ATRAC3 (bleah!) or MP3, and it can store MP3s on the cheaper, non-encrypted blue sticks.

Matt...gMovie Maker converts PC video files to gMovie format
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 7:49:34 PM

with sound. The gMovie Maker reformats the video to 320x320 resolution. A decent quality picture at a decent frame rate will get you about 1 minute of video with sound for every 1MB on the MS. Thus, a 128MB MS will let you watch a 2-hour movie.

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: eipangan @ 5/28/2001 9:27:04 PM

Starting June 18, users of the Japanese model can now download MediaPlayer 2.0, which can play MP3 off the blue stick. The download is priced at 2,000 yen but is on sale for the first few months - 1,500 yen.

Screenshots? Bah!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 6:54:51 PM

Ummm... You could put a bullet through the front of the Clie and the screenshots would look the same. Those do not show what the Clie's display does, it shows us what our computer moniors do.


Reply to this

Clie is big!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 10:48:55 PM

Holy cow! That thing is a monster! I though it would be closer to the palm m505, but it's beast! Be prepared to have a heavy, metal object (basically an iPaq in size) in your pocket if you get one of these. Screen is ok though, but not as vivid as described.


RE: Clie is big!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:42:04 AM

What do you base your comments about screen quality on??


RE: Clie is big!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 11:11:19 AM

Nope. It's nowhere near as big as an iPaq.

It's thicker than an m505, but not as thick as a Visor Prism. And because of the reduced width, it's very pocketable.

RE: Clie is big!
Posted by: TvM @ 5/27/2001 8:06:49 PM

It is plastic

RE: Clie is big!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 11:06:40 PM

It's NOT plastic!! It's metal... at least the front is, not sure about the back. You people should stop makig all these statements if you don't have anything to back it up.

RE: Clie is big!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 2:28:59 AM

Yes, stop those crap comments without proof! I own a Clie N700C, and having it put side by side with the iPaq, the size difference is great! Whoever says that they are the same, basically, you have neither seen both devices, or maybe never even seen them before!

Yes, its thicker than the 505, but its way thinner than Prism. Its in between. With the case on, m505 will be as thick as the Clie (with the flip cover on)

ON the other hand, the Clie is narrower, so it appears smaller, and it is thus very pocketable (in the pants pocket, not the shirt)


Reply to this

reseting
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 11:12:35 PM

how do i do a hard reset on my new clie ?


RE: reseting
Posted by: Shane @ 5/27/2001 6:05:57 AM

Your Clie come with a book called Instructions. If you turn to the first few pages you will find the Contents. If you look for resetting in there and turn to the right page it will explain how to do it.


RE: reseting
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:43:10 AM

LOL!! The questions some people ask! Hmm..2-10 hrs to get a reply to a post, vs 4 mins to look it up in the manual......decisions, decisions....


Reply to this

Here are the Links
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 12:27:29 AM

This is nXt btw, Mike Cane earlier posted some of my websites, unfortunately Geocities killed my account because I had some files!
The new pages are at the following

Mini Review:
http://members.nbci.com/nxt/clie710/710review.html

Screen Captures: <-- Must See
http://members.nbci.com/nxt/clie710/710screencap.html

Digital Camera Pictures:
http://members.nbci.com/nxt/clie710/cliepicture.html

RE: Here are the Links
Posted by: mikecane @ 5/27/2001 1:31:37 PM

Thanks, nXt! I should have read the board completely before I posted the other links above. These new ones seem to work.


RE: Here are the Links
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 10:11:40 PM

Thanks so much nXt for the screen capture pics. I was hoping that somewhere on the net would be some screen captures. Please add more when you have time.

I see you enlarged a 160x160 pic to the size of the 320x320 pic for comparison, but can you do it the other way around please? Reduce the hi res to the same size as low res so they can be compared that way too.

Thanks again! Good work.

RE: Here are the Links
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 3:56:23 AM

When enlarging the 160x160 screenshots in Photoshop, you should use Nearest Neighbor interpolation instead of Bicubic. This will accurately represent pixel-doubling.


Reply to this

Size!
Posted by: Cheetah @ 5/27/2001 6:22:01 AM

Hmmmm...more vibrant screen (although not 16bit), BUT much thicker, longer, and heavier!

That's the point of the 505. It has color yet retains it's small size and good battery life.

I've used my 505 for two weeks now and love it.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 6:50:36 AM

I agree about the size. Much as I tried to like the iPaq, the size issue was a killer for me. I use my m505 alot and just could not see carrying an iPaq like device around all day.

It may be fine for those who carry it from desk to meeting, to desk and home. But as a sales professional who lives with it - no way. People forget that is what Palm had in mind when it balanced the features of the device.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:47:08 AM

It may be thicker, but many new owners have said it fits the hand better than the 505

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 11:12:40 AM

Check it out before you write it off as bulky. The size is actually very good in actual use.

RE: Size!
Posted by: Edd @ 5/27/2001 12:02:06 PM

It fits comfortably in my hand and it slightly narrower than my M505 (so that you can use your thumb to operate the jog dial). Then new jog dial now has the back button (the monochrome one didn't have that) and it comes with PowerJog.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 12:50:20 PM

I have used it, and IT IS BIGGER, period. It is twice and thick, grab a ruler and check, I did. Yes it is slightly less in width, but does not make up for the depth. My PalmV was in a titanium hard case and I had it in my front pocket always, in the hard case it was still thinner than the clie, now I have the m505, and size wise it win hands down. Nothing fits in my pocket better.

Just my opinion. To each his own.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 12:58:42 PM

what is the point of carrying it around and the screen is annoying to look at?

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 1:23:06 PM


Hee hee hee

I love how we always get of the subject ,turn things around and make it us against them .LOL =)This makes me laugh alot.

Very antertaining .

Thanx

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 1:25:01 PM

What is the point of having a beautiful screen to look at if you never carry it around with you because it is too bulky?

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 1:52:29 PM

hahahah, palm company is dying and their customers are trashing each other products, PPC won heheheheeh I like it

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 2:27:24 PM

The CLIE's thickness is .03" thinner than the very portable visor deluxe form factor. The CLIE is not a brick. You people are a bunch of whinning, anorexic wimps!!

Hey, two 3x5 cards would really dissapear in your pants pocket. Just carry a few of those around and quit whining.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 7:39:28 PM

Clie thickness is 1.68 in, width is 7.1 in
M505 thickness is 1.27 in, width is 7.874 in

And when you are holding a PDA, the important parameters are the width and height (where width is more important than height). Simple math for calulcating the length to fit into your palm

width for Clie is 7.1 in
width for M505 is 7.874 in
The difference is 0.774 in (Clie win)

thickness for Clie is 1.68 in
thickness for M505 is 1.27 in
The difference is .41 in (M505 win)

width + 2 * thickness for Clie is 10.46 in
width + 2 * thickness for M505 is 10.414 in

The difference is 0.046 in (M505 win).

If you calculate the perimeter

2*width + 2 * thickness for Clie is 17.56 in
2*width + 2 * thickness for M505 is 18.288 in

The difference is 0.728 in (Clie win).

Of course, volume wise, Clie is still a little larger, but it is not as what some people claimed it to be BULKIER, HEAVIER. Sounds like Clie is way too big but it is not.

Besides the weight difference is only 20 g, if you put an MP3 plyer in M505, see how much that gonna weight?

M505 is definitely a loser compared to Clie (except for the 20g weight differnce and slightly larger form factor), now many people have seen the amaing screen and have learned that the Clie width is actually much narrower than M505, the proud M505 owners are whining about the thickness and weight? And that is the only valuable thing left for M505?

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:31:42 PM

Oops, the important parameters should be width and "thickness", not height.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:33:03 PM

I think the biggest loser of all is the person who computed all that. Do you plan to keep your Clie in your pocket protector?

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:50:04 PM

I have Clie N710C here with me, it fits into shirt pocket well. Have you seen the Clie with your own eyes and hold it with your own palm actually?

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 10:02:11 PM

I would love to see someone put a couple of 3 by 5 index cards in their shirt pocket, I can barely understand putting a m505 in, even if it does fit. Putting a Clie in your shirt pocket (as I have seen the size at a OD with a demo unit) would be the epitome of dorkiness.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 11:47:14 PM

>I think the biggest loser of all is the person who computed all that. Do you plan to keep your Clie in your pocket protector?<

He was just giving facts to support his claims of the CLie's size not speculations like everyone else

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 10:15:08 AM

Who ever calculated that is WRONG "thickness for Clie is 1.68 in thickness for M505 is 1.27 in" My m505 is only .5 IN thick!!! the m505 is not over 1 and a quarter inches!!!

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 12:26:16 PM

That would be 1.27 cm
0.5 inches x 2.54 cm/inch = 1.27 inches


RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 12:27:55 PM

Now I've done it:
0.5 inches x 2.54 cm/inch = 1.27 cm

Sorry

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 1:19:57 PM

why don't you guys just wait and hold both of them in your palm and then determine instead of doing all these silly calculations.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 3:09:27 PM

Geezus Christmas, children, GET A LIFE.

If you're so insecure that you have to trash other peoples' choices to justify your own, I pity you.

(And as for the "PPC win" comment, under 10% markeshare is winning? Must have made that calculation on an original Pentium. :-)

(Now see, you've lowered me to your level.. :-)

Biggest losers
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 2:06:45 AM

>I think the biggest loser of all is the person who computed all that. Do you plan to keep your Clie in your pocket protector?<

Actually, I believe the biggest losers are all those people that are calling the Clie "too big to carry around", the Clie "is as big as am iPAQ" and "the Clie is twice as thick as the m505". These are obviously not true. I think the motives behind people who post these comments feels so threaten by the Clie because it's better than their m505.

Come-on people, it's a handheld!! I understand if you are posting a legitimate complaint, but purposely making false statements just because there's a better product?!?!? That's the definition of a loser!!

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 10:22:53 AM

Actually, you have it backwards. People did nothing but bash the m505 for its dim screen, and hyped up the Clie to unrealistic expectations.

Now that the Clie is out, and people can compare them, the m505 holds its own against the Clie. Unless you want a brick sized MP3 player included, that is.

It is the Clie owners who now feel they have to justify their purchases, and will lash out against anyone who has something good to say about the m505.

Don't even start with the "its got a 320x320 screen..." arguement. Palm will integrate a high rez scrren into its future offerings when it feels that the processor can handle the higher resolution without slowing the hanheld down to a crawl. Plus they will give us high resolution AND 16 bit color in the future.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 12:27:12 PM

>Don't even start with the "its got a 320x320
>screen..." arguement. Palm will integrate a high rez
>scrren into its future offerings when it feels that
>the processor can handle the higher resolution
>without slowing the hanheld down to a crawl. Plus
>they will give us high resolution AND 16 bit color in
>the future.

Actually, YOU are really searching....

The majority of the feedback from actual Clie N710C owners have been positive as are the reviews from creditable from major tech. news sources. So there's no need to justify the Clie.

There is, however, a need to justify why the hell did someone pay $450 for an m505, while for $50 more they could've gottenso much more.

Oh, by the way...the Clie has a hardware video accelerator that speeds the 320x320 resolution up. From people who have tested the Clie, they obtain a benchmark of 207%!!! That's the speed of a visor platinum. The benchmark of the m505 was benchmarked at around 150%. So not only does the Clie have 320x320 resolution, it's actually faster than the m505.

And...speaking of the new processor...did you read that the new ARM processor will have built-in memory stick compatibilty?

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 3:26:05 PM

It is definitely not a legitimate comparison to benchmark 2 PDA's running different versions of the same OS. Clie=3.52 m505=4.0. Visor-3.5+

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 4:09:35 PM


So you mean 4.0 is slower than 3.5?

Correction: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 4:16:37 PM

Oops, that should be 1.27 cm for m505 thickness and 1.68 cm for Clie thickness. Sorry about the mistake!!

A benchmark is a benchmark
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 1:01:15 PM

>It is definitely not a legitimate comparison to >benchmark 2 PDA's running different versions of the >same OS. Clie=3.52 m505=4.0. Visor-3.5+

What difference does that make? Since it is the same OS but different versions, the benchmark 2.0 is compatible, that's all that matters. If look at the relative speed data on the benchmark, it listed both machines running Palm OS 3.2 and 3.5, aren't those different version of the same OS?


Reply to this

Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 12:36:06 PM

I’ve looked at all these pics of the Ipaq, Clie and M505 screen quality. I like all three machines if you could believe that but, I was willing to sacrifice some features for the reason that I value size the most…Said that, I need help to understand Why isn’t possible to have a contrast setting on the m505? Since it seams that the Ipaq and the Clie have similar types of screens???(Lit the same way so, it seams to me)

Can some one help me to have a better understanding how the clie or I paq were able to accomplish this and not palm…?

Thank you
730…=O)~


RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 1:16:59 PM

Great Question:
I too would like to know the answer Ed can you help with this one?Thanx


RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 2:41:53 PM

This was done on purpose in order to optimize battery life and the color screen.

If users were able to adjust the brightness, then the battery life would suffer and folks would be unhappy with the results.

RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:40:16 PM

Do you actually believe what you are talking about yourself? "If there is a button for brightness, then the battery life will be shorter", you think people are idiot, they don't know how to turn the brightness down when there are enough lights? This is ridiculous!!

RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:57:48 PM

I would have to agree!
That was a pretty dumb statement.
That the consumers meaning us would not be smart enough to know when to turn off the contrast button which would shorten battery life and palm based there decision on that.
Good one lets hear another.
I need a laugh.


RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 10:02:58 AM

To answer your question, yes I believe in what I am talking about.

Let me answer your question with a question. Why do you think there is no contrast option? Do you think it was an oversight on Palm's part? Do you really think Palm "forgot" to put in an option which has been in all the other palms before this one? I don't think so.
So if they didn't forget, and they didn't include it, the answer that best fits the situation is they set it for the optimal combination of battery life and screen brightness.

If you disagree with me, why not ask Palm? I'm sure by now they have received calls from folks asking how to adjust the contrast.

RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 11:31:14 AM

Let me use a question to answer your question too. What will you explain if Palm put a brightness control in the next verson of m505? "Oh!!! Palm listens to the customer?"

I have dropped by Frys many times to look at different PDAs, everytime when people looked at m505, most of them tried to find the brightness control to see if they could make it brighter.

If Palm decided not to include the brightness adjustment because of the reason you mentioned, I guess that is a big mistake!!

RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 1:56:17 PM

I will have to agree with the comments above you do have some valid points. Re: reasons that m505 did not come with a contrast button but if some third party app would come out to be able to change the setting of brightness-if this is at all possible he or she would make Bank! I would purchase it! In a heart beat.

RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 2:03:07 PM

"What will you explain if Palm put a brightness control in the next verson of m505? "Oh!!! Palm listens to the customer?""

The next version of the m505 may very well have a contrast control. It may also have a soft graffiti screen, 320x320 resolution and/or a better battery. And yes it would be due to customer demand. These are all hardware changes and some or all will probably be included in upcoming models. I don't think you will be seeing a contrast button in the current OS however.

RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 2:20:21 AM

IF there's a next version of the m505!!! Palm is sinking fast. They are "re-thinking" their strategy. They might pull out of the high-end market and focus on the low-end m100's.

RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 9:51:26 AM

Rather than letting us just speculate about Palm's reasoning, someone from Palm should step forward and explain the choices that they made with the M505. I have seen some very good posts from Handera explaining the design tradeoffs they made on their new model (color vs. black and white, etc.). In the absence of any statement from Palm we can only assume they think we're too dumb to handle a brightness control.

RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 4:04:16 PM

I guess it is due to the energy crisis!! So user can not adjust the brightness to drain power fast!!

Great idea, now the federal government should order all the lamp manufacturer to make a fix lamp so that the energy deficiency can be alleviated!


Reply to this

Size
Posted by: Volcano @ 5/27/2001 1:58:08 PM

I have had my M505 for 3 weeks now and use it for many houre everyday. I am a Operations Mgr. for PepsiCo and have many contacts, direct reporte, to do lists, e-mail, word docs, spreadsheets etc. that I must have at my finger tips instantly. The 505 packs it all. Every time I take it out of my pocket, I am still amazed by the size (absoulutly small). I had heard a lot about the sub-par screen and got caught up in the "hysteria" and actually went back to BEST BUY to trade it cor an IPAQ but the IPAQ was too big, the software too "awkward" and actually the M505 screen was to-me sharper under many more light conditions w/o fumbling w/contrast controls. I kept my 505 and I am still impressed w/it everyday!
RE: Size
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 2:52:23 PM

I totally agree; morningstar1844@hotmail.com
For the size you cannot beat it!


Volcano, Pepsi & Palmtop-pro
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 4:38:30 PM

Hi Volcano!

We are the premium mobile computing hardcopy magazine in Europe and would love to print your impression as manager at pepsico on the m505.

Please contact me directly:
Boris Michael von Luhovoy
publishing editor
Palmtop-pro magazine

bmv.luhovoy@nextra.at

for more information on us please visit:
www.palmtop-pro.com/index1.htm

(sorry folks - german only)

Please see also our story on the polarstern icebreaker & palm on:
www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=1923


RE: Size
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 3:11:42 PM

But why discuss the admittedly cool m505 in a Clie topic?

As for Pepsi, could you PLEASE do something to make Diet Pepsi not taste so crappy? I hate it when restaurants give the "no coke, pepsi" line. :-)

RE: M505
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 4:22:49 PM

Because M505 owners are having a hard time right now. They have to keep justifying their M505 purchase to themselves. I think the more choices we have the better. But some M505 owners keep trolling any Clie' article with disparaging remarks about a PDA that most have never seen in real life.

Nobody wins with less choices, we all lose.


Reply to this

Size
Posted by: seaaa @ 5/27/2001 3:14:11 PM

I agree with you Vol. my M505 is great. When ever I use it at work (constantly) it gets "oos and ahhs", awesome size, incredible expandbility ans color. I take it absoulutly every where, hiking, workouts, shopping and forget it's there. My brother works for Micro soft and they all have IPAQs, I beat him hands down pulling up basic applications faster while his IPAQ gets hung up on programs he accidently hit etc. Also he often does'nt have his IPAQ ("Too big to lug around!").
Reply to this

battery life?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 4:11:38 PM

Who knows the battery life of these three devices: Ipaq, clie710c and 505? Now I am more concerning about this rather than the size and screen quality. Different people have different preferences, for meI prefer a smaller size device, although I envy the screen quality of the clie. Yes I am a proud m505 owner.


RE: battery life?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 4:51:37 PM

Don't envy the screen of the Clie, you can only look at it for about 2-3 hours a charge running applications. It's not worth the bulkiness, the 256-color display, and they low battery life. Go with the m505, it treats you right.


RE: battery life?(Clie N700C and m505)
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 5:11:06 PM

As a author of BatteryBench, I tested both devices
(CLIE is japanese model N700C)

I tested both in normal mode of BatteryBench( it runs 1 second
and only display for 9 seconds)

N700C
backlight off : 16 hours
backlight minimum: 10 hours
backlight maximum: 6 hours

m505
backlight off : 15 hours
backlight on : 6.5 hours

FYI
m100: 40 hours
HandEra 330: 36 hours


YAMADA Tatsushi
Hacker dude-san
http://simple-palm.com


RE: battery life?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:46:14 PM

"It can only last 2-3 hours",

that is with playing mp3 and front light on. without front light, it last 11 hours for playing MP3. I think for normal usage, it should be even longer.

RE: battery life?
Posted by: JET8810 @ 5/27/2001 9:31:25 PM

wow...the handera gets 36 hours of battery life?!?!?! Is that just looking up adresses or games...also, using a cf modem and keyboard would drain the battery much.,..quicker...right?

RE: battery life?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 10:47:29 PM

> HE330, 36 hours with CF modem?

No, but you can plug the 330 into the wall and run it for as long as you like.

Bob


RE: battery life?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 2:43:30 AM

Clie lasts only 2 - 3 hours?
Another misinformed idiot making unfounded comments.
The clie can last as long as the m505, my dear friends.
I have used both, tried both.
Unless you play MP3 with the screen on, it will drain in 3 hours, else typical usage will last you at least one week. (1 hour a day on average)

RE: battery life?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 2:10:48 AM

Obviously you are another idiot who doesn't read people's comments in full. Why not scroll up and read again what he wrote?

RE: battery life!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 3:52:57 AM

After conducting real world tests we found that the battery life of a Palm is much longer as in any statistic.

The test results shown above are most probably conducted in a continuous mode e.g. running a program and measuring continuos until the battery is exhausted.
This puts on a battery an artificial (not a real world) drain. Thought there is no other standard to measure it has to be seen what ist is: As very rough comparing tool somehow probably ok or not (depends how you look at the data), it shows something but holds no water in real use as it reflects not the day to day PDA life.

Anyhow – the test as conducted here has probably some meaning, as there is no other known proper way to measure – even thought this does not reflect the real world performance.

In real world you flip the Palm open, look up your data and close down. This gives the battery the ability to recreate and gain when in off mode.

Our (out of the stomach and not 100% replicable) tests have shown, that the M500 runs up to about 21 hours in real world with light of – But that’s something widely depending on the individual users individual behaviour. So it is safe to say that the Palm has not only a very good real world performance but a superior one.

Like a RollsRoyce vendor answers a question to the horsepower of a Silvercloud with a disgusted but conclusive:

Enough power in any situation ... Sir'

Boris
Palmtop-pro Magazine
publishing editor
www.palmtop-pro.com


Reply to this

16bit M505 vs 8bit Clie
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 9:50:39 PM

I think people who compare these two don't realize there ain't much difference to the naked eye. As ED have reviewed, he cannot tell the difference from a 256 color picture and one of 16bit color. Maybe this is due to the cloudyness that some m505 owners have reported.

Some other people believe that having 16bit color will achieve better pictures. But if you think about it, 256 color does produce color banding, but it is at a much higher resolution (320x320). While m505 has 16bit colors, yet the pixelation of the machine will cause some color banding. In turn, they will both achieve the same colors, but the one with higher resolution will give better details and sharper image.

However m505 is still a great machine given the size of it with a built in expansion slot. If size is what you need, go for a m505, but if you want something new and innovative, with a great screen, get the clie.

Lastly, some has compared the iPaq with the new clie. I say the only comparison that you can really do is the screen itself. I've seen the pictures of the 3 machines and I say Clie has the best of the bunch. and best of all, its PalmOS. Now all i need is a place close to Canada so that I can drive down to get myself a Clie.

RE: 16bit M505 vs 8bit Clie
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 12:13:38 AM

Excellent point. I have a Clie and a Prism, I have to say even my Prism has 16 bit color, the resolution kills it. The Clie's 4 times higher resolution magnifies the visual effect. Now I suspect Palm and Handspring will push similar product given the overhelmingly good reputation of the Clie N-710C. Lets wait and see.


RE: 16bit M505 vs 8bit Clie
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 10:50:52 AM

Don't let the pictures fool you. The color on the Clie was not as intense as expected. Some have said that the colors on the m505 look milky. Having held the Clie in my hand, the colors are also "milky" and washed out. They are sharper though. Sharper is good. Washed out is not.

RE: 16bit M505 vs 8bit Clie
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 11:26:18 AM

Compared with Prism, the color of Clie is washed out, compared with, m505 color is also washed out (and because of the frontlight of m505 is not adjustable and very dim, the color looks more washed out than Clie, however, the m505 has more color but very dull).


Reply to this

VII
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 11:23:52 PM

can someone tell me if i can use AOL instant messenger on a VIIx. thanx


RE: VII
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 12:28:25 AM

i guess


RE: VII
Posted by: bcombee @ 5/28/2001 4:16:13 AM

There is a gateway PQA to send AOL IMs to other users, but you cannot receive instant messages, since the Palm VII/VIIx is not constantly connected -- it only gets data when you explicitly make a request.

RE: VII
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 11:28:21 AM

but couldnt you make a request constantly say like once every 5 seconds

RE: VII
Posted by: bcombee @ 5/29/2001 12:45:56 AM

Turn around time for a single request tends to be five to ten seconds. Having the device continually poll the server would run down the transmitter antenna in a few minutes, and drain the AAA's after an hour or so of usage.

Its just not feasible until a push-capable Palm, like the rumored m700, is available.


Reply to this

"Backlist" Graffiti area?
Posted by: jasonheyd @ 5/28/2001 9:34:42 AM


Anyone know if the Graffiti area of the N710C is backlist, as it is with the m505?


RE: "Backlit" Graffiti area ..
Posted by: jasonheyd @ 5/28/2001 9:36:12 AM


Meant "backLIT" not "list". :)


RE: Backlit
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 10:11:22 AM

No, at least the 700 is not. My guess the 710 is the same way.

RE:
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 10:16:27 AM

nope

RE:
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 11:23:49 AM

The four blocks (HOME, MENU, CALCULATOR, FIND) are backlit, the Graffitti area is not.

RE:
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 12:09:40 PM

>>The four blocks (HOME, MENU, CALCULATOR, FIND) are backlit, the Graffitti area is not.<<

Just as good!!

RE:
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 3:55:10 PM

Actually the graffitti area is lit a little since the front light sits underneath the top of the Graffitti area,
and the light can go to the top of the Graffitti area.

RE: Backlit graffiti area - NO, not on my US model
Posted by: PalmZealot @ 5/30/2001 2:00:37 PM

I just bought a Sony Clié N710C at Fry's last night. I had to charge it first to try it out - not like the HP Jornada 547 I bought last week (the HP 547 came with a Stowaway Keyboard, UBS cradle and 32MBRam for $399 - hand to try it - Ugh - S L O W . . . .).

I tried the Sony Clié N710C in the dark to see if the graffiti area was indeed lit, but is was NOT, and neither were the Home, Menu, Find or Calc areas. I found it impossible to write on the graffiti area in the darkness of the room while the mighty glow of the screen blinded me. Trying to find the "Brightness" button on the graffiti area was impossible too because it wasn't lit either.

While screen is bright, and sharp, but appears muddy and grey because of the bad CONTRAST setting. Too bad its not like the PPC's out on the market - like the HP 547 I bought last week - it of course has both Contrast and Brightness settings - something ANY color device SHOULD have. Your COLOR TV at home has a Contrast and Brightness adjustment, why not on these Palm OS handhelds????

Also point real quick if I may, the Sony Clié N710C is noticibly heavier than the other Palm PDA (minus the Prism of course), and if people are going to compare the m505 and the N710C, they should take into consideration the size of the two devices.

Its stands to reason that if the m505 had AS BIG a battery that the N710C uses, that the m505 would be AS BRIGHT and the battery life would last AS LONG as the Sony Clié N710C. Of course though, that would make the m505 AS BIG as the N710C, so what would be the point of having an m505 THAT BIG???? The m505 would loose its small sleak design. So that's the trade off.

After testing out the Sony Clié N710C, I have decided that I will be returning the Sony Clié N710C (like I did the HP 547). The Sony Clié N710C to me isn't worth the $537 (incld tax) I paid for it.


Reply to this

New Clie
Posted by: Dave @ 5/28/2001 12:37:54 PM

Few comments-
Sceen is pretty bright/colors little murky
Battery life in real testing doesn't last as long as m505
It is a thick machine, doesn't have the same pocketability factor.
To store songs on it, you need memory stick, which are very expensive.
Graffiti area does not glow.
Stick with your m505, it'll treat you right.
RE: New Clie
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 12:42:49 PM

another misinformed commenter


RE: New Clie
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 1:17:42 PM

how come everyone said memory stick is expensive. I found 64Mb for $78, how much is 64Mb of SD card anyway?

RE: New Clie
Posted by: twizza @ 5/28/2001 2:06:34 PM

i have seen the sd cards at expensive stores such as circuit city and best buy go for around $50-$55. the MMC versions go for about $15 less that that.

as for the price that u quoted. where was that. i have not see a 64mb mem stick for less that $80-$85.

RE: New Clie
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 2:31:50 PM

$50 for a 64Mb SD card? i don't think so. you said Circuit city, best buy... so there are no proves because but here is my prove of price for memory card, $78 for 64Mb
http://www.moreaudiovideo.com/Shopping/ItemList.cfm?ItemID=238

and $78.99 for 64Mb at
http://www.etronics.com/product.asp?stk_code=sonmsa64a&svbname=31

and $82 for 64Mb at ecost.com

please show me some place where they sell 64Mb of SD card for $50, please get real, don't post any message if you have nothing to back you up with

RE: New Clie
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 8:40:49 PM

Holly Cow!
Thats pretty cheap! $78.00 for a 64MB Mem stick.

I done know why i've been trying so hard to get one off Ebay !

New Clie will be the m505 killer!!!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 2:30:31 AM

OK, so the clie is only slighly bigger than the m505, and that the Clie uses only 8-bit color, and that the Clie uses memory sticks. So what?!?!

I don't understand why people are so fixated on these minor details.

Let's talk about the major details:
1. increase resolution 320x320
2. no grid-lines
3. built-in multi-media/MP3 support
4. jog-dail for easy navigation with a back button
5. adjustable screen contrast/brightness
6. better smoother text
7. brighter, whiter screen
8. longer battery life
9. 8 MB internal RAM, 4MB flash ROM, and 8MB memory stick included
10. travel charger included

The Clie has ALL the above while the m505 lacks them, and in my opinion, the features listed above most than justify fewer colors and a 0.16" thickness.

By the way, the color depth in the m505 is useless because of the dim screen.

New Clie will be the m505 killer!!!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 2:30:31 AM

OK, so the clie is only slighly bigger than the m505, and that the Clie uses only 8-bit color, and that the Clie uses memory sticks. So what?!?!

I don't understand why people are so fixated on these minor details.

Let's talk about the major details:
1. increase resolution 320x320
2. no grid-lines
3. built-in multi-media/MP3 support
4. jog-dail for easy navigation with a back button
5. adjustable screen contrast/brightness
6. better smoother text
7. brighter, whiter screen
8. longer battery life
9. 8 MB internal RAM, 4MB flash ROM, and 8MB memory stick included
10. travel charger included

The Clie has ALL the above while the m505 lacks them, and in my opinion, the features listed above most than justify fewer colors and a 0.16" thickness.

By the way, the color depth in the m505 is useless because of the dim screen.


Reply to this

Sony doesn't expect it to sell
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 1:16:53 PM

Look at the advertising. They spent millions to advertise the playstation 2 (before it came out), advertise their wega tv's, and their Vaio laptops. They haven't spent a dime advertising it. If the parent company doesn't care enough, why should we? Even if the Clie is the greatest handheld ever, if the parent company doesn't care the general public shouldn't either.


They are starting to advertise
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 4:07:57 PM

Actually I just saw the first ad on Friday.

It’s on the back cover of the June 1, 2001 Entertainment Weekly – not exactly a geek magazine.

They say it’s business tool because it runs the Palm OS. And it has entertainment features-it plays MP3’s and video clips.

I’m looking forward to getting my hands on one. –Just like a lot of other people.

I also hope that Sony can bring some add-on accessories to market soon too: wireless modem, folding keyboard, memory sticks with applications, etc.


RE: Sony doesn't expect it to sell
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 12:48:01 AM

My there are a lot of irrational people posting here with "Sony Envy".... The CLIE has sold out on the west coast in one weekend... hey Sony haters, my Mem Stick is bigger than your SD card!!

*arrogant chuckles*

RE: Sony doesn't expect it to sell
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 1:09:25 AM

You're an idiot!!

Did Palm advertise the m505 or m500 much?

Did Handspring advertise their products much?

I don't understand people like you, you post these ridiculous comments trying to trash a very good handheld. What's the matter? Did the Sony make your m505 look like crap? Are you afraid that Palm is going to get their butt kicked by SONY, HandEra, and Handspring?

RE: Sony doesn't expect it to sell
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 9:42:00 PM

Ummmm,
perhaps its not advertized because there are NONE TO BUY!!!!!
Cali is SOLD OUT.
REST of the country has yet to get it.

Lets advertize so frustated masses can go to their local retailer just to be disapointed!!!!

What an idiot.

RE: Sony doesn't expect it to sell
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 12:26:48 PM

Hey Sony/M505 fighters, my CF card has more memory than your memory sticks and SD cards combined.....

(not withstandng the fact that i can still use an SD card on top of that)...

ah, expandability....gotto love it

Handera330 user


Reply to this

Why is that?
Posted by: David Ross @ 5/28/2001 2:04:10 PM

Why is everyone fighting for their handheld? Just use the one you like and leave us alone!
RE: Why is that?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 4:27:54 PM

Because M505 owners are having a hard time right now. They have to keep justifying their M505 purchase to themselves. I think the more choices we have the better. But some M505 owners keep trolling any Clie' article with disparaging remarks about a PDA that most have never seen in real life.

Nobody wins with less choices, we all lose.

RE: Why is that?
Posted by: Gepeto @ 5/28/2001 5:32:33 PM

(David Ross = my Real name when I post from my Palm)
Exactly, but only to some extent. As long as most applications stay compatible with every device, I think the more choice the better. If people start to do Hi-res only applications, that's something else. And I think M505 may be right about the small size of it, but the CLIÉ is NOT a monster, it might be a bit bigger but some people like me don't care, we just want a bright screen with lots of pixels :)

David Ross
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 8:20:32 PM

David Ross? Are you David Ross from MacAddict?

RE: David Ross
Posted by: Gepeto @ 5/28/2001 9:17:25 PM

In fact I'm a student near Montreal. I'd love to have a brand new mac though :P


Reply to this

Clie low color count
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 5:09:11 PM

Somebody posted that the m505 has more possible colors that maximum pixels. I don't think he realizes that most people want this. The Clie with it's 256 color display, has only one different color for every 400 pixels if you fill up the screen evenly with all the colors. Do the math:
320x320=102400 pixels
/256 colors
400 pixels per color.
Now, that's not a very attractive number, is it?


RE: Clie low color count
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 5:29:35 PM

just look at the screen when you can get a hand on one, trust me the screen is much better than the m505, no question about it. No need for all these calculations. Just wait


RE: Clie low color count
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 11:01:37 PM

m505 has 16 bit color, but it looks like there are many layers of screen protector on the screen to dull the color.

RE: Clie low color count
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 2:19:51 AM

Why in the world would we want so much colours? It's a PDA after all, not some video player or photo album. These are just some extra sweet features, and ultimately, I think the higher resolution is more important in the long run.

RE: Clie low color count
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 4:04:12 AM

Here's some more math for you.

A 160x160, 16-bit color device has 25600 pixels and a range of 65536 colors. What do you need all those colors for?

An 8-bit color image, IF DITHERED WELL, can come very close to the quality of a 16-bit image in most cases.

Also, it was not too long ago that we were all playing 320x240 (or 320x200) DOS games in 8-bit VGA. (Kind of puts things in perspective, hm?) I never had any complaints about using a 256 color palette!


Reply to this

SIZE and the STICK
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 6:50:20 PM

It is nice too see that finally a bunch of us geeks finally realize that SIZE DOES MATTER !!

BTW - gotta stay away from memory stick - don't need a box of those to go with my beta machine. Long live CF - usable by more than Sony.

RE: SIZE and the STICK
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 7:24:54 PM

Sony and who else?

Could it be?!

Motorola for those following recent news.

RE: SIZE and the STICK
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 11:11:30 PM

Yeah good call... If Motorola makes the next Dragonball with memory stick support, I see a new standard for the PalmOS. And the next Clie will be sweet too!


Reply to this

RE: battery life
Posted by: Altema @ 5/28/2001 9:09:11 PM

Actually, the advertised battery life for the Sony is is 7.5 hours, The advertised battery life for the Palm M505 is 10.25 hours with mixed sidelight usage. With the sidelight on constantly, the time appears to be between 7 and 9 hours, so you can probably expect about 12 hours if you avoid the using the light at all, which is a flourescent display and should never burn out. Although neither one compares favorably with the III series (the IIIc will do up to 16 hours, IIIxe up to 30 hours), you have to consider the form factor of the M505 (smallest color device in the world), and the extra drain of the audio output on the Sony. What concerns me though, is that Palm OS users are beginning to bash Palm OS users. What gives? Both devices have their strong points and unique features. That's a good thing: we can pick our preferences and be a happy camper, and that does not mean we have to put down everyone else who may have different needs. The Pocket PC cannot gain the ground they want on Palm OS devices, even by giving away Desktop software, giving bribes to Palm supporters, and putting out full page cheap shots. However, Microsoft would love for this infighting to blow up, just so they can something more than their toenail in the PDA market. Open discussion on Palm OS device preferences is great, and the diversity will only make the Palm OS world stronger, but let's keep it civil.
RE: RE: battery life
Posted by: twizza @ 5/29/2001 12:08:03 AM

nicely said.


RE: RE: battery life
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 1:22:30 AM

Yes, I agree with you. I'm just irritated at all the people who are just posting wrong information about the Clie. I really wish people would stop, it's childish and unproductive.

But civility is no fun!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 8:24:36 AM

nt

RE: RE: battery life
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 10:16:43 AM

Debating the relative merits is useful. Ego-driven name calling is a waste of time. I'm pleased with my M505, but I'm glad there's another choice for those with different priorities.

RE: RE: battery life
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 11:10:32 AM

7 ~ 9 hours with sidelight on for M505?
I did a test as soon as I got my 505.
I use AOCtrlDA to keep my 505 on, with the sidelight on, it can only last for 5:49 (just idle, no any program running). If I kept the sidelight off, the battery life was 13:24. Both of them were measured by Runtime.

Is it normal? Can anybody tell me your battery life?

RE: RE: battery life
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 9:49:59 PM

Yeah why are we Palm OS people fighting?

Theres an Ipaq neard over there in the corner. Hes mumbling some Ram/Rom/bits sampling/ geekspeak.

Lets all go after HIM. :)


Reply to this

[ No Subject ]
Posted by: anonymous @ 5/29/2001 6:33:51 AM

Can the 710 actually play movies fluently? Or is this nothing more than an interesting demo of a still unrefined idea? It sounds too cool to be true!
RE: [ No Subject ]
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 4:24:59 PM

Unfortunatly no (but the audio is good). I am not if it is the software problem though!



Reply to this

RE: battery life
Posted by: Altema @ 5/29/2001 9:41:21 AM

Boris, you are right that these are not real world tests, they are indeed constant drain tests. Nobody uses their Palm that way. The only real-world numbers were for the III series of which I've had five. I have seen battery life testing manipulated in pretty extreme ways. One non-Palm organizer claimed to have a battery life of 180 hours continous! Reading the fine print, it turns out that the device was tested in a mode where there the screen was on, with no back light and no processing. Perhaps we could take a moment and standardize the tests. 30 minutes a day in a game demo mode, or something with the processor actually doing something?

Paul Campbell,
Telecommunications Network Engineer

RE: RE: battery life
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 1:00:51 PM

No bad idea at all.

But real life is even different from that.

We should consider once a day to:

Look up 20 addresses
Synchronise wireless to avantgo a given channel amount
Read email 15 minutes
Writing text for 20 minutes

Looks good in theory - but who has the time to do this for a prolonged time?

I would say - lets get on with life and accept the fact that the Palm 50x is a pretty good machine with a acceptable screen and enough battery life to make you comfortable in normal conditions - and let the fine details to the non-power user who crawl even in the last bit.

(Thought for expeditions which are away a prolonged period from their homebase like the one on:
www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=1923
We propose always battery driven Palms / Symbols / HandEra or battery emergency loader)

A power user is the one making the most of his machine by working with it every day and gaining benefit in being more productive or / and have simple good fun

- and not the one disassembling his Ferrari by the day (as only a freak does)
- changing oil and measuring the gas with a stick to calculate the consume

These chaps are avoiding driving around as the tires could get wet.

If the majority of users would more focus on real life problems (the proper software / solutions)and not trying to measure what’s not worth to measure as long at is basically ok- we would have a lot less useless flames and stress.

That’s the way I see it

Boris
www.palmtop-pro.com
--


Another theme: The chaps biting the nickel on this forum (on unimportant theoretical academic arguments) overlook that the product itself is not the mayor cost involved – if you choose the wrong tool (and thats the software) for your work means that you have to spend incredible time and effort later on.


Reply to this

This is REALLY sad
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 9:56:55 AM

I'm reading these post because I need a Palm and NONE of them are the perfect PDA for me. EVERY Palm I've looked at from EVERY manufacturer has some flaw. Handsprings are too big (the Edge is too expensive for being b/w). The Palm m505 screen isn't worth the $. The Clie has no wireless capability, and none planned for the immediate future. It's also NOT Mac compatible even though its USB. The Handera is cool, but again b/w screen and no wireless capability. The Kyocera is nice, but no Mac compatibility, and with the Samsung i300 months away, $500 is alot for a b/w screen. Even with all these visible flaws (give the high price of the "high end" models there is NO reason any of you should be quibbling that one model is better than another. Each has a stong point AND a weak point. In reality, there is very little that a m500 or a Clie can do that an M100 can't do. If you want to watch a movie on your PDA, go ahead. I need to get real productivity and performance for the $ out of whatever PDA I get. If I want to watch a movie I've got a DVD player in my laptop.


Get the m100 if you are cheap, get the m505 if you are not.
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 11:17:28 AM

This isn't rocket science.


RE: This is REALLY sad
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 12:08:41 PM

The Clie is compatible with a USB Macintosh if you get the Markspace (www.markspace.com) Clie Macpak. I use this on my Clie 300 and my brother uses it on his 710 he picked up Saturday at Frys San Diego. Cost is around $30.00.

PS-Sony actually will tell you to buy the Markspace software if you want to use a Clie on a MAC.

It's NOT about being cheap!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 2:08:24 PM

The point is everyone here is bickering over which PDA is the balls out best when NONE of the them are. They ALL have there weak points. I'm not buying ANY Palm now. I'm not alone here. Palm is on hard times because ONLY ubergeeks will tolerate their unimpressive line of PDAs. Give me a M505 with a hi-rez bright color screen, wireless capability to get MY email (not just palm.net), out of the box compatibility with Windows and Mac, add in a few whiz bang features like MP3 and then you might have a PDA worth of $450. Until then its all junk.

You are asking for features that you really don't need.
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 3:35:28 PM

nt

RE: This is REALLY sad
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 10:00:03 PM

Yeah why are we Palm OS people fighting?

Theres an Ipaq neard over there in the corner. He's mumbling some Ram/Rom/bits sampling/ geekspeak.

Lets all go after HIM. :)


RE: This is REALLY sad
Posted by: Chromosome @ 5/30/2001 1:24:11 PM

I love my m505--it's a better fit for my needs than the Sony. I also give a nod to Sony for developing the memory stick (SD/MMC) technology that Palm incorperated into the m50x. Most importantly, thanks to the Clie enthusiasts who developed the software (MSMount, McFile, and PowerRun) that really made the MMC work. It was even a Clie enthusiast who wrote a thread to walk us all through using these progerams last month! For those Clie lovers-enjoy your powerful new device! Functionally superior to my m505 but a little bigger. I respect you and appreciate you. Remember the words of Rodney King.. ;)

Chromosome

RE: This is REALLY sad
Posted by: CarlJ @ 5/30/2001 2:09:41 PM

I agree -- I love my new Clie; it's a better fit for my needs than the m505. I really like the m505 as well, but I am among those disappointed by the screen brightness. If the m505 screen works well for others (or perhaps you received units better/brighter than the demo models I saw), well, hey, that's cool, too.

As far as size goes, from my perspective it was, "hey, cool, the Clie is smaller than my IIIx", rather than, "gack, the Clie is bigger than a Vx". Sure, I'd love to have a Clie screen/backlight in an m505 body, but then I also want a 400mhz StrongARM, 32mb memory, flat-rate wireless Internet connectivity, and OS5... don't we all? :-)

It seems everyone is also arguing the relative merits of MemStick vs. SD/MMC vs. CF... (okay, well, granted, CF wins hands down on IO device support at this point, but you just can't build a CF-sized slot into a m505-sized handheld right now). But I see this as mostly a non-issue at this point, if you use the slot for external memory, and aren't buying / dragging around handfuls of the cards... I'm delighted by how transparently software that uses Palm's VFS API works between the two -- all the Clie MSMount-style software works on the m50x, and things advertised as supporting SD/MMC, like Palm's PalmReader (née PeanutReader), work just fine on my Clie/MemStick.

I'm looking forward to more programs supporting VFS, so you can, for example, keep a 100k dictionary app in main memory that reads from a 10mb database on a MS/SD/MMC/CF card. I'd love to see more document readers be able to directly read documents off the card (like PalmReader), without the use of MSMount or tricks to temporarily copy databases to RAM.


Reply to this

Call/Email Sonystyle and ask why pre-orders weren't shipped!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 2:52:36 PM

orderhelp@sonystyle.com

888-900-9872

Let them know they shouldn't treat their customers
this way. Ask why retails stores are selling them
when their pre-orders (with an announced ship date
of the 28th!!!) are still not shipping!


RE: Call/Email Sonystyle and ask why pre-orders weren't shipped!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 4:27:20 PM

If I recall correctly, Palm did the same thing for m505 (correct me if I am wrong).


RE: Call/Email Sonystyle and ask why pre-orders weren't shipped!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 5:59:36 PM

Does anyone know when will they start shipping the pre-orders?

RE: Call/Email Sonystyle and ask why pre-orders weren't shipped!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 9:37:11 PM

yeah - after everyone else gets theirs at retail.

Call them / Email them - let them know they shouldn't
treat their customers this way.

RE: Call/Email Sonystyle and ask why pre-orders weren't shipped!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 1:00:35 PM

Did you call Palm telling them that they shouldn't do that either?

RE: Call/Email Sonystyle and ask why pre-orders weren't shipped!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 4:42:27 PM

yes.

a pox on both their houses!
and on Staples too, for a $20 pre-order fee
that got you nothing.


Reply to this

Choices
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 4:35:26 AM

I am new to the world of PDA's following a IIIXE for Xmas last year. Like many of the commentators here, I quickly became an avid fan and tossed my self-printed paper planner. I am now trying to figure out which PDA to upgrade to. I need "power organizing" but I also appreciate "quality distractions" to fill the space between connecting flights. I do not however need to watch DVD's or view professional photographs on my PDA. Despite the critcism regarding the backlight, I was leaning towards the m505. I am happy for any pointers available for this newcomer and would like to know what other kinds of "plug-ins" are likely to be made available for the m505? Is it possible that a mp3 plug-in could produced in the same manner as PDA cameras? Is there a good site that has an easily digestible "head-to-head" comparison? These may be silly questions but greatful for any info.

Get a USA-Made m505. Use EasyView from PalmGear.com
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 9:04:17 AM

You will love it. Great upgrade from your III.



Reply to this

A wireless modem?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 2:13:52 PM

And when is the Sony Clié going to get a wireless modem? I got the Palm m505 because of Minstrel's support of the Palm platform. They've announced a wireless modem for the Palm m505, what good will the extra resolution be if you can't surf the web with the Clié? No thanks, but I'll take a Palm m505 with a Mistrel m500 and Blazer to surf the web wireless. The Sony Clié is just too limitied for me.


RE: A wireless modem?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 2:49:16 PM

I already have a wireless modem that works great with my Clie' ( as well as all of my Visors, Palms and PPCs). It is called a Nokia 8290 GSM phone. It works with any of my organizers via IR. It works with Palm's Mobile Internet Kit.

I was one of the original beta testers for OmniSky and used them until about three months ago. Bad software, bulky device and sporadic connections finally made me come to my senses. The phone makes a much better wireless modem.

Yeh! Who needs a Wireless modem, NOT ME!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 3:51:52 AM

Exactly what I was thinking,
I have a GSM cell phone with IR, which cost me nothing more than my phone contract, and it doubles as a modem for my PALMs.

RE: A wireless modem?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 10:24:45 AM

To the Wireless GSM phone users... What wireless service can you use the phones with in the U.S.? Sprint, Verizon, Voicestream, or others?
Thanks...
(Have a Palm V now, Still trying to decide between Clie N710C, Palm 505, or maybe, yes, even the iPaq)

RE: A wireless modem?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 11:05:53 AM

I am in San Jose, CA and use Cingular (formerly Pacific Bell).

Sprint Solution
Posted by: dstrauss @ 5/31/2001 2:02:30 PM

I just bought an all-in-one cable from www.thesupplynet.com which connects my Palm Vx to my Samsung 8500 cell phone. I enabled Wireless Web ($10 per month plus using cell minutes vs. $.39 per minute plus using minutes) and it works great for reaching email, but very slow for web surfing (19.2 +/-). You don't even need a dialup internet account, as you can quick connect to the Sprint net. For example, three short (one paragraph) email downloads and a single upload took 52 seconds (under the magic 1 minute useage). Not as seemless as an all-in-one phone, but for $50 for a cable, a lot cheaper.

RE: A wireless modem?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 3:48:53 PM

I don't consider a GSM phone a very simple or efficient solution for wireless access. The Minstrel m500 modem clips right onto the Palm and doesn't use any power from the Palm itself. IR communication for a sustained period will probably drain the battery a little faster. If there were a data cable solution it might be better, but you still have to fumble with two devices and a cable. The Mistrel adds only ounces to the back of the Palm and they clip together. Adding more weight to the Sony Clié would make it the heaviest PDA out there short of a PocketPC or laptop. We need some SIMPLE solutions for wireless access!

RE: A wireless modem?
Posted by: fleegle @ 5/31/2001 11:34:18 PM

"I am in San Jose, CA and use Cingular (formerly Pacific Bell)."

Which plan are you using? Does it use your voice minutes?

RE: A wireless modem?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 6/1/2001 2:03:39 AM

The way that Cingular works in CA is to add on a service called "PCS Data Connect". This is a second number that uses the data line for the phone. This means that it can also receive incoming data calls and faxes. On my phone it just pipes them out over IR if I accept the call.

The plan costs 4.99 per maonth and $.15 per minute of connect time. For me based on the 5 minutes or less per day that I averaged on the OmniSky, I am saving a huge amount of money. In the last four months, it has already paid for the phone. Connection strength is also much stronger than I ever got off of the OmniSky.


Reply to this

N710C at Best Buy!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 3:20:39 PM

For those of us east of Arizona with Fry's envy, I just wanted to let you know that I picked up my N710C at Best Buy this afternoon (5/30), so I would guess they should be all around the US by the end of the week.


RE: N710C at Best Buy!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 4:11:29 PM

Which Best Buy?


RE: N710C at Best Buy!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 5:02:45 PM

In a suburb of Chicago. Sorry for not mentioning the location.

RE: N710C at Best Buy!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 7:00:07 PM

Also in Mich, at the Dearborn Best Buy!

RE: N710C at Best Buy!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 10:36:09 AM

What is Best Buys return policy? I have an m505 that I got from OD and their return was 14 days

RE: N710C at Best Buy!
Posted by: LeshMan @ 5/31/2001 8:27:52 PM

I just went to the Best Buy on North May in Oklahoma City and they got two N710c's: one for demo purposes, and I bought the other one. They also let me trade in my old Palm Vx and get $280 towards the Clie!!!

RE: N710C at Best Buy!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 8:43:20 PM

North Olmsted, Ohio (suburb of Cleveland) has a few too. They just got it this afternoon. However their demo still isn't charged up.

RE: N710C at Best Buy!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 6/1/2001 10:43:04 PM

Thanks for the tip in North Olmsted. I traveled there tonight to see it in person from Medina, Oh. Unfortunately, the unit was not charged and I was not able to view the screen. Ugghhh!!! The salesperson suggested that I stop by tomorrow and he would try to remember to charge it overnight. I own a M505 and was very curious to see the screen and compare it to my unit. Personally, I'm very happy w/ my m505 and plan to keep it but just curious on what the Clie has to offer.


Reply to this

Best Buy in stock date
Posted by: Rob Zimmerman @ 5/31/2001 3:59:00 PM

The new Clie is now in stock in a few Best Buy stores. I work at Best Buy and my store has it..YES!!! I am buying it now it rules. By sunday it should be in all stores.
Reply to this

CASE
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 6:09:15 PM

What does the case with the clie look like? is it one of those slip on things or does it attach to the unit like the palms so you dont have to take the thing in and out?

Anyone have a picture?

Thanks

go the the web site you lazy F
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 6/1/2001 10:23:54 AM

nt



Reply to this

THE TOP INSTUMENT
Posted by: NARONGSAK @ 6/1/2001 9:53:19 AM

should have data of sony cin7
RE: THE TOP INSTUMENT
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 6/1/2001 10:57:47 AM

uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


WHAT ?

You speaka english ?


Reply to this


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RE: m505 prices
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/2/2001 12:01:15 PM #
Don't forget to bring a printout of the morevideo site with overnight shipping of the Palm to Staples--they'll price match (that's how i got mine with the earlier low-price deal of about $417). It works out to about $400 for the m505 in this case to OR.

Good luck. The m505 is a great unit--color is another dimension in PDA devices.

RE: m505 prices
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/3/2001 6:11:53 AM #
size does matter!!DUH! Buy the palm m505

Outpost Offer is Only Good Through June 15th

Smartmoose @ 5/31/2001 1:00:26 PM #
...not July. Nonetheless, it's a pretty good deal. Thanks for the tip.

RE: Outpost Offer is Only Good Through June 15th
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/2/2001 1:43:02 AM #
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 4:13:41 PM

I saw it here first, it seems to be a new bulletin board.

http://www.infosync.no/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi

RE: battery life
Posted by: Cheetah @ 5/28/2001 1:40:04 AM

interesting charts. Shows 505 with and without backlight on vs. PPC in a battery test.

505 with backlight on has similiar battery life then the other PPC. But without backlight, the 505 has over TWICE the battery life.

This is exactly the point! 505 does not need backlight on all the time (not in direct sunlight and in good indoor light) therefore the battery life is much better then PPC in the practical world.

I love my 505 and only use backlight when in poor lighting. In the office the screen is fine without the backlight.

I would also say that the 505 with the backlight on in a dark room (e.g. movie theater) is 1000% better then the reverse backlight of the Palm Vx.


Reply to this

Clie N710C availability
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 5:11:04 PM

As of 05/26 1:10 PM

Sunnyvale -- Out (confirmed by sale person)
Palo Alto -- Out (confirmed by sale person)
San Jose -- around 6 in the shelf (they have 12 in stock originally)

RE: Clie N710C availability
Posted by: CarlJ @ 5/26/2001 9:52:09 PM

As of 05/26 around noon, San Diego Frys:

I believe there were four in stock when I first walked past the shelf to go look at the demo model; when I came back to pick up a box there were three left (including the one I took), then when I walked past 30 minutes later before getting in the checkout line, the shelf was bare :-)

RE: Clie N710C availability
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 5:42:53 AM

The Fremont Fry's is also carrying them, however when you call them and ask to see if they are in stock they won't know what you are talking about. Try giving them the item number: 3011669 they can look it up in their computers that way.

They do have it on display for those who want to compare the m505 screen and the Clie screen. I must admit, I've been playing with mine for several hours and it rocks. :)


Reply to this

Great Photos
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 7:27:01 PM

Check these out!!

These are comparing the IPAQ, CLIE, and Palm m505

http://briefcase.yahoo.com/dreamwave6


Clie is 2x thickness of m505.
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 8:23:27 PM

http://y42.briefcase.yahoo.com/dreamwave6


RE: Great Photos
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 11:08:56 AM

The Clie is twice as thick as the m505, but it's not as wide. It actually fits in the typical jeans pocket BETTER.

RE: Great Photos
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 12:44:57 PM

Its thinker, yes, but not TWICE as think! The clie is thinner then two m505 stacked on each other.
m505 .5" Clie .66" [505 x 2 = 1 INCH]

RE: Clie is 2x thickness of m505.
Posted by: CarlJ @ 5/29/2001 6:54:04 PM

The Clie is 5/8 inch thick, the m505 is 1/2 inch. That's a difference of 1/8 inch, or 25 PERCENT, not "twice as thick". The m505 is also about 1/8 inch shorter, and 3/8 inch WIDER than the Clie.

I pre-ordered the m505 (the night before they were announced); I cancelled when they started showing up in the stores and I saw first-hand how dim the screen was. I went to see the new Clie on Saturday, not intending to buy it, just to look... and ended up plunking down my money and taking one home (this, after comparing the "floor model" extensively against the m505 sitting next to it; I had a friend with me, she wanted to know where the brightness control was on the m505).

The Clie is smaller than my old Palm IIIx (a teensy bit shorter, 3/8 inch narrower, the same thickness), and has by far the best screen ever seen on a PalmOS handheld. I'm running with the backlight at about 25 percent -- at 100 percent, you could use it as a flashlight. At 320x320, the screen is simply breathtaking, and at 160x160, there is _no_ trace of the dreaded "black grid".

If the m505 had the Clie's backlight (I'm not talking about the hi-res screen, mind you, just the bright, adjustable, backlight), I would have gotten the m505 instead (weeks ago) -- I *like* the m505, it's sleek and sexy, and will no doubt be more widely supported. But, to me, the whole point of color is to make the information on the screen easier to read, and I found the m505's dim screen to be an impediment, not a benefit.

Folks, it's time to stop all the bickering; wait until you have a chance to compare the Clie and m505 side-by-side in a store somewhere, and *then* decide which is best for *you*.

RE: Great Photos
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 1:04:56 AM

If we bicker the only one who wins is Bill Gates.


Reply to this

The new Sony
Posted by: Edd @ 5/26/2001 8:05:14 PM

Hi, I just went to Fry's in Manhattan Beach to see the new color Clie and when we were there, we beamed the Photosuite and some pictures from our M505 just so we can compare them side by side. The resolution on the new Sony is awesome, not only the fonts look smoother on the Sony but also the pictures. There are no jagged edges on the fonts (not that I can see). The only thing is Sony can only display 256 colors and the Palm has more (16 bits).

When comparing side by side you can clearly see the Palm has more richer color display (but dimmer). Supposedly, the Japanese version of the Clie has more features than the one imported here. :(

Hey Edd,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 8:54:11 PM

quote from Edd: "Supposedly, the Japanese version of the Clie has more features than the one imported here. :("

What features are you talking about?

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: Edd @ 5/26/2001 9:31:27 PM

According to this Sony website in Japan http://www.sony.co.jp/sd/ProductsPark/Consumer/PEG/PEG-N700C/tv.html You're supposed to be able to download and watch TV on your Clie. I didn't see that mention anywhere on the USA box at Fry's.

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 9:36:29 PM

Go to www.genericmedia.com and download the app that Sony is packaging with it's Japanese CLIE. Get the Palm movie player and their movie maker. If you already have a TV-tuner card and WinVCR or something like that, you should be able to do it. Of course, you could just go buy this VAIO desktop from Sony specifically designed to record television programs instead of using your own TV-tuner card and WinVCR: http://www.sonystyle.com/vaio/digitalstudio/index.html

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 9:41:40 PM

Here ya' go...direct link: http://www.genericmedia.com/news_pr09.html

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: Edd @ 5/26/2001 9:49:40 PM

Thanks. Now let me go return my M505 :) while it still within 14 days return period at Staples.

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 9:59:30 PM

Remember, to have the Japanese have with their CLIE's, you'll have to have a large harddrive to capture a 1-hour long TV show or a really big one to capture a 2-hour long movie, then you'll have to have a much higher capacity Memory Stick than the 8MB one that comes with the CLIE. The 64MB Memory Stick goes for around $100 on eBay and the newer 128MB Memory Sticks go for around $200. These prices will come down eventually but as you can see it is going to be an expensive proposition to make the CLIE a portable movie player, which is EXACTLY what I plan to use mine for :)

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 10:26:24 PM

Try this out !!!

Using a program called HRCapt (DA Program)
located at:
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/fairy/chimer...OthersPalm.html
(it's in japanese),
I made several screen captures of my N710C Clie in various modes and pictures.
THe program captures Hi resolution as well as low, i've posted the pictures at:

http://members.nbci.com/nxt/clie710...0screencap.html

and yes, this IS a REAL screen capture from n710c

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 10:44:38 PM

Can't get your page up

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 10:44:38 PM

Can't get your page up

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 11:10:31 AM

Also, the nipponese clie doesn't play MP3. The American one does.

MP3
Posted by: Edd @ 5/27/2001 11:56:46 AM

Hmm.. I thought it does according to this page:

http://www.sony.co.jp/sd/ProductsPark/Consumer/PEG/PEG-N700C/music.html

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:23:55 PM

I realize the Sony has Mp3, Attrac, etc. play back; however, will these movies be encoded with sound via gMovie Maker and can they be played back with sound on gMovie Player?

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:25:44 PM

One other question, how big would say an hour long show encoded in MPEG-1 wind up. In other words, how much could you fit on a 128 meg memory stick?

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:44:45 PM

I saw the new Sony at a local Fry's and was impressed. The size and weight between the 505 and the N710c were comparable, one's a little wider, the other a little thicker. The screen was obviously sharper on the Sony, but when comparing the color, the Palm was actually richer. I was surprised. The brightness is great on the Clie, but the colors look washed out. Is there any way of increasing the contrast?

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 9:00:01 PM

Nope!

RE: 1-hr mpeg
Posted by: vgz @ 5/28/2001 1:12:37 AM

>>One other question, how big would say an hour long show encoded in MPEG-1 wind up. In other words, how much could you fit on a 128 meg memory stick?

It would depend on the frame rate but I have several mpeg files and a 50minute 17 sec mpeg is 489.6 MB. Good luck getting that on a memorystick.


Matt

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 3:07:02 PM

The Japanese 700 plays ONLY ATRAC3 format on white copy-protection memory sticks.

The American 710 plays ATRAC3 (bleah!) or MP3, and it can store MP3s on the cheaper, non-encrypted blue sticks.

Matt...gMovie Maker converts PC video files to gMovie format
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 7:49:34 PM

with sound. The gMovie Maker reformats the video to 320x320 resolution. A decent quality picture at a decent frame rate will get you about 1 minute of video with sound for every 1MB on the MS. Thus, a 128MB MS will let you watch a 2-hour movie.

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: eipangan @ 5/28/2001 9:27:04 PM

Starting June 18, users of the Japanese model can now download MediaPlayer 2.0, which can play MP3 off the blue stick. The download is priced at 2,000 yen but is on sale for the first few months - 1,500 yen.

Screenshots? Bah!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 6:54:51 PM

Ummm... You could put a bullet through the front of the Clie and the screenshots would look the same. Those do not show what the Clie's display does, it shows us what our computer moniors do.


Reply to this

Clie is big!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 10:48:55 PM

Holy cow! That thing is a monster! I though it would be closer to the palm m505, but it's beast! Be prepared to have a heavy, metal object (basically an iPaq in size) in your pocket if you get one of these. Screen is ok though, but not as vivid as described.


RE: Clie is big!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:42:04 AM

What do you base your comments about screen quality on??


RE: Clie is big!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 11:11:19 AM

Nope. It's nowhere near as big as an iPaq.

It's thicker than an m505, but not as thick as a Visor Prism. And because of the reduced width, it's very pocketable.

RE: Clie is big!
Posted by: TvM @ 5/27/2001 8:06:49 PM

It is plastic

RE: Clie is big!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 11:06:40 PM

It's NOT plastic!! It's metal... at least the front is, not sure about the back. You people should stop makig all these statements if you don't have anything to back it up.

RE: Clie is big!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 2:28:59 AM

Yes, stop those crap comments without proof! I own a Clie N700C, and having it put side by side with the iPaq, the size difference is great! Whoever says that they are the same, basically, you have neither seen both devices, or maybe never even seen them before!

Yes, its thicker than the 505, but its way thinner than Prism. Its in between. With the case on, m505 will be as thick as the Clie (with the flip cover on)

ON the other hand, the Clie is narrower, so it appears smaller, and it is thus very pocketable (in the pants pocket, not the shirt)


Reply to this

reseting
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 11:12:35 PM

how do i do a hard reset on my new clie ?


RE: reseting
Posted by: Shane @ 5/27/2001 6:05:57 AM

Your Clie come with a book called Instructions. If you turn to the first few pages you will find the Contents. If you look for resetting in there and turn to the right page it will explain how to do it.


RE: reseting
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:43:10 AM

LOL!! The questions some people ask! Hmm..2-10 hrs to get a reply to a post, vs 4 mins to look it up in the manual......decisions, decisions....


Reply to this

Here are the Links
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 12:27:29 AM

This is nXt btw, Mike Cane earlier posted some of my websites, unfortunately Geocities killed my account because I had some files!
The new pages are at the following

Mini Review:
http://members.nbci.com/nxt/clie710/710review.html

Screen Captures: <-- Must See
http://members.nbci.com/nxt/clie710/710screencap.html

Digital Camera Pictures:
http://members.nbci.com/nxt/clie710/cliepicture.html

RE: Here are the Links
Posted by: mikecane @ 5/27/2001 1:31:37 PM

Thanks, nXt! I should have read the board completely before I posted the other links above. These new ones seem to work.


RE: Here are the Links
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 10:11:40 PM

Thanks so much nXt for the screen capture pics. I was hoping that somewhere on the net would be some screen captures. Please add more when you have time.

I see you enlarged a 160x160 pic to the size of the 320x320 pic for comparison, but can you do it the other way around please? Reduce the hi res to the same size as low res so they can be compared that way too.

Thanks again! Good work.

RE: Here are the Links
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 3:56:23 AM

When enlarging the 160x160 screenshots in Photoshop, you should use Nearest Neighbor interpolation instead of Bicubic. This will accurately represent pixel-doubling.


Reply to this

Size!
Posted by: Cheetah @ 5/27/2001 6:22:01 AM

Hmmmm...more vibrant screen (although not 16bit), BUT much thicker, longer, and heavier!

That's the point of the 505. It has color yet retains it's small size and good battery life.

I've used my 505 for two weeks now and love it.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 6:50:36 AM

I agree about the size. Much as I tried to like the iPaq, the size issue was a killer for me. I use my m505 alot and just could not see carrying an iPaq like device around all day.

It may be fine for those who carry it from desk to meeting, to desk and home. But as a sales professional who lives with it - no way. People forget that is what Palm had in mind when it balanced the features of the device.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:47:08 AM

It may be thicker, but many new owners have said it fits the hand better than the 505

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 11:12:40 AM

Check it out before you write it off as bulky. The size is actually very good in actual use.

RE: Size!
Posted by: Edd @ 5/27/2001 12:02:06 PM

It fits comfortably in my hand and it slightly narrower than my M505 (so that you can use your thumb to operate the jog dial). Then new jog dial now has the back button (the monochrome one didn't have that) and it comes with PowerJog.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 12:50:20 PM

I have used it, and IT IS BIGGER, period. It is twice and thick, grab a ruler and check, I did. Yes it is slightly less in width, but does not make up for the depth. My PalmV was in a titanium hard case and I had it in my front pocket always, in the hard case it was still thinner than the clie, now I have the m505, and size wise it win hands down. Nothing fits in my pocket better.

Just my opinion. To each his own.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 12:58:42 PM

what is the point of carrying it around and the screen is annoying to look at?

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 1:23:06 PM


Hee hee hee

I love how we always get of the subject ,turn things around and make it us against them .LOL =)This makes me laugh alot.

Very antertaining .

Thanx

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 1:25:01 PM

What is the point of having a beautiful screen to look at if you never carry it around with you because it is too bulky?

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 1:52:29 PM

hahahah, palm company is dying and their customers are trashing each other products, PPC won heheheheeh I like it

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 2:27:24 PM

The CLIE's thickness is .03" thinner than the very portable visor deluxe form factor. The CLIE is not a brick. You people are a bunch of whinning, anorexic wimps!!

Hey, two 3x5 cards would really dissapear in your pants pocket. Just carry a few of those around and quit whining.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 7:39:28 PM

Clie thickness is 1.68 in, width is 7.1 in
M505 thickness is 1.27 in, width is 7.874 in

And when you are holding a PDA, the important parameters are the width and height (where width is more important than height). Simple math for calulcating the length to fit into your palm

width for Clie is 7.1 in
width for M505 is 7.874 in
The difference is 0.774 in (Clie win)

thickness for Clie is 1.68 in
thickness for M505 is 1.27 in
The difference is .41 in (M505 win)

width + 2 * thickness for Clie is 10.46 in
width + 2 * thickness for M505 is 10.414 in

The difference is 0.046 in (M505 win).

If you calculate the perimeter

2*width + 2 * thickness for Clie is 17.56 in
2*width + 2 * thickness for M505 is 18.288 in

The difference is 0.728 in (Clie win).

Of course, volume wise, Clie is still a little larger, but it is not as what some people claimed it to be BULKIER, HEAVIER. Sounds like Clie is way too big but it is not.

Besides the weight difference is only 20 g, if you put an MP3 plyer in M505, see how much that gonna weight?

M505 is definitely a loser compared to Clie (except for the 20g weight differnce and slightly larger form factor), now many people have seen the amaing screen and have learned that the Clie width is actually much narrower than M505, the proud M505 owners are whining about the thickness and weight? And that is the only valuable thing left for M505?

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:31:42 PM

Oops, the important parameters should be width and "thickness", not height.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:33:03 PM

I think the biggest loser of all is the person who computed all that. Do you plan to keep your Clie in your pocket protector?

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:50:04 PM

I have Clie N710C here with me, it fits into shirt pocket well. Have you seen the Clie with your own eyes and hold it with your own palm actually?

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 10:02:11 PM

I would love to see someone put a couple of 3 by 5 index cards in their shirt pocket, I can barely understand putting a m505 in, even if it does fit. Putting a Clie in your shirt pocket (as I have seen the size at a OD with a demo unit) would be the epitome of dorkiness.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 11:47:14 PM

>I think the biggest loser of all is the person who computed all that. Do you plan to keep your Clie in your pocket protector?<

He was just giving facts to support his claims of the CLie's size not speculations like everyone else

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 10:15:08 AM

Who ever calculated that is WRONG "thickness for Clie is 1.68 in thickness for M505 is 1.27 in" My m505 is only .5 IN thick!!! the m505 is not over 1 and a quarter inches!!!

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 12:26:16 PM

That would be 1.27 cm
0.5 inches x 2.54 cm/inch = 1.27 inches


RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 12:27:55 PM

Now I've done it:
0.5 inches x 2.54 cm/inch = 1.27 cm

Sorry

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 1:19:57 PM

why don't you guys just wait and hold both of them in your palm and then determine instead of doing all these silly calculations.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 3:09:27 PM

Geezus Christmas, children, GET A LIFE.

If you're so insecure that you have to trash other peoples' choices to justify your own, I pity you.

(And as for the "PPC win" comment, under 10% markeshare is winning? Must have made that calculation on an original Pentium. :-)

(Now see, you've lowered me to your level.. :-)

Biggest losers
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 2:06:45 AM

>I think the biggest loser of all is the person who computed all that. Do you plan to keep your Clie in your pocket protector?<

Actually, I believe the biggest losers are all those people that are calling the Clie "too big to carry around", the Clie "is as big as am iPAQ" and "the Clie is twice as thick as the m505". These are obviously not true. I think the motives behind people who post these comments feels so threaten by the Clie because it's better than their m505.

Come-on people, it's a handheld!! I understand if you are posting a legitimate complaint, but purposely making false statements just because there's a better product?!?!? That's the definition of a loser!!

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 10:22:53 AM

Actually, you have it backwards. People did nothing but bash the m505 for its dim screen, and hyped up the Clie to unrealistic expectations.

Now that the Clie is out, and people can compare them, the m505 holds its own against the Clie. Unless you want a brick sized MP3 player included, that is.

It is the Clie owners who now feel they have to justify their purchases, and will lash out against anyone who has something good to say about the m505.

Don't even start with the "its got a 320x320 screen..." arguement. Palm will integrate a high rez scrren into its future offerings when it feels that the processor can handle the higher resolution without slowing the hanheld down to a crawl. Plus they will give us high resolution AND 16 bit color in the future.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 12:27:12 PM

>Don't even start with the "its got a 320x320
>screen..." arguement. Palm will integrate a high rez
>scrren into its future offerings when it feels that
>the processor can handle the higher resolution
>without slowing the hanheld down to a crawl. Plus
>they will give us high resolution AND 16 bit color in
>the future.

Actually, YOU are really searching....

The majority of the feedback from actual Clie N710C owners have been positive as are the reviews from creditable from major tech. news sources. So there's no need to justify the Clie.

There is, however, a need to justify why the hell did someone pay $450 for an m505, while for $50 more they could've gottenso much more.

Oh, by the way...the Clie has a hardware video accelerator that speeds the 320x320 resolution up. From people who have tested the Clie, they obtain a benchmark of 207%!!! That's the speed of a visor platinum. The benchmark of the m505 was benchmarked at around 150%. So not only does the Clie have 320x320 resolution, it's actually faster than the m505.

And...speaking of the new processor...did you read that the new ARM processor will have built-in memory stick compatibilty?

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 3:26:05 PM

It is definitely not a legitimate comparison to benchmark 2 PDA's running different versions of the same OS. Clie=3.52 m505=4.0. Visor-3.5+

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 4:09:35 PM


So you mean 4.0 is slower than 3.5?

Correction: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 4:16:37 PM

Oops, that should be 1.27 cm for m505 thickness and 1.68 cm for Clie thickness. Sorry about the mistake!!

A benchmark is a benchmark
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 1:01:15 PM

>It is definitely not a legitimate comparison to >benchmark 2 PDA's running different versions of the >same OS. Clie=3.52 m505=4.0. Visor-3.5+

What difference does that make? Since it is the same OS but different versions, the benchmark 2.0 is compatible, that's all that matters. If look at the relative speed data on the benchmark, it listed both machines running Palm OS 3.2 and 3.5, aren't those different version of the same OS?


Reply to this

Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 12:36:06 PM

I’ve looked at all these pics of the Ipaq, Clie and M505 screen quality. I like all three machines if you could believe that but, I was willing to sacrifice some features for the reason that I value size the most…Said that, I need help to understand Why isn’t possible to have a contrast setting on the m505? Since it seams that the Ipaq and the Clie have similar types of screens???(Lit the same way so, it seams to me)

Can some one help me to have a better understanding how the clie or I paq were able to accomplish this and not palm…?

Thank you
730…=O)~


RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 1:16:59 PM

Great Question:
I too would like to know the answer Ed can you help with this one?Thanx


RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 2:41:53 PM

This was done on purpose in order to optimize battery life and the color screen.

If users were able to adjust the brightness, then the battery life would suffer and folks would be unhappy with the results.

RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:40:16 PM

Do you actually believe what you are talking about yourself? "If there is a button for brightness, then the battery life will be shorter", you think people are idiot, they don't know how to turn the brightness down when there are enough lights? This is ridiculous!!

RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:57:48 PM

I would have to agree!
That was a pretty dumb statement.
That the consumers meaning us would not be smart enough to know when to turn off the contrast button which would shorten battery life and palm based there decision on that.
Good one lets hear another.
I need a laugh.


RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 10:02:58 AM

To answer your question, yes I believe in what I am talking about.

Let me answer your question with a question. Why do you think there is no contrast option? Do you think it was an oversight on Palm's part? Do you really think Palm "forgot" to put in an option which has been in all the other palms before this one? I don't think so.
So if they didn't forget, and they didn't include it, the answer that best fits the situation is they set it for the optimal combination of battery life and screen brightness.

If you disagree with me, why not ask Palm? I'm sure by now they have received calls from folks asking how to adjust the contrast.

RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 11:31:14 AM

Let me use a question to answer your question too. What will you explain if Palm put a brightness control in the next verson of m505? "Oh!!! Palm listens to the customer?"

I have dropped by Frys many times to look at different PDAs, everytime when people looked at m505, most of them tried to find the brightness control to see if they could make it brighter.

If Palm decided not to include the brightness adjustment because of the reason you mentioned, I guess that is a big mistake!!

RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 1:56:17 PM

I will have to agree with the comments above you do have some valid points. Re: reasons that m505 did not come with a contrast button but if some third party app would come out to be able to change the setting of brightness-if this is at all possible he or she would make Bank! I would purchase it! In a heart beat.

RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 2:03:07 PM

"What will you explain if Palm put a brightness control in the next verson of m505? "Oh!!! Palm listens to the customer?""

The next version of the m505 may very well have a contrast control. It may also have a soft graffiti screen, 320x320 resolution and/or a better battery. And yes it would be due to customer demand. These are all hardware changes and some or all will probably be included in upcoming models. I don't think you will be seeing a contrast button in the current OS however.

RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 2:20:21 AM

IF there's a next version of the m505!!! Palm is sinking fast. They are "re-thinking" their strategy. They might pull out of the high-end market and focus on the low-end m100's.

RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 9:51:26 AM

Rather than letting us just speculate about Palm's reasoning, someone from Palm should step forward and explain the choices that they made with the M505. I have seen some very good posts from Handera explaining the design tradeoffs they made on their new model (color vs. black and white, etc.). In the absence of any statement from Palm we can only assume they think we're too dumb to handle a brightness control.

RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 4:04:16 PM

I guess it is due to the energy crisis!! So user can not adjust the brightness to drain power fast!!

Great idea, now the federal government should order all the lamp manufacturer to make a fix lamp so that the energy deficiency can be alleviated!


Reply to this

Size
Posted by: Volcano @ 5/27/2001 1:58:08 PM

I have had my M505 for 3 weeks now and use it for many houre everyday. I am a Operations Mgr. for PepsiCo and have many contacts, direct reporte, to do lists, e-mail, word docs, spreadsheets etc. that I must have at my finger tips instantly. The 505 packs it all. Every time I take it out of my pocket, I am still amazed by the size (absoulutly small). I had heard a lot about the sub-par screen and got caught up in the "hysteria" and actually went back to BEST BUY to trade it cor an IPAQ but the IPAQ was too big, the software too "awkward" and actually the M505 screen was to-me sharper under many more light conditions w/o fumbling w/contrast controls. I kept my 505 and I am still impressed w/it everyday!
RE: Size
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 2:52:23 PM

I totally agree; morningstar1844@hotmail.com
For the size you cannot beat it!


Volcano, Pepsi & Palmtop-pro
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 4:38:30 PM

Hi Volcano!

We are the premium mobile computing hardcopy magazine in Europe and would love to print your impression as manager at pepsico on the m505.

Please contact me directly:
Boris Michael von Luhovoy
publishing editor
Palmtop-pro magazine

bmv.luhovoy@nextra.at

for more information on us please visit:
www.palmtop-pro.com/index1.htm

(sorry folks - german only)

Please see also our story on the polarstern icebreaker & palm on:
www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=1923


RE: Size
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 3:11:42 PM

But why discuss the admittedly cool m505 in a Clie topic?

As for Pepsi, could you PLEASE do something to make Diet Pepsi not taste so crappy? I hate it when restaurants give the "no coke, pepsi" line. :-)

RE: M505
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 4:22:49 PM

Because M505 owners are having a hard time right now. They have to keep justifying their M505 purchase to themselves. I think the more choices we have the better. But some M505 owners keep trolling any Clie' article with disparaging remarks about a PDA that most have never seen in real life.

Nobody wins with less choices, we all lose.


Reply to this

Size
Posted by: seaaa @ 5/27/2001 3:14:11 PM

I agree with you Vol. my M505 is great. When ever I use it at work (constantly) it gets "oos and ahhs", awesome size, incredible expandbility ans color. I take it absoulutly every where, hiking, workouts, shopping and forget it's there. My brother works for Micro soft and they all have IPAQs, I beat him hands down pulling up basic applications faster while his IPAQ gets hung up on programs he accidently hit etc. Also he often does'nt have his IPAQ ("Too big to lug around!").
Reply to this

battery life?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 4:11:38 PM

Who knows the battery life of these three devices: Ipaq, clie710c and 505? Now I am more concerning about this rather than the size and screen quality. Different people have different preferences, for meI prefer a smaller size device, although I envy the screen quality of the clie. Yes I am a proud m505 owner.


RE: battery life?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 4:51:37 PM

Don't envy the screen of the Clie, you can only look at it for about 2-3 hours a charge running applications. It's not worth the bulkiness, the 256-color display, and they low battery life. Go with the m505, it treats you right.


RE: battery life?(Clie N700C and m505)
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 5:11:06 PM

As a author of BatteryBench, I tested both devices
(CLIE is japanese model N700C)

I tested both in normal mode of BatteryBench( it runs 1 second
and only display for 9 seconds)

N700C
backlight off : 16 hours
backlight minimum: 10 hours
backlight maximum: 6 hours

m505
backlight off : 15 hours
backlight on : 6.5 hours

FYI
m100: 40 hours
HandEra 330: 36 hours


YAMADA Tatsushi
Hacker dude-san
http://simple-palm.com


RE: battery life?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:46:14 PM

"It can only last 2-3 hours",

that is with playing mp3 and front light on. without front light, it last 11 hours for playing MP3. I think for normal usage, it should be even longer.

RE: battery life?
Posted by: JET8810 @ 5/27/2001 9:31:25 PM

wow...the handera gets 36 hours of battery life?!?!?! Is that just looking up adresses or games...also, using a cf modem and keyboard would drain the battery much.,..quicker...right?

RE: battery life?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 10:47:29 PM

> HE330, 36 hours with CF modem?

No, but you can plug the 330 into the wall and run it for as long as you like.

Bob


RE: battery life?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 2:43:30 AM

Clie lasts only 2 - 3 hours?
Another misinformed idiot making unfounded comments.
The clie can last as long as the m505, my dear friends.
I have used both, tried both.
Unless you play MP3 with the screen on, it will drain in 3 hours, else typical usage will last you at least one week. (1 hour a day on average)

RE: battery life?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 2:10:48 AM

Obviously you are another idiot who doesn't read people's comments in full. Why not scroll up and read again what he wrote?

RE: battery life!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 3:52:57 AM

After conducting real world tests we found that the battery life of a Palm is much longer as in any statistic.

The test results shown above are most probably conducted in a continuous mode e.g. running a program and measuring continuos until the battery is exhausted.
This puts on a battery an artificial (not a real world) drain. Thought there is no other standard to measure it has to be seen what ist is: As very rough comparing tool somehow probably ok or not (depends how you look at the data), it shows something but holds no water in real use as it reflects not the day to day PDA life.

Anyhow – the test as conducted here has probably some meaning, as there is no other known proper way to measure – even thought this does not reflect the real world performance.

In real world you flip the Palm open, look up your data and close down. This gives the battery the ability to recreate and gain when in off mode.

Our (out of the stomach and not 100% replicable) tests have shown, that the M500 runs up to about 21 hours in real world with light of – But that’s something widely depending on the individual users individual behaviour. So it is safe to say that the Palm has not only a very good real world performance but a superior one.

Like a RollsRoyce vendor answers a question to the horsepower of a Silvercloud with a disgusted but conclusive:

Enough power in any situation ... Sir'

Boris
Palmtop-pro Magazine
publishing editor
www.palmtop-pro.com


Reply to this

16bit M505 vs 8bit Clie
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 9:50:39 PM

I think people who compare these two don't realize there ain't much difference to the naked eye. As ED have reviewed, he cannot tell the difference from a 256 color picture and one of 16bit color. Maybe this is due to the cloudyness that some m505 owners have reported.

Some other people believe that having 16bit color will achieve better pictures. But if you think about it, 256 color does produce color banding, but it is at a much higher resolution (320x320). While m505 has 16bit colors, yet the pixelation of the machine will cause some color banding. In turn, they will both achieve the same colors, but the one with higher resolution will give better details and sharper image.

However m505 is still a great machine given the size of it with a built in expansion slot. If size is what you need, go for a m505, but if you want something new and innovative, with a great screen, get the clie.

Lastly, some has compared the iPaq with the new clie. I say the only comparison that you can really do is the screen itself. I've seen the pictures of the 3 machines and I say Clie has the best of the bunch. and best of all, its PalmOS. Now all i need is a place close to Canada so that I can drive down to get myself a Clie.

RE: 16bit M505 vs 8bit Clie
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 12:13:38 AM

Excellent point. I have a Clie and a Prism, I have to say even my Prism has 16 bit color, the resolution kills it. The Clie's 4 times higher resolution magnifies the visual effect. Now I suspect Palm and Handspring will push similar product given the overhelmingly good reputation of the Clie N-710C. Lets wait and see.


RE: 16bit M505 vs 8bit Clie
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 10:50:52 AM

Don't let the pictures fool you. The color on the Clie was not as intense as expected. Some have said that the colors on the m505 look milky. Having held the Clie in my hand, the colors are also "milky" and washed out. They are sharper though. Sharper is good. Washed out is not.

RE: 16bit M505 vs 8bit Clie
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 11:26:18 AM

Compared with Prism, the color of Clie is washed out, compared with, m505 color is also washed out (and because of the frontlight of m505 is not adjustable and very dim, the color looks more washed out than Clie, however, the m505 has more color but very dull).


Reply to this

VII
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 11:23:52 PM

can someone tell me if i can use AOL instant messenger on a VIIx. thanx


RE: VII
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 12:28:25 AM

i guess


RE: VII
Posted by: bcombee @ 5/28/2001 4:16:13 AM

There is a gateway PQA to send AOL IMs to other users, but you cannot receive instant messages, since the Palm VII/VIIx is not constantly connected -- it only gets data when you explicitly make a request.

RE: VII
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 11:28:21 AM

but couldnt you make a request constantly say like once every 5 seconds

RE: VII
Posted by: bcombee @ 5/29/2001 12:45:56 AM

Turn around time for a single request tends to be five to ten seconds. Having the device continually poll the server would run down the transmitter antenna in a few minutes, and drain the AAA's after an hour or so of usage.

Its just not feasible until a push-capable Palm, like the rumored m700, is available.


Reply to this

"Backlist" Graffiti area?
Posted by: jasonheyd @ 5/28/2001 9:34:42 AM


Anyone know if the Graffiti area of the N710C is backlist, as it is with the m505?


RE: "Backlit" Graffiti area ..
Posted by: jasonheyd @ 5/28/2001 9:36:12 AM


Meant "backLIT" not "list". :)


RE: Backlit
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 10:11:22 AM

No, at least the 700 is not. My guess the 710 is the same way.

RE:
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 10:16:27 AM

nope

RE:
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 11:23:49 AM

The four blocks (HOME, MENU, CALCULATOR, FIND) are backlit, the Graffitti area is not.

RE:
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 12:09:40 PM

>>The four blocks (HOME, MENU, CALCULATOR, FIND) are backlit, the Graffitti area is not.<<

Just as good!!

RE:
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 3:55:10 PM

Actually the graffitti area is lit a little since the front light sits underneath the top of the Graffitti area,
and the light can go to the top of the Graffitti area.

RE: Backlit graffiti area - NO, not on my US model
Posted by: PalmZealot @ 5/30/2001 2:00:37 PM

I just bought a Sony Clié N710C at Fry's last night. I had to charge it first to try it out - not like the HP Jornada 547 I bought last week (the HP 547 came with a Stowaway Keyboard, UBS cradle and 32MBRam for $399 - hand to try it - Ugh - S L O W . . . .).

I tried the Sony Clié N710C in the dark to see if the graffiti area was indeed lit, but is was NOT, and neither were the Home, Menu, Find or Calc areas. I found it impossible to write on the graffiti area in the darkness of the room while the mighty glow of the screen blinded me. Trying to find the "Brightness" button on the graffiti area was impossible too because it wasn't lit either.

While screen is bright, and sharp, but appears muddy and grey because of the bad CONTRAST setting. Too bad its not like the PPC's out on the market - like the HP 547 I bought last week - it of course has both Contrast and Brightness settings - something ANY color device SHOULD have. Your COLOR TV at home has a Contrast and Brightness adjustment, why not on these Palm OS handhelds????

Also point real quick if I may, the Sony Clié N710C is noticibly heavier than the other Palm PDA (minus the Prism of course), and if people are going to compare the m505 and the N710C, they should take into consideration the size of the two devices.

Its stands to reason that if the m505 had AS BIG a battery that the N710C uses, that the m505 would be AS BRIGHT and the battery life would last AS LONG as the Sony Clié N710C. Of course though, that would make the m505 AS BIG as the N710C, so what would be the point of having an m505 THAT BIG???? The m505 would loose its small sleak design. So that's the trade off.

After testing out the Sony Clié N710C, I have decided that I will be returning the Sony Clié N710C (like I did the HP 547). The Sony Clié N710C to me isn't worth the $537 (incld tax) I paid for it.


Reply to this

New Clie
Posted by: Dave @ 5/28/2001 12:37:54 PM

Few comments-
Sceen is pretty bright/colors little murky
Battery life in real testing doesn't last as long as m505
It is a thick machine, doesn't have the same pocketability factor.
To store songs on it, you need memory stick, which are very expensive.
Graffiti area does not glow.
Stick with your m505, it'll treat you right.
RE: New Clie
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 12:42:49 PM

another misinformed commenter


RE: New Clie
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 1:17:42 PM

how come everyone said memory stick is expensive. I found 64Mb for $78, how much is 64Mb of SD card anyway?

RE: New Clie
Posted by: twizza @ 5/28/2001 2:06:34 PM

i have seen the sd cards at expensive stores such as circuit city and best buy go for around $50-$55. the MMC versions go for about $15 less that that.

as for the price that u quoted. where was that. i have not see a 64mb mem stick for less that $80-$85.

RE: New Clie
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 2:31:50 PM

$50 for a 64Mb SD card? i don't think so. you said Circuit city, best buy... so there are no proves because but here is my prove of price for memory card, $78 for 64Mb
http://www.moreaudiovideo.com/Shopping/ItemList.cfm?ItemID=238

and $78.99 for 64Mb at
http://www.etronics.com/product.asp?stk_code=sonmsa64a&svbname=31

and $82 for 64Mb at ecost.com

please show me some place where they sell 64Mb of SD card for $50, please get real, don't post any message if you have nothing to back you up with

RE: New Clie
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 8:40:49 PM

Holly Cow!
Thats pretty cheap! $78.00 for a 64MB Mem stick.

I done know why i've been trying so hard to get one off Ebay !

New Clie will be the m505 killer!!!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 2:30:31 AM

OK, so the clie is only slighly bigger than the m505, and that the Clie uses only 8-bit color, and that the Clie uses memory sticks. So what?!?!

I don't understand why people are so fixated on these minor details.

Let's talk about the major details:
1. increase resolution 320x320
2. no grid-lines
3. built-in multi-media/MP3 support
4. jog-dail for easy navigation with a back button
5. adjustable screen contrast/brightness
6. better smoother text
7. brighter, whiter screen
8. longer battery life
9. 8 MB internal RAM, 4MB flash ROM, and 8MB memory stick included
10. travel charger included

The Clie has ALL the above while the m505 lacks them, and in my opinion, the features listed above most than justify fewer colors and a 0.16" thickness.

By the way, the color depth in the m505 is useless because of the dim screen.

New Clie will be the m505 killer!!!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 2:30:31 AM

OK, so the clie is only slighly bigger than the m505, and that the Clie uses only 8-bit color, and that the Clie uses memory sticks. So what?!?!

I don't understand why people are so fixated on these minor details.

Let's talk about the major details:
1. increase resolution 320x320
2. no grid-lines
3. built-in multi-media/MP3 support
4. jog-dail for easy navigation with a back button
5. adjustable screen contrast/brightness
6. better smoother text
7. brighter, whiter screen
8. longer battery life
9. 8 MB internal RAM, 4MB flash ROM, and 8MB memory stick included
10. travel charger included

The Clie has ALL the above while the m505 lacks them, and in my opinion, the features listed above most than justify fewer colors and a 0.16" thickness.

By the way, the color depth in the m505 is useless because of the dim screen.


Reply to this

Sony doesn't expect it to sell
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 1:16:53 PM

Look at the advertising. They spent millions to advertise the playstation 2 (before it came out), advertise their wega tv's, and their Vaio laptops. They haven't spent a dime advertising it. If the parent company doesn't care enough, why should we? Even if the Clie is the greatest handheld ever, if the parent company doesn't care the general public shouldn't either.


They are starting to advertise
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 4:07:57 PM

Actually I just saw the first ad on Friday.

It’s on the back cover of the June 1, 2001 Entertainment Weekly – not exactly a geek magazine.

They say it’s business tool because it runs the Palm OS. And it has entertainment features-it plays MP3’s and video clips.

I’m looking forward to getting my hands on one. –Just like a lot of other people.

I also hope that Sony can bring some add-on accessories to market soon too: wireless modem, folding keyboard, memory sticks with applications, etc.


RE: Sony doesn't expect it to sell
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 12:48:01 AM

My there are a lot of irrational people posting here with "Sony Envy".... The CLIE has sold out on the west coast in one weekend... hey Sony haters, my Mem Stick is bigger than your SD card!!

*arrogant chuckles*

RE: Sony doesn't expect it to sell
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 1:09:25 AM

You're an idiot!!

Did Palm advertise the m505 or m500 much?

Did Handspring advertise their products much?

I don't understand people like you, you post these ridiculous comments trying to trash a very good handheld. What's the matter? Did the Sony make your m505 look like crap? Are you afraid that Palm is going to get their butt kicked by SONY, HandEra, and Handspring?

RE: Sony doesn't expect it to sell
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 9:42:00 PM

Ummmm,
perhaps its not advertized because there are NONE TO BUY!!!!!
Cali is SOLD OUT.
REST of the country has yet to get it.

Lets advertize so frustated masses can go to their local retailer just to be disapointed!!!!

What an idiot.

RE: Sony doesn't expect it to sell
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 12:26:48 PM

Hey Sony/M505 fighters, my CF card has more memory than your memory sticks and SD cards combined.....

(not withstandng the fact that i can still use an SD card on top of that)...

ah, expandability....gotto love it

Handera330 user


Reply to this

Why is that?
Posted by: David Ross @ 5/28/2001 2:04:10 PM

Why is everyone fighting for their handheld? Just use the one you like and leave us alone!
RE: Why is that?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 4:27:54 PM

Because M505 owners are having a hard time right now. They have to keep justifying their M505 purchase to themselves. I think the more choices we have the better. But some M505 owners keep trolling any Clie' article with disparaging remarks about a PDA that most have never seen in real life.

Nobody wins with less choices, we all lose.

RE: Why is that?
Posted by: Gepeto @ 5/28/2001 5:32:33 PM

(David Ross = my Real name when I post from my Palm)
Exactly, but only to some extent. As long as most applications stay compatible with every device, I think the more choice the better. If people start to do Hi-res only applications, that's something else. And I think M505 may be right about the small size of it, but the CLIÉ is NOT a monster, it might be a bit bigger but some people like me don't care, we just want a bright screen with lots of pixels :)

David Ross
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 8:20:32 PM

David Ross? Are you David Ross from MacAddict?

RE: David Ross
Posted by: Gepeto @ 5/28/2001 9:17:25 PM

In fact I'm a student near Montreal. I'd love to have a brand new mac though :P


Reply to this

Clie low color count
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 5:09:11 PM

Somebody posted that the m505 has more possible colors that maximum pixels. I don't think he realizes that most people want this. The Clie with it's 256 color display, has only one different color for every 400 pixels if you fill up the screen evenly with all the colors. Do the math:
320x320=102400 pixels
/256 colors
400 pixels per color.
Now, that's not a very attractive number, is it?


RE: Clie low color count
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 5:29:35 PM

just look at the screen when you can get a hand on one, trust me the screen is much better than the m505, no question about it. No need for all these calculations. Just wait


RE: Clie low color count
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 11:01:37 PM

m505 has 16 bit color, but it looks like there are many layers of screen protector on the screen to dull the color.

RE: Clie low color count
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 2:19:51 AM

Why in the world would we want so much colours? It's a PDA after all, not some video player or photo album. These are just some extra sweet features, and ultimately, I think the higher resolution is more important in the long run.

RE: Clie low color count
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 4:04:12 AM

Here's some more math for you.

A 160x160, 16-bit color device has 25600 pixels and a range of 65536 colors. What do you need all those colors for?

An 8-bit color image, IF DITHERED WELL, can come very close to the quality of a 16-bit image in most cases.

Also, it was not too long ago that we were all playing 320x240 (or 320x200) DOS games in 8-bit VGA. (Kind of puts things in perspective, hm?) I never had any complaints about using a 256 color palette!


Reply to this

SIZE and the STICK
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 6:50:20 PM

It is nice too see that finally a bunch of us geeks finally realize that SIZE DOES MATTER !!

BTW - gotta stay away from memory stick - don't need a box of those to go with my beta machine. Long live CF - usable by more than Sony.

RE: SIZE and the STICK
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 7:24:54 PM

Sony and who else?

Could it be?!

Motorola for those following recent news.

RE: SIZE and the STICK
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 11:11:30 PM

Yeah good call... If Motorola makes the next Dragonball with memory stick support, I see a new standard for the PalmOS. And the next Clie will be sweet too!


Reply to this

RE: battery life
Posted by: Altema @ 5/28/2001 9:09:11 PM

Actually, the advertised battery life for the Sony is is 7.5 hours, The advertised battery life for the Palm M505 is 10.25 hours with mixed sidelight usage. With the sidelight on constantly, the time appears to be between 7 and 9 hours, so you can probably expect about 12 hours if you avoid the using the light at all, which is a flourescent display and should never burn out. Although neither one compares favorably with the III series (the IIIc will do up to 16 hours, IIIxe up to 30 hours), you have to consider the form factor of the M505 (smallest color device in the world), and the extra drain of the audio output on the Sony. What concerns me though, is that Palm OS users are beginning to bash Palm OS users. What gives? Both devices have their strong points and unique features. That's a good thing: we can pick our preferences and be a happy camper, and that does not mean we have to put down everyone else who may have different needs. The Pocket PC cannot gain the ground they want on Palm OS devices, even by giving away Desktop software, giving bribes to Palm supporters, and putting out full page cheap shots. However, Microsoft would love for this infighting to blow up, just so they can something more than their toenail in the PDA market. Open discussion on Palm OS device preferences is great, and the diversity will only make the Palm OS world stronger, but let's keep it civil.
RE: RE: battery life
Posted by: twizza @ 5/29/2001 12:08:03 AM

nicely said.


RE: RE: battery life
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 1:22:30 AM

Yes, I agree with you. I'm just irritated at all the people who are just posting wrong information about the Clie. I really wish people would stop, it's childish and unproductive.

But civility is no fun!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 8:24:36 AM

nt

RE: RE: battery life
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 10:16:43 AM

Debating the relative merits is useful. Ego-driven name calling is a waste of time. I'm pleased with my M505, but I'm glad there's another choice for those with different priorities.

RE: RE: battery life
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 11:10:32 AM

7 ~ 9 hours with sidelight on for M505?
I did a test as soon as I got my 505.
I use AOCtrlDA to keep my 505 on, with the sidelight on, it can only last for 5:49 (just idle, no any program running). If I kept the sidelight off, the battery life was 13:24. Both of them were measured by Runtime.

Is it normal? Can anybody tell me your battery life?

RE: RE: battery life
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 9:49:59 PM

Yeah why are we Palm OS people fighting?

Theres an Ipaq neard over there in the corner. Hes mumbling some Ram/Rom/bits sampling/ geekspeak.

Lets all go after HIM. :)


Reply to this

[ No Subject ]
Posted by: anonymous @ 5/29/2001 6:33:51 AM

Can the 710 actually play movies fluently? Or is this nothing more than an interesting demo of a still unrefined idea? It sounds too cool to be true!
RE: [ No Subject ]
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 4:24:59 PM

Unfortunatly no (but the audio is good). I am not if it is the software problem though!



Reply to this

RE: battery life
Posted by: Altema @ 5/29/2001 9:41:21 AM

Boris, you are right that these are not real world tests, they are indeed constant drain tests. Nobody uses their Palm that way. The only real-world numbers were for the III series of which I've had five. I have seen battery life testing manipulated in pretty extreme ways. One non-Palm organizer claimed to have a battery life of 180 hours continous! Reading the fine print, it turns out that the device was tested in a mode where there the screen was on, with no back light and no processing. Perhaps we could take a moment and standardize the tests. 30 minutes a day in a game demo mode, or something with the processor actually doing something?

Paul Campbell,
Telecommunications Network Engineer

RE: RE: battery life
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 1:00:51 PM

No bad idea at all.

But real life is even different from that.

We should consider once a day to:

Look up 20 addresses
Synchronise wireless to avantgo a given channel amount
Read email 15 minutes
Writing text for 20 minutes

Looks good in theory - but who has the time to do this for a prolonged time?

I would say - lets get on with life and accept the fact that the Palm 50x is a pretty good machine with a acceptable screen and enough battery life to make you comfortable in normal conditions - and let the fine details to the non-power user who crawl even in the last bit.

(Thought for expeditions which are away a prolonged period from their homebase like the one on:
www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=1923
We propose always battery driven Palms / Symbols / HandEra or battery emergency loader)

A power user is the one making the most of his machine by working with it every day and gaining benefit in being more productive or / and have simple good fun

- and not the one disassembling his Ferrari by the day (as only a freak does)
- changing oil and measuring the gas with a stick to calculate the consume

These chaps are avoiding driving around as the tires could get wet.

If the majority of users would more focus on real life problems (the proper software / solutions)and not trying to measure what’s not worth to measure as long at is basically ok- we would have a lot less useless flames and stress.

That’s the way I see it

Boris
www.palmtop-pro.com
--


Another theme: The chaps biting the nickel on this forum (on unimportant theoretical academic arguments) overlook that the product itself is not the mayor cost involved – if you choose the wrong tool (and thats the software) for your work means that you have to spend incredible time and effort later on.


Reply to this

This is REALLY sad
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 9:56:55 AM

I'm reading these post because I need a Palm and NONE of them are the perfect PDA for me. EVERY Palm I've looked at from EVERY manufacturer has some flaw. Handsprings are too big (the Edge is too expensive for being b/w). The Palm m505 screen isn't worth the $. The Clie has no wireless capability, and none planned for the immediate future. It's also NOT Mac compatible even though its USB. The Handera is cool, but again b/w screen and no wireless capability. The Kyocera is nice, but no Mac compatibility, and with the Samsung i300 months away, $500 is alot for a b/w screen. Even with all these visible flaws (give the high price of the "high end" models there is NO reason any of you should be quibbling that one model is better than another. Each has a stong point AND a weak point. In reality, there is very little that a m500 or a Clie can do that an M100 can't do. If you want to watch a movie on your PDA, go ahead. I need to get real productivity and performance for the $ out of whatever PDA I get. If I want to watch a movie I've got a DVD player in my laptop.


Get the m100 if you are cheap, get the m505 if you are not.
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 11:17:28 AM

This isn't rocket science.


RE: This is REALLY sad
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 12:08:41 PM

The Clie is compatible with a USB Macintosh if you get the Markspace (www.markspace.com) Clie Macpak. I use this on my Clie 300 and my brother uses it on his 710 he picked up Saturday at Frys San Diego. Cost is around $30.00.

PS-Sony actually will tell you to buy the Markspace software if you want to use a Clie on a MAC.

It's NOT about being cheap!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 2:08:24 PM

The point is everyone here is bickering over which PDA is the balls out best when NONE of the them are. They ALL have there weak points. I'm not buying ANY Palm now. I'm not alone here. Palm is on hard times because ONLY ubergeeks will tolerate their unimpressive line of PDAs. Give me a M505 with a hi-rez bright color screen, wireless capability to get MY email (not just palm.net), out of the box compatibility with Windows and Mac, add in a few whiz bang features like MP3 and then you might have a PDA worth of $450. Until then its all junk.

You are asking for features that you really don't need.
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 3:35:28 PM

nt

RE: This is REALLY sad
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 10:00:03 PM

Yeah why are we Palm OS people fighting?

Theres an Ipaq neard over there in the corner. He's mumbling some Ram/Rom/bits sampling/ geekspeak.

Lets all go after HIM. :)


RE: This is REALLY sad
Posted by: Chromosome @ 5/30/2001 1:24:11 PM

I love my m505--it's a better fit for my needs than the Sony. I also give a nod to Sony for developing the memory stick (SD/MMC) technology that Palm incorperated into the m50x. Most importantly, thanks to the Clie enthusiasts who developed the software (MSMount, McFile, and PowerRun) that really made the MMC work. It was even a Clie enthusiast who wrote a thread to walk us all through using these progerams last month! For those Clie lovers-enjoy your powerful new device! Functionally superior to my m505 but a little bigger. I respect you and appreciate you. Remember the words of Rodney King.. ;)

Chromosome

RE: This is REALLY sad
Posted by: CarlJ @ 5/30/2001 2:09:41 PM

I agree -- I love my new Clie; it's a better fit for my needs than the m505. I really like the m505 as well, but I am among those disappointed by the screen brightness. If the m505 screen works well for others (or perhaps you received units better/brighter than the demo models I saw), well, hey, that's cool, too.

As far as size goes, from my perspective it was, "hey, cool, the Clie is smaller than my IIIx", rather than, "gack, the Clie is bigger than a Vx". Sure, I'd love to have a Clie screen/backlight in an m505 body, but then I also want a 400mhz StrongARM, 32mb memory, flat-rate wireless Internet connectivity, and OS5... don't we all? :-)

It seems everyone is also arguing the relative merits of MemStick vs. SD/MMC vs. CF... (okay, well, granted, CF wins hands down on IO device support at this point, but you just can't build a CF-sized slot into a m505-sized handheld right now). But I see this as mostly a non-issue at this point, if you use the slot for external memory, and aren't buying / dragging around handfuls of the cards... I'm delighted by how transparently software that uses Palm's VFS API works between the two -- all the Clie MSMount-style software works on the m50x, and things advertised as supporting SD/MMC, like Palm's PalmReader (née PeanutReader), work just fine on my Clie/MemStick.

I'm looking forward to more programs supporting VFS, so you can, for example, keep a 100k dictionary app in main memory that reads from a 10mb database on a MS/SD/MMC/CF card. I'd love to see more document readers be able to directly read documents off the card (like PalmReader), without the use of MSMount or tricks to temporarily copy databases to RAM.


Reply to this

Call/Email Sonystyle and ask why pre-orders weren't shipped!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 2:52:36 PM

orderhelp@sonystyle.com

888-900-9872

Let them know they shouldn't treat their customers
this way. Ask why retails stores are selling them
when their pre-orders (with an announced ship date
of the 28th!!!) are still not shipping!


RE: Call/Email Sonystyle and ask why pre-orders weren't shipped!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 4:27:20 PM

If I recall correctly, Palm did the same thing for m505 (correct me if I am wrong).


RE: Call/Email Sonystyle and ask why pre-orders weren't shipped!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 5:59:36 PM

Does anyone know when will they start shipping the pre-orders?

RE: Call/Email Sonystyle and ask why pre-orders weren't shipped!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 9:37:11 PM

yeah - after everyone else gets theirs at retail.

Call them / Email them - let them know they shouldn't
treat their customers this way.

RE: Call/Email Sonystyle and ask why pre-orders weren't shipped!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 1:00:35 PM

Did you call Palm telling them that they shouldn't do that either?

RE: Call/Email Sonystyle and ask why pre-orders weren't shipped!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 4:42:27 PM

yes.

a pox on both their houses!
and on Staples too, for a $20 pre-order fee
that got you nothing.


Reply to this

Choices
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 4:35:26 AM

I am new to the world of PDA's following a IIIXE for Xmas last year. Like many of the commentators here, I quickly became an avid fan and tossed my self-printed paper planner. I am now trying to figure out which PDA to upgrade to. I need "power organizing" but I also appreciate "quality distractions" to fill the space between connecting flights. I do not however need to watch DVD's or view professional photographs on my PDA. Despite the critcism regarding the backlight, I was leaning towards the m505. I am happy for any pointers available for this newcomer and would like to know what other kinds of "plug-ins" are likely to be made available for the m505? Is it possible that a mp3 plug-in could produced in the same manner as PDA cameras? Is there a good site that has an easily digestible "head-to-head" comparison? These may be silly questions but greatful for any info.

Get a USA-Made m505. Use EasyView from PalmGear.com
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 9:04:17 AM

You will love it. Great upgrade from your III.



Reply to this

A wireless modem?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 2:13:52 PM

And when is the Sony Clié going to get a wireless modem? I got the Palm m505 because of Minstrel's support of the Palm platform. They've announced a wireless modem for the Palm m505, what good will the extra resolution be if you can't surf the web with the Clié? No thanks, but I'll take a Palm m505 with a Mistrel m500 and Blazer to surf the web wireless. The Sony Clié is just too limitied for me.


RE: A wireless modem?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 2:49:16 PM

I already have a wireless modem that works great with my Clie' ( as well as all of my Visors, Palms and PPCs). It is called a Nokia 8290 GSM phone. It works with any of my organizers via IR. It works with Palm's Mobile Internet Kit.

I was one of the original beta testers for OmniSky and used them until about three months ago. Bad software, bulky device and sporadic connections finally made me come to my senses. The phone makes a much better wireless modem.

Yeh! Who needs a Wireless modem, NOT ME!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 3:51:52 AM

Exactly what I was thinking,
I have a GSM cell phone with IR, which cost me nothing more than my phone contract, and it doubles as a modem for my PALMs.

RE: A wireless modem?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 10:24:45 AM

To the Wireless GSM phone users... What wireless service can you use the phones with in the U.S.? Sprint, Verizon, Voicestream, or others?
Thanks...
(Have a Palm V now, Still trying to decide between Clie N710C, Palm 505, or maybe, yes, even the iPaq)

RE: A wireless modem?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 11:05:53 AM

I am in San Jose, CA and use Cingular (formerly Pacific Bell).

Sprint Solution
Posted by: dstrauss @ 5/31/2001 2:02:30 PM

I just bought an all-in-one cable from www.thesupplynet.com which connects my Palm Vx to my Samsung 8500 cell phone. I enabled Wireless Web ($10 per month plus using cell minutes vs. $.39 per minute plus using minutes) and it works great for reaching email, but very slow for web surfing (19.2 +/-). You don't even need a dialup internet account, as you can quick connect to the Sprint net. For example, three short (one paragraph) email downloads and a single upload took 52 seconds (under the magic 1 minute useage). Not as seemless as an all-in-one phone, but for $50 for a cable, a lot cheaper.

RE: A wireless modem?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 3:48:53 PM

I don't consider a GSM phone a very simple or efficient solution for wireless access. The Minstrel m500 modem clips right onto the Palm and doesn't use any power from the Palm itself. IR communication for a sustained period will probably drain the battery a little faster. If there were a data cable solution it might be better, but you still have to fumble with two devices and a cable. The Mistrel adds only ounces to the back of the Palm and they clip together. Adding more weight to the Sony Clié would make it the heaviest PDA out there short of a PocketPC or laptop. We need some SIMPLE solutions for wireless access!

RE: A wireless modem?
Posted by: fleegle @ 5/31/2001 11:34:18 PM

"I am in San Jose, CA and use Cingular (formerly Pacific Bell)."

Which plan are you using? Does it use your voice minutes?

RE: A wireless modem?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 6/1/2001 2:03:39 AM

The way that Cingular works in CA is to add on a service called "PCS Data Connect". This is a second number that uses the data line for the phone. This means that it can also receive incoming data calls and faxes. On my phone it just pipes them out over IR if I accept the call.

The plan costs 4.99 per maonth and $.15 per minute of connect time. For me based on the 5 minutes or less per day that I averaged on the OmniSky, I am saving a huge amount of money. In the last four months, it has already paid for the phone. Connection strength is also much stronger than I ever got off of the OmniSky.


Reply to this

N710C at Best Buy!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 3:20:39 PM

For those of us east of Arizona with Fry's envy, I just wanted to let you know that I picked up my N710C at Best Buy this afternoon (5/30), so I would guess they should be all around the US by the end of the week.


RE: N710C at Best Buy!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 4:11:29 PM

Which Best Buy?


RE: N710C at Best Buy!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 5:02:45 PM

In a suburb of Chicago. Sorry for not mentioning the location.

RE: N710C at Best Buy!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 7:00:07 PM

Also in Mich, at the Dearborn Best Buy!

RE: N710C at Best Buy!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 10:36:09 AM

What is Best Buys return policy? I have an m505 that I got from OD and their return was 14 days

RE: N710C at Best Buy!
Posted by: LeshMan @ 5/31/2001 8:27:52 PM

I just went to the Best Buy on North May in Oklahoma City and they got two N710c's: one for demo purposes, and I bought the other one. They also let me trade in my old Palm Vx and get $280 towards the Clie!!!

RE: N710C at Best Buy!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 8:43:20 PM

North Olmsted, Ohio (suburb of Cleveland) has a few too. They just got it this afternoon. However their demo still isn't charged up.

RE: N710C at Best Buy!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 6/1/2001 10:43:04 PM

Thanks for the tip in North Olmsted. I traveled there tonight to see it in person from Medina, Oh. Unfortunately, the unit was not charged and I was not able to view the screen. Ugghhh!!! The salesperson suggested that I stop by tomorrow and he would try to remember to charge it overnight. I own a M505 and was very curious to see the screen and compare it to my unit. Personally, I'm very happy w/ my m505 and plan to keep it but just curious on what the Clie has to offer.


Reply to this

Best Buy in stock date
Posted by: Rob Zimmerman @ 5/31/2001 3:59:00 PM

The new Clie is now in stock in a few Best Buy stores. I work at Best Buy and my store has it..YES!!! I am buying it now it rules. By sunday it should be in all stores.
Reply to this

CASE
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 6:09:15 PM

What does the case with the clie look like? is it one of those slip on things or does it attach to the unit like the palms so you dont have to take the thing in and out?

Anyone have a picture?

Thanks

go the the web site you lazy F
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 6/1/2001 10:23:54 AM

nt



Reply to this

THE TOP INSTUMENT
Posted by: NARONGSAK @ 6/1/2001 9:53:19 AM

should have data of sony cin7
RE: THE TOP INSTUMENT
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 6/1/2001 10:57:47 AM

uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


WHAT ?

You speaka english ?


Reply to this


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can we guess the FINAL low price for Vx?

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 2:34:44 PM #
Palm Vx is down to 279 at best buy. Palm m500 is down to 329 at best buy. In my opinion, that's not enough of a spread based on Palm's idea that the m500 is the superior device (i.e. the m500 should cost at least $75 more so that potential buyers will believe that they're getting more when they pay more). So...I think the Vx price has to drop further. Anyone care to hazard a guess as to how low it will go?


RE: can we guess the FINAL low price for Vx?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 3:08:10 PM #
Yes, developers can get the Vx right now for $179. Speculation is that after this special is over for the developers it'll be offered to the general public. I think it'll happen sooner then that...

RE: can we guess the FINAL low price for Vx?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/2/2001 1:43:55 AM #
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 4:13:41 PM

I saw it here first, it seems to be a new bulletin board.

http://www.infosync.no/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi

RE: battery life
Posted by: Cheetah @ 5/28/2001 1:40:04 AM

interesting charts. Shows 505 with and without backlight on vs. PPC in a battery test.

505 with backlight on has similiar battery life then the other PPC. But without backlight, the 505 has over TWICE the battery life.

This is exactly the point! 505 does not need backlight on all the time (not in direct sunlight and in good indoor light) therefore the battery life is much better then PPC in the practical world.

I love my 505 and only use backlight when in poor lighting. In the office the screen is fine without the backlight.

I would also say that the 505 with the backlight on in a dark room (e.g. movie theater) is 1000% better then the reverse backlight of the Palm Vx.


Reply to this

Clie N710C availability
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 5:11:04 PM

As of 05/26 1:10 PM

Sunnyvale -- Out (confirmed by sale person)
Palo Alto -- Out (confirmed by sale person)
San Jose -- around 6 in the shelf (they have 12 in stock originally)

RE: Clie N710C availability
Posted by: CarlJ @ 5/26/2001 9:52:09 PM

As of 05/26 around noon, San Diego Frys:

I believe there were four in stock when I first walked past the shelf to go look at the demo model; when I came back to pick up a box there were three left (including the one I took), then when I walked past 30 minutes later before getting in the checkout line, the shelf was bare :-)

RE: Clie N710C availability
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 5:42:53 AM

The Fremont Fry's is also carrying them, however when you call them and ask to see if they are in stock they won't know what you are talking about. Try giving them the item number: 3011669 they can look it up in their computers that way.

They do have it on display for those who want to compare the m505 screen and the Clie screen. I must admit, I've been playing with mine for several hours and it rocks. :)


Reply to this

Great Photos
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 7:27:01 PM

Check these out!!

These are comparing the IPAQ, CLIE, and Palm m505

http://briefcase.yahoo.com/dreamwave6


Clie is 2x thickness of m505.
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 8:23:27 PM

http://y42.briefcase.yahoo.com/dreamwave6


RE: Great Photos
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 11:08:56 AM

The Clie is twice as thick as the m505, but it's not as wide. It actually fits in the typical jeans pocket BETTER.

RE: Great Photos
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 12:44:57 PM

Its thinker, yes, but not TWICE as think! The clie is thinner then two m505 stacked on each other.
m505 .5" Clie .66" [505 x 2 = 1 INCH]

RE: Clie is 2x thickness of m505.
Posted by: CarlJ @ 5/29/2001 6:54:04 PM

The Clie is 5/8 inch thick, the m505 is 1/2 inch. That's a difference of 1/8 inch, or 25 PERCENT, not "twice as thick". The m505 is also about 1/8 inch shorter, and 3/8 inch WIDER than the Clie.

I pre-ordered the m505 (the night before they were announced); I cancelled when they started showing up in the stores and I saw first-hand how dim the screen was. I went to see the new Clie on Saturday, not intending to buy it, just to look... and ended up plunking down my money and taking one home (this, after comparing the "floor model" extensively against the m505 sitting next to it; I had a friend with me, she wanted to know where the brightness control was on the m505).

The Clie is smaller than my old Palm IIIx (a teensy bit shorter, 3/8 inch narrower, the same thickness), and has by far the best screen ever seen on a PalmOS handheld. I'm running with the backlight at about 25 percent -- at 100 percent, you could use it as a flashlight. At 320x320, the screen is simply breathtaking, and at 160x160, there is _no_ trace of the dreaded "black grid".

If the m505 had the Clie's backlight (I'm not talking about the hi-res screen, mind you, just the bright, adjustable, backlight), I would have gotten the m505 instead (weeks ago) -- I *like* the m505, it's sleek and sexy, and will no doubt be more widely supported. But, to me, the whole point of color is to make the information on the screen easier to read, and I found the m505's dim screen to be an impediment, not a benefit.

Folks, it's time to stop all the bickering; wait until you have a chance to compare the Clie and m505 side-by-side in a store somewhere, and *then* decide which is best for *you*.

RE: Great Photos
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 1:04:56 AM

If we bicker the only one who wins is Bill Gates.


Reply to this

The new Sony
Posted by: Edd @ 5/26/2001 8:05:14 PM

Hi, I just went to Fry's in Manhattan Beach to see the new color Clie and when we were there, we beamed the Photosuite and some pictures from our M505 just so we can compare them side by side. The resolution on the new Sony is awesome, not only the fonts look smoother on the Sony but also the pictures. There are no jagged edges on the fonts (not that I can see). The only thing is Sony can only display 256 colors and the Palm has more (16 bits).

When comparing side by side you can clearly see the Palm has more richer color display (but dimmer). Supposedly, the Japanese version of the Clie has more features than the one imported here. :(

Hey Edd,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 8:54:11 PM

quote from Edd: "Supposedly, the Japanese version of the Clie has more features than the one imported here. :("

What features are you talking about?

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: Edd @ 5/26/2001 9:31:27 PM

According to this Sony website in Japan http://www.sony.co.jp/sd/ProductsPark/Consumer/PEG/PEG-N700C/tv.html You're supposed to be able to download and watch TV on your Clie. I didn't see that mention anywhere on the USA box at Fry's.

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 9:36:29 PM

Go to www.genericmedia.com and download the app that Sony is packaging with it's Japanese CLIE. Get the Palm movie player and their movie maker. If you already have a TV-tuner card and WinVCR or something like that, you should be able to do it. Of course, you could just go buy this VAIO desktop from Sony specifically designed to record television programs instead of using your own TV-tuner card and WinVCR: http://www.sonystyle.com/vaio/digitalstudio/index.html

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 9:41:40 PM

Here ya' go...direct link: http://www.genericmedia.com/news_pr09.html

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: Edd @ 5/26/2001 9:49:40 PM

Thanks. Now let me go return my M505 :) while it still within 14 days return period at Staples.

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 9:59:30 PM

Remember, to have the Japanese have with their CLIE's, you'll have to have a large harddrive to capture a 1-hour long TV show or a really big one to capture a 2-hour long movie, then you'll have to have a much higher capacity Memory Stick than the 8MB one that comes with the CLIE. The 64MB Memory Stick goes for around $100 on eBay and the newer 128MB Memory Sticks go for around $200. These prices will come down eventually but as you can see it is going to be an expensive proposition to make the CLIE a portable movie player, which is EXACTLY what I plan to use mine for :)

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 10:26:24 PM

Try this out !!!

Using a program called HRCapt (DA Program)
located at:
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/fairy/chimer...OthersPalm.html
(it's in japanese),
I made several screen captures of my N710C Clie in various modes and pictures.
THe program captures Hi resolution as well as low, i've posted the pictures at:

http://members.nbci.com/nxt/clie710...0screencap.html

and yes, this IS a REAL screen capture from n710c

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 10:44:38 PM

Can't get your page up

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 10:44:38 PM

Can't get your page up

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 11:10:31 AM

Also, the nipponese clie doesn't play MP3. The American one does.

MP3
Posted by: Edd @ 5/27/2001 11:56:46 AM

Hmm.. I thought it does according to this page:

http://www.sony.co.jp/sd/ProductsPark/Consumer/PEG/PEG-N700C/music.html

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:23:55 PM

I realize the Sony has Mp3, Attrac, etc. play back; however, will these movies be encoded with sound via gMovie Maker and can they be played back with sound on gMovie Player?

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:25:44 PM

One other question, how big would say an hour long show encoded in MPEG-1 wind up. In other words, how much could you fit on a 128 meg memory stick?

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:44:45 PM

I saw the new Sony at a local Fry's and was impressed. The size and weight between the 505 and the N710c were comparable, one's a little wider, the other a little thicker. The screen was obviously sharper on the Sony, but when comparing the color, the Palm was actually richer. I was surprised. The brightness is great on the Clie, but the colors look washed out. Is there any way of increasing the contrast?

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 9:00:01 PM

Nope!

RE: 1-hr mpeg
Posted by: vgz @ 5/28/2001 1:12:37 AM

>>One other question, how big would say an hour long show encoded in MPEG-1 wind up. In other words, how much could you fit on a 128 meg memory stick?

It would depend on the frame rate but I have several mpeg files and a 50minute 17 sec mpeg is 489.6 MB. Good luck getting that on a memorystick.


Matt

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 3:07:02 PM

The Japanese 700 plays ONLY ATRAC3 format on white copy-protection memory sticks.

The American 710 plays ATRAC3 (bleah!) or MP3, and it can store MP3s on the cheaper, non-encrypted blue sticks.

Matt...gMovie Maker converts PC video files to gMovie format
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 7:49:34 PM

with sound. The gMovie Maker reformats the video to 320x320 resolution. A decent quality picture at a decent frame rate will get you about 1 minute of video with sound for every 1MB on the MS. Thus, a 128MB MS will let you watch a 2-hour movie.

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: eipangan @ 5/28/2001 9:27:04 PM

Starting June 18, users of the Japanese model can now download MediaPlayer 2.0, which can play MP3 off the blue stick. The download is priced at 2,000 yen but is on sale for the first few months - 1,500 yen.

Screenshots? Bah!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 6:54:51 PM

Ummm... You could put a bullet through the front of the Clie and the screenshots would look the same. Those do not show what the Clie's display does, it shows us what our computer moniors do.


Reply to this

Clie is big!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 10:48:55 PM

Holy cow! That thing is a monster! I though it would be closer to the palm m505, but it's beast! Be prepared to have a heavy, metal object (basically an iPaq in size) in your pocket if you get one of these. Screen is ok though, but not as vivid as described.


RE: Clie is big!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:42:04 AM

What do you base your comments about screen quality on??


RE: Clie is big!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 11:11:19 AM

Nope. It's nowhere near as big as an iPaq.

It's thicker than an m505, but not as thick as a Visor Prism. And because of the reduced width, it's very pocketable.

RE: Clie is big!
Posted by: TvM @ 5/27/2001 8:06:49 PM

It is plastic

RE: Clie is big!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 11:06:40 PM

It's NOT plastic!! It's metal... at least the front is, not sure about the back. You people should stop makig all these statements if you don't have anything to back it up.

RE: Clie is big!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 2:28:59 AM

Yes, stop those crap comments without proof! I own a Clie N700C, and having it put side by side with the iPaq, the size difference is great! Whoever says that they are the same, basically, you have neither seen both devices, or maybe never even seen them before!

Yes, its thicker than the 505, but its way thinner than Prism. Its in between. With the case on, m505 will be as thick as the Clie (with the flip cover on)

ON the other hand, the Clie is narrower, so it appears smaller, and it is thus very pocketable (in the pants pocket, not the shirt)


Reply to this

reseting
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 11:12:35 PM

how do i do a hard reset on my new clie ?


RE: reseting
Posted by: Shane @ 5/27/2001 6:05:57 AM

Your Clie come with a book called Instructions. If you turn to the first few pages you will find the Contents. If you look for resetting in there and turn to the right page it will explain how to do it.


RE: reseting
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:43:10 AM

LOL!! The questions some people ask! Hmm..2-10 hrs to get a reply to a post, vs 4 mins to look it up in the manual......decisions, decisions....


Reply to this

Here are the Links
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 12:27:29 AM

This is nXt btw, Mike Cane earlier posted some of my websites, unfortunately Geocities killed my account because I had some files!
The new pages are at the following

Mini Review:
http://members.nbci.com/nxt/clie710/710review.html

Screen Captures: <-- Must See
http://members.nbci.com/nxt/clie710/710screencap.html

Digital Camera Pictures:
http://members.nbci.com/nxt/clie710/cliepicture.html

RE: Here are the Links
Posted by: mikecane @ 5/27/2001 1:31:37 PM

Thanks, nXt! I should have read the board completely before I posted the other links above. These new ones seem to work.


RE: Here are the Links
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 10:11:40 PM

Thanks so much nXt for the screen capture pics. I was hoping that somewhere on the net would be some screen captures. Please add more when you have time.

I see you enlarged a 160x160 pic to the size of the 320x320 pic for comparison, but can you do it the other way around please? Reduce the hi res to the same size as low res so they can be compared that way too.

Thanks again! Good work.

RE: Here are the Links
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 3:56:23 AM

When enlarging the 160x160 screenshots in Photoshop, you should use Nearest Neighbor interpolation instead of Bicubic. This will accurately represent pixel-doubling.


Reply to this

Size!
Posted by: Cheetah @ 5/27/2001 6:22:01 AM

Hmmmm...more vibrant screen (although not 16bit), BUT much thicker, longer, and heavier!

That's the point of the 505. It has color yet retains it's small size and good battery life.

I've used my 505 for two weeks now and love it.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 6:50:36 AM

I agree about the size. Much as I tried to like the iPaq, the size issue was a killer for me. I use my m505 alot and just could not see carrying an iPaq like device around all day.

It may be fine for those who carry it from desk to meeting, to desk and home. But as a sales professional who lives with it - no way. People forget that is what Palm had in mind when it balanced the features of the device.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:47:08 AM

It may be thicker, but many new owners have said it fits the hand better than the 505

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 11:12:40 AM

Check it out before you write it off as bulky. The size is actually very good in actual use.

RE: Size!
Posted by: Edd @ 5/27/2001 12:02:06 PM

It fits comfortably in my hand and it slightly narrower than my M505 (so that you can use your thumb to operate the jog dial). Then new jog dial now has the back button (the monochrome one didn't have that) and it comes with PowerJog.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 12:50:20 PM

I have used it, and IT IS BIGGER, period. It is twice and thick, grab a ruler and check, I did. Yes it is slightly less in width, but does not make up for the depth. My PalmV was in a titanium hard case and I had it in my front pocket always, in the hard case it was still thinner than the clie, now I have the m505, and size wise it win hands down. Nothing fits in my pocket better.

Just my opinion. To each his own.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 12:58:42 PM

what is the point of carrying it around and the screen is annoying to look at?

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 1:23:06 PM


Hee hee hee

I love how we always get of the subject ,turn things around and make it us against them .LOL =)This makes me laugh alot.

Very antertaining .

Thanx

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 1:25:01 PM

What is the point of having a beautiful screen to look at if you never carry it around with you because it is too bulky?

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 1:52:29 PM

hahahah, palm company is dying and their customers are trashing each other products, PPC won heheheheeh I like it

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 2:27:24 PM

The CLIE's thickness is .03" thinner than the very portable visor deluxe form factor. The CLIE is not a brick. You people are a bunch of whinning, anorexic wimps!!

Hey, two 3x5 cards would really dissapear in your pants pocket. Just carry a few of those around and quit whining.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 7:39:28 PM

Clie thickness is 1.68 in, width is 7.1 in
M505 thickness is 1.27 in, width is 7.874 in

And when you are holding a PDA, the important parameters are the width and height (where width is more important than height). Simple math for calulcating the length to fit into your palm

width for Clie is 7.1 in
width for M505 is 7.874 in
The difference is 0.774 in (Clie win)

thickness for Clie is 1.68 in
thickness for M505 is 1.27 in
The difference is .41 in (M505 win)

width + 2 * thickness for Clie is 10.46 in
width + 2 * thickness for M505 is 10.414 in

The difference is 0.046 in (M505 win).

If you calculate the perimeter

2*width + 2 * thickness for Clie is 17.56 in
2*width + 2 * thickness for M505 is 18.288 in

The difference is 0.728 in (Clie win).

Of course, volume wise, Clie is still a little larger, but it is not as what some people claimed it to be BULKIER, HEAVIER. Sounds like Clie is way too big but it is not.

Besides the weight difference is only 20 g, if you put an MP3 plyer in M505, see how much that gonna weight?

M505 is definitely a loser compared to Clie (except for the 20g weight differnce and slightly larger form factor), now many people have seen the amaing screen and have learned that the Clie width is actually much narrower than M505, the proud M505 owners are whining about the thickness and weight? And that is the only valuable thing left for M505?

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:31:42 PM

Oops, the important parameters should be width and "thickness", not height.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:33:03 PM

I think the biggest loser of all is the person who computed all that. Do you plan to keep your Clie in your pocket protector?

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:50:04 PM

I have Clie N710C here with me, it fits into shirt pocket well. Have you seen the Clie with your own eyes and hold it with your own palm actually?

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 10:02:11 PM

I would love to see someone put a couple of 3 by 5 index cards in their shirt pocket, I can barely understand putting a m505 in, even if it does fit. Putting a Clie in your shirt pocket (as I have seen the size at a OD with a demo unit) would be the epitome of dorkiness.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 11:47:14 PM

>I think the biggest loser of all is the person who computed all that. Do you plan to keep your Clie in your pocket protector?<

He was just giving facts to support his claims of the CLie's size not speculations like everyone else

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 10:15:08 AM

Who ever calculated that is WRONG "thickness for Clie is 1.68 in thickness for M505 is 1.27 in" My m505 is only .5 IN thick!!! the m505 is not over 1 and a quarter inches!!!

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 12:26:16 PM

That would be 1.27 cm
0.5 inches x 2.54 cm/inch = 1.27 inches


RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 12:27:55 PM

Now I've done it:
0.5 inches x 2.54 cm/inch = 1.27 cm

Sorry

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 1:19:57 PM

why don't you guys just wait and hold both of them in your palm and then determine instead of doing all these silly calculations.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 3:09:27 PM

Geezus Christmas, children, GET A LIFE.

If you're so insecure that you have to trash other peoples' choices to justify your own, I pity you.

(And as for the "PPC win" comment, under 10% markeshare is winning? Must have made that calculation on an original Pentium. :-)

(Now see, you've lowered me to your level.. :-)

Biggest losers
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 2:06:45 AM

>I think the biggest loser of all is the person who computed all that. Do you plan to keep your Clie in your pocket protector?<

Actually, I believe the biggest losers are all those people that are calling the Clie "too big to carry around", the Clie "is as big as am iPAQ" and "the Clie is twice as thick as the m505". These are obviously not true. I think the motives behind people who post these comments feels so threaten by the Clie because it's better than their m505.

Come-on people, it's a handheld!! I understand if you are posting a legitimate complaint, but purposely making false statements just because there's a better product?!?!? That's the definition of a loser!!

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 10:22:53 AM

Actually, you have it backwards. People did nothing but bash the m505 for its dim screen, and hyped up the Clie to unrealistic expectations.

Now that the Clie is out, and people can compare them, the m505 holds its own against the Clie. Unless you want a brick sized MP3 player included, that is.

It is the Clie owners who now feel they have to justify their purchases, and will lash out against anyone who has something good to say about the m505.

Don't even start with the "its got a 320x320 screen..." arguement. Palm will integrate a high rez scrren into its future offerings when it feels that the processor can handle the higher resolution without slowing the hanheld down to a crawl. Plus they will give us high resolution AND 16 bit color in the future.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 12:27:12 PM

>Don't even start with the "its got a 320x320
>screen..." arguement. Palm will integrate a high rez
>scrren into its future offerings when it feels that
>the processor can handle the higher resolution
>without slowing the hanheld down to a crawl. Plus
>they will give us high resolution AND 16 bit color in
>the future.

Actually, YOU are really searching....

The majority of the feedback from actual Clie N710C owners have been positive as are the reviews from creditable from major tech. news sources. So there's no need to justify the Clie.

There is, however, a need to justify why the hell did someone pay $450 for an m505, while for $50 more they could've gottenso much more.

Oh, by the way...the Clie has a hardware video accelerator that speeds the 320x320 resolution up. From people who have tested the Clie, they obtain a benchmark of 207%!!! That's the speed of a visor platinum. The benchmark of the m505 was benchmarked at around 150%. So not only does the Clie have 320x320 resolution, it's actually faster than the m505.

And...speaking of the new processor...did you read that the new ARM processor will have built-in memory stick compatibilty?

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 3:26:05 PM

It is definitely not a legitimate comparison to benchmark 2 PDA's running different versions of the same OS. Clie=3.52 m505=4.0. Visor-3.5+

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 4:09:35 PM


So you mean 4.0 is slower than 3.5?

Correction: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 4:16:37 PM

Oops, that should be 1.27 cm for m505 thickness and 1.68 cm for Clie thickness. Sorry about the mistake!!

A benchmark is a benchmark
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 1:01:15 PM

>It is definitely not a legitimate comparison to >benchmark 2 PDA's running different versions of the >same OS. Clie=3.52 m505=4.0. Visor-3.5+

What difference does that make? Since it is the same OS but different versions, the benchmark 2.0 is compatible, that's all that matters. If look at the relative speed data on the benchmark, it listed both machines running Palm OS 3.2 and 3.5, aren't those different version of the same OS?


Reply to this

Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 12:36:06 PM

I’ve looked at all these pics of the Ipaq, Clie and M505 screen quality. I like all three machines if you could believe that but, I was willing to sacrifice some features for the reason that I value size the most…Said that, I need help to understand Why isn’t possible to have a contrast setting on the m505? Since it seams that the Ipaq and the Clie have similar types of screens???(Lit the same way so, it seams to me)

Can some one help me to have a better understanding how the clie or I paq were able to accomplish this and not palm…?

Thank you
730…=O)~


RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 1:16:59 PM

Great Question:
I too would like to know the answer Ed can you help with this one?Thanx


RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 2:41:53 PM

This was done on purpose in order to optimize battery life and the color screen.

If users were able to adjust the brightness, then the battery life would suffer and folks would be unhappy with the results.

RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:40:16 PM

Do you actually believe what you are talking about yourself? "If there is a button for brightness, then the battery life will be shorter", you think people are idiot, they don't know how to turn the brightness down when there are enough lights? This is ridiculous!!

RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:57:48 PM

I would have to agree!
That was a pretty dumb statement.
That the consumers meaning us would not be smart enough to know when to turn off the contrast button which would shorten battery life and palm based there decision on that.
Good one lets hear another.
I need a laugh.


RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 10:02:58 AM

To answer your question, yes I believe in what I am talking about.

Let me answer your question with a question. Why do you think there is no contrast option? Do you think it was an oversight on Palm's part? Do you really think Palm "forgot" to put in an option which has been in all the other palms before this one? I don't think so.
So if they didn't forget, and they didn't include it, the answer that best fits the situation is they set it for the optimal combination of battery life and screen brightness.

If you disagree with me, why not ask Palm? I'm sure by now they have received calls from folks asking how to adjust the contrast.

RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 11:31:14 AM

Let me use a question to answer your question too. What will you explain if Palm put a brightness control in the next verson of m505? "Oh!!! Palm listens to the customer?"

I have dropped by Frys many times to look at different PDAs, everytime when people looked at m505, most of them tried to find the brightness control to see if they could make it brighter.

If Palm decided not to include the brightness adjustment because of the reason you mentioned, I guess that is a big mistake!!

RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 1:56:17 PM

I will have to agree with the comments above you do have some valid points. Re: reasons that m505 did not come with a contrast button but if some third party app would come out to be able to change the setting of brightness-if this is at all possible he or she would make Bank! I would purchase it! In a heart beat.

RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 2:03:07 PM

"What will you explain if Palm put a brightness control in the next verson of m505? "Oh!!! Palm listens to the customer?""

The next version of the m505 may very well have a contrast control. It may also have a soft graffiti screen, 320x320 resolution and/or a better battery. And yes it would be due to customer demand. These are all hardware changes and some or all will probably be included in upcoming models. I don't think you will be seeing a contrast button in the current OS however.

RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 2:20:21 AM

IF there's a next version of the m505!!! Palm is sinking fast. They are "re-thinking" their strategy. They might pull out of the high-end market and focus on the low-end m100's.

RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 9:51:26 AM

Rather than letting us just speculate about Palm's reasoning, someone from Palm should step forward and explain the choices that they made with the M505. I have seen some very good posts from Handera explaining the design tradeoffs they made on their new model (color vs. black and white, etc.). In the absence of any statement from Palm we can only assume they think we're too dumb to handle a brightness control.

RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 4:04:16 PM

I guess it is due to the energy crisis!! So user can not adjust the brightness to drain power fast!!

Great idea, now the federal government should order all the lamp manufacturer to make a fix lamp so that the energy deficiency can be alleviated!


Reply to this

Size
Posted by: Volcano @ 5/27/2001 1:58:08 PM

I have had my M505 for 3 weeks now and use it for many houre everyday. I am a Operations Mgr. for PepsiCo and have many contacts, direct reporte, to do lists, e-mail, word docs, spreadsheets etc. that I must have at my finger tips instantly. The 505 packs it all. Every time I take it out of my pocket, I am still amazed by the size (absoulutly small). I had heard a lot about the sub-par screen and got caught up in the "hysteria" and actually went back to BEST BUY to trade it cor an IPAQ but the IPAQ was too big, the software too "awkward" and actually the M505 screen was to-me sharper under many more light conditions w/o fumbling w/contrast controls. I kept my 505 and I am still impressed w/it everyday!
RE: Size
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 2:52:23 PM

I totally agree; morningstar1844@hotmail.com
For the size you cannot beat it!


Volcano, Pepsi & Palmtop-pro
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 4:38:30 PM

Hi Volcano!

We are the premium mobile computing hardcopy magazine in Europe and would love to print your impression as manager at pepsico on the m505.

Please contact me directly:
Boris Michael von Luhovoy
publishing editor
Palmtop-pro magazine

bmv.luhovoy@nextra.at

for more information on us please visit:
www.palmtop-pro.com/index1.htm

(sorry folks - german only)

Please see also our story on the polarstern icebreaker & palm on:
www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=1923


RE: Size
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 3:11:42 PM

But why discuss the admittedly cool m505 in a Clie topic?

As for Pepsi, could you PLEASE do something to make Diet Pepsi not taste so crappy? I hate it when restaurants give the "no coke, pepsi" line. :-)

RE: M505
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 4:22:49 PM

Because M505 owners are having a hard time right now. They have to keep justifying their M505 purchase to themselves. I think the more choices we have the better. But some M505 owners keep trolling any Clie' article with disparaging remarks about a PDA that most have never seen in real life.

Nobody wins with less choices, we all lose.


Reply to this

Size
Posted by: seaaa @ 5/27/2001 3:14:11 PM

I agree with you Vol. my M505 is great. When ever I use it at work (constantly) it gets "oos and ahhs", awesome size, incredible expandbility ans color. I take it absoulutly every where, hiking, workouts, shopping and forget it's there. My brother works for Micro soft and they all have IPAQs, I beat him hands down pulling up basic applications faster while his IPAQ gets hung up on programs he accidently hit etc. Also he often does'nt have his IPAQ ("Too big to lug around!").
Reply to this

battery life?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 4:11:38 PM

Who knows the battery life of these three devices: Ipaq, clie710c and 505? Now I am more concerning about this rather than the size and screen quality. Different people have different preferences, for meI prefer a smaller size device, although I envy the screen quality of the clie. Yes I am a proud m505 owner.


RE: battery life?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 4:51:37 PM

Don't envy the screen of the Clie, you can only look at it for about 2-3 hours a charge running applications. It's not worth the bulkiness, the 256-color display, and they low battery life. Go with the m505, it treats you right.


RE: battery life?(Clie N700C and m505)
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 5:11:06 PM

As a author of BatteryBench, I tested both devices
(CLIE is japanese model N700C)

I tested both in normal mode of BatteryBench( it runs 1 second
and only display for 9 seconds)

N700C
backlight off : 16 hours
backlight minimum: 10 hours
backlight maximum: 6 hours

m505
backlight off : 15 hours
backlight on : 6.5 hours

FYI
m100: 40 hours
HandEra 330: 36 hours


YAMADA Tatsushi
Hacker dude-san
http://simple-palm.com


RE: battery life?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:46:14 PM

"It can only last 2-3 hours",

that is with playing mp3 and front light on. without front light, it last 11 hours for playing MP3. I think for normal usage, it should be even longer.

RE: battery life?
Posted by: JET8810 @ 5/27/2001 9:31:25 PM

wow...the handera gets 36 hours of battery life?!?!?! Is that just looking up adresses or games...also, using a cf modem and keyboard would drain the battery much.,..quicker...right?

RE: battery life?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 10:47:29 PM

> HE330, 36 hours with CF modem?

No, but you can plug the 330 into the wall and run it for as long as you like.

Bob


RE: battery life?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 2:43:30 AM

Clie lasts only 2 - 3 hours?
Another misinformed idiot making unfounded comments.
The clie can last as long as the m505, my dear friends.
I have used both, tried both.
Unless you play MP3 with the screen on, it will drain in 3 hours, else typical usage will last you at least one week. (1 hour a day on average)

RE: battery life?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 2:10:48 AM

Obviously you are another idiot who doesn't read people's comments in full. Why not scroll up and read again what he wrote?

RE: battery life!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 3:52:57 AM

After conducting real world tests we found that the battery life of a Palm is much longer as in any statistic.

The test results shown above are most probably conducted in a continuous mode e.g. running a program and measuring continuos until the battery is exhausted.
This puts on a battery an artificial (not a real world) drain. Thought there is no other standard to measure it has to be seen what ist is: As very rough comparing tool somehow probably ok or not (depends how you look at the data), it shows something but holds no water in real use as it reflects not the day to day PDA life.

Anyhow – the test as conducted here has probably some meaning, as there is no other known proper way to measure – even thought this does not reflect the real world performance.

In real world you flip the Palm open, look up your data and close down. This gives the battery the ability to recreate and gain when in off mode.

Our (out of the stomach and not 100% replicable) tests have shown, that the M500 runs up to about 21 hours in real world with light of – But that’s something widely depending on the individual users individual behaviour. So it is safe to say that the Palm has not only a very good real world performance but a superior one.

Like a RollsRoyce vendor answers a question to the horsepower of a Silvercloud with a disgusted but conclusive:

Enough power in any situation ... Sir'

Boris
Palmtop-pro Magazine
publishing editor
www.palmtop-pro.com


Reply to this

16bit M505 vs 8bit Clie
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 9:50:39 PM

I think people who compare these two don't realize there ain't much difference to the naked eye. As ED have reviewed, he cannot tell the difference from a 256 color picture and one of 16bit color. Maybe this is due to the cloudyness that some m505 owners have reported.

Some other people believe that having 16bit color will achieve better pictures. But if you think about it, 256 color does produce color banding, but it is at a much higher resolution (320x320). While m505 has 16bit colors, yet the pixelation of the machine will cause some color banding. In turn, they will both achieve the same colors, but the one with higher resolution will give better details and sharper image.

However m505 is still a great machine given the size of it with a built in expansion slot. If size is what you need, go for a m505, but if you want something new and innovative, with a great screen, get the clie.

Lastly, some has compared the iPaq with the new clie. I say the only comparison that you can really do is the screen itself. I've seen the pictures of the 3 machines and I say Clie has the best of the bunch. and best of all, its PalmOS. Now all i need is a place close to Canada so that I can drive down to get myself a Clie.

RE: 16bit M505 vs 8bit Clie
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 12:13:38 AM

Excellent point. I have a Clie and a Prism, I have to say even my Prism has 16 bit color, the resolution kills it. The Clie's 4 times higher resolution magnifies the visual effect. Now I suspect Palm and Handspring will push similar product given the overhelmingly good reputation of the Clie N-710C. Lets wait and see.


RE: 16bit M505 vs 8bit Clie
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 10:50:52 AM

Don't let the pictures fool you. The color on the Clie was not as intense as expected. Some have said that the colors on the m505 look milky. Having held the Clie in my hand, the colors are also "milky" and washed out. They are sharper though. Sharper is good. Washed out is not.

RE: 16bit M505 vs 8bit Clie
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 11:26:18 AM

Compared with Prism, the color of Clie is washed out, compared with, m505 color is also washed out (and because of the frontlight of m505 is not adjustable and very dim, the color looks more washed out than Clie, however, the m505 has more color but very dull).


Reply to this

VII
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 11:23:52 PM

can someone tell me if i can use AOL instant messenger on a VIIx. thanx


RE: VII
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 12:28:25 AM

i guess


RE: VII
Posted by: bcombee @ 5/28/2001 4:16:13 AM

There is a gateway PQA to send AOL IMs to other users, but you cannot receive instant messages, since the Palm VII/VIIx is not constantly connected -- it only gets data when you explicitly make a request.

RE: VII
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 11:28:21 AM

but couldnt you make a request constantly say like once every 5 seconds

RE: VII
Posted by: bcombee @ 5/29/2001 12:45:56 AM

Turn around time for a single request tends to be five to ten seconds. Having the device continually poll the server would run down the transmitter antenna in a few minutes, and drain the AAA's after an hour or so of usage.

Its just not feasible until a push-capable Palm, like the rumored m700, is available.


Reply to this

"Backlist" Graffiti area?
Posted by: jasonheyd @ 5/28/2001 9:34:42 AM


Anyone know if the Graffiti area of the N710C is backlist, as it is with the m505?


RE: "Backlit" Graffiti area ..
Posted by: jasonheyd @ 5/28/2001 9:36:12 AM


Meant "backLIT" not "list". :)


RE: Backlit
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 10:11:22 AM

No, at least the 700 is not. My guess the 710 is the same way.

RE:
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 10:16:27 AM

nope

RE:
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 11:23:49 AM

The four blocks (HOME, MENU, CALCULATOR, FIND) are backlit, the Graffitti area is not.

RE:
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 12:09:40 PM

>>The four blocks (HOME, MENU, CALCULATOR, FIND) are backlit, the Graffitti area is not.<<

Just as good!!

RE:
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 3:55:10 PM

Actually the graffitti area is lit a little since the front light sits underneath the top of the Graffitti area,
and the light can go to the top of the Graffitti area.

RE: Backlit graffiti area - NO, not on my US model
Posted by: PalmZealot @ 5/30/2001 2:00:37 PM

I just bought a Sony Clié N710C at Fry's last night. I had to charge it first to try it out - not like the HP Jornada 547 I bought last week (the HP 547 came with a Stowaway Keyboard, UBS cradle and 32MBRam for $399 - hand to try it - Ugh - S L O W . . . .).

I tried the Sony Clié N710C in the dark to see if the graffiti area was indeed lit, but is was NOT, and neither were the Home, Menu, Find or Calc areas. I found it impossible to write on the graffiti area in the darkness of the room while the mighty glow of the screen blinded me. Trying to find the "Brightness" button on the graffiti area was impossible too because it wasn't lit either.

While screen is bright, and sharp, but appears muddy and grey because of the bad CONTRAST setting. Too bad its not like the PPC's out on the market - like the HP 547 I bought last week - it of course has both Contrast and Brightness settings - something ANY color device SHOULD have. Your COLOR TV at home has a Contrast and Brightness adjustment, why not on these Palm OS handhelds????

Also point real quick if I may, the Sony Clié N710C is noticibly heavier than the other Palm PDA (minus the Prism of course), and if people are going to compare the m505 and the N710C, they should take into consideration the size of the two devices.

Its stands to reason that if the m505 had AS BIG a battery that the N710C uses, that the m505 would be AS BRIGHT and the battery life would last AS LONG as the Sony Clié N710C. Of course though, that would make the m505 AS BIG as the N710C, so what would be the point of having an m505 THAT BIG???? The m505 would loose its small sleak design. So that's the trade off.

After testing out the Sony Clié N710C, I have decided that I will be returning the Sony Clié N710C (like I did the HP 547). The Sony Clié N710C to me isn't worth the $537 (incld tax) I paid for it.


Reply to this

New Clie
Posted by: Dave @ 5/28/2001 12:37:54 PM

Few comments-
Sceen is pretty bright/colors little murky
Battery life in real testing doesn't last as long as m505
It is a thick machine, doesn't have the same pocketability factor.
To store songs on it, you need memory stick, which are very expensive.
Graffiti area does not glow.
Stick with your m505, it'll treat you right.
RE: New Clie
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 12:42:49 PM

another misinformed commenter


RE: New Clie
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 1:17:42 PM

how come everyone said memory stick is expensive. I found 64Mb for $78, how much is 64Mb of SD card anyway?

RE: New Clie
Posted by: twizza @ 5/28/2001 2:06:34 PM

i have seen the sd cards at expensive stores such as circuit city and best buy go for around $50-$55. the MMC versions go for about $15 less that that.

as for the price that u quoted. where was that. i have not see a 64mb mem stick for less that $80-$85.

RE: New Clie
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 2:31:50 PM

$50 for a 64Mb SD card? i don't think so. you said Circuit city, best buy... so there are no proves because but here is my prove of price for memory card, $78 for 64Mb
http://www.moreaudiovideo.com/Shopping/ItemList.cfm?ItemID=238

and $78.99 for 64Mb at
http://www.etronics.com/product.asp?stk_code=sonmsa64a&svbname=31

and $82 for 64Mb at ecost.com

please show me some place where they sell 64Mb of SD card for $50, please get real, don't post any message if you have nothing to back you up with

RE: New Clie
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 8:40:49 PM

Holly Cow!
Thats pretty cheap! $78.00 for a 64MB Mem stick.

I done know why i've been trying so hard to get one off Ebay !

New Clie will be the m505 killer!!!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 2:30:31 AM

OK, so the clie is only slighly bigger than the m505, and that the Clie uses only 8-bit color, and that the Clie uses memory sticks. So what?!?!

I don't understand why people are so fixated on these minor details.

Let's talk about the major details:
1. increase resolution 320x320
2. no grid-lines
3. built-in multi-media/MP3 support
4. jog-dail for easy navigation with a back button
5. adjustable screen contrast/brightness
6. better smoother text
7. brighter, whiter screen
8. longer battery life
9. 8 MB internal RAM, 4MB flash ROM, and 8MB memory stick included
10. travel charger included

The Clie has ALL the above while the m505 lacks them, and in my opinion, the features listed above most than justify fewer colors and a 0.16" thickness.

By the way, the color depth in the m505 is useless because of the dim screen.

New Clie will be the m505 killer!!!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 2:30:31 AM

OK, so the clie is only slighly bigger than the m505, and that the Clie uses only 8-bit color, and that the Clie uses memory sticks. So what?!?!

I don't understand why people are so fixated on these minor details.

Let's talk about the major details:
1. increase resolution 320x320
2. no grid-lines
3. built-in multi-media/MP3 support
4. jog-dail for easy navigation with a back button
5. adjustable screen contrast/brightness
6. better smoother text
7. brighter, whiter screen
8. longer battery life
9. 8 MB internal RAM, 4MB flash ROM, and 8MB memory stick included
10. travel charger included

The Clie has ALL the above while the m505 lacks them, and in my opinion, the features listed above most than justify fewer colors and a 0.16" thickness.

By the way, the color depth in the m505 is useless because of the dim screen.


Reply to this

Sony doesn't expect it to sell
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 1:16:53 PM

Look at the advertising. They spent millions to advertise the playstation 2 (before it came out), advertise their wega tv's, and their Vaio laptops. They haven't spent a dime advertising it. If the parent company doesn't care enough, why should we? Even if the Clie is the greatest handheld ever, if the parent company doesn't care the general public shouldn't either.


They are starting to advertise
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 4:07:57 PM

Actually I just saw the first ad on Friday.

It’s on the back cover of the June 1, 2001 Entertainment Weekly – not exactly a geek magazine.

They say it’s business tool because it runs the Palm OS. And it has entertainment features-it plays MP3’s and video clips.

I’m looking forward to getting my hands on one. –Just like a lot of other people.

I also hope that Sony can bring some add-on accessories to market soon too: wireless modem, folding keyboard, memory sticks with applications, etc.


RE: Sony doesn't expect it to sell
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 12:48:01 AM

My there are a lot of irrational people posting here with "Sony Envy".... The CLIE has sold out on the west coast in one weekend... hey Sony haters, my Mem Stick is bigger than your SD card!!

*arrogant chuckles*

RE: Sony doesn't expect it to sell
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 1:09:25 AM

You're an idiot!!

Did Palm advertise the m505 or m500 much?

Did Handspring advertise their products much?

I don't understand people like you, you post these ridiculous comments trying to trash a very good handheld. What's the matter? Did the Sony make your m505 look like crap? Are you afraid that Palm is going to get their butt kicked by SONY, HandEra, and Handspring?

RE: Sony doesn't expect it to sell
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 9:42:00 PM

Ummmm,
perhaps its not advertized because there are NONE TO BUY!!!!!
Cali is SOLD OUT.
REST of the country has yet to get it.

Lets advertize so frustated masses can go to their local retailer just to be disapointed!!!!

What an idiot.

RE: Sony doesn't expect it to sell
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 12:26:48 PM

Hey Sony/M505 fighters, my CF card has more memory than your memory sticks and SD cards combined.....

(not withstandng the fact that i can still use an SD card on top of that)...

ah, expandability....gotto love it

Handera330 user


Reply to this

Why is that?
Posted by: David Ross @ 5/28/2001 2:04:10 PM

Why is everyone fighting for their handheld? Just use the one you like and leave us alone!
RE: Why is that?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 4:27:54 PM

Because M505 owners are having a hard time right now. They have to keep justifying their M505 purchase to themselves. I think the more choices we have the better. But some M505 owners keep trolling any Clie' article with disparaging remarks about a PDA that most have never seen in real life.

Nobody wins with less choices, we all lose.

RE: Why is that?
Posted by: Gepeto @ 5/28/2001 5:32:33 PM

(David Ross = my Real name when I post from my Palm)
Exactly, but only to some extent. As long as most applications stay compatible with every device, I think the more choice the better. If people start to do Hi-res only applications, that's something else. And I think M505 may be right about the small size of it, but the CLIÉ is NOT a monster, it might be a bit bigger but some people like me don't care, we just want a bright screen with lots of pixels :)

David Ross
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 8:20:32 PM

David Ross? Are you David Ross from MacAddict?

RE: David Ross
Posted by: Gepeto @ 5/28/2001 9:17:25 PM

In fact I'm a student near Montreal. I'd love to have a brand new mac though :P


Reply to this

Clie low color count
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 5:09:11 PM

Somebody posted that the m505 has more possible colors that maximum pixels. I don't think he realizes that most people want this. The Clie with it's 256 color display, has only one different color for every 400 pixels if you fill up the screen evenly with all the colors. Do the math:
320x320=102400 pixels
/256 colors
400 pixels per color.
Now, that's not a very attractive number, is it?


RE: Clie low color count
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 5:29:35 PM

just look at the screen when you can get a hand on one, trust me the screen is much better than the m505, no question about it. No need for all these calculations. Just wait


RE: Clie low color count
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 11:01:37 PM

m505 has 16 bit color, but it looks like there are many layers of screen protector on the screen to dull the color.

RE: Clie low color count
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 2:19:51 AM

Why in the world would we want so much colours? It's a PDA after all, not some video player or photo album. These are just some extra sweet features, and ultimately, I think the higher resolution is more important in the long run.

RE: Clie low color count
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 4:04:12 AM

Here's some more math for you.

A 160x160, 16-bit color device has 25600 pixels and a range of 65536 colors. What do you need all those colors for?

An 8-bit color image, IF DITHERED WELL, can come very close to the quality of a 16-bit image in most cases.

Also, it was not too long ago that we were all playing 320x240 (or 320x200) DOS games in 8-bit VGA. (Kind of puts things in perspective, hm?) I never had any complaints about using a 256 color palette!


Reply to this

SIZE and the STICK
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 6:50:20 PM

It is nice too see that finally a bunch of us geeks finally realize that SIZE DOES MATTER !!

BTW - gotta stay away from memory stick - don't need a box of those to go with my beta machine. Long live CF - usable by more than Sony.

RE: SIZE and the STICK
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 7:24:54 PM

Sony and who else?

Could it be?!

Motorola for those following recent news.

RE: SIZE and the STICK
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 11:11:30 PM

Yeah good call... If Motorola makes the next Dragonball with memory stick support, I see a new standard for the PalmOS. And the next Clie will be sweet too!


Reply to this

RE: battery life
Posted by: Altema @ 5/28/2001 9:09:11 PM

Actually, the advertised battery life for the Sony is is 7.5 hours, The advertised battery life for the Palm M505 is 10.25 hours with mixed sidelight usage. With the sidelight on constantly, the time appears to be between 7 and 9 hours, so you can probably expect about 12 hours if you avoid the using the light at all, which is a flourescent display and should never burn out. Although neither one compares favorably with the III series (the IIIc will do up to 16 hours, IIIxe up to 30 hours), you have to consider the form factor of the M505 (smallest color device in the world), and the extra drain of the audio output on the Sony. What concerns me though, is that Palm OS users are beginning to bash Palm OS users. What gives? Both devices have their strong points and unique features. That's a good thing: we can pick our preferences and be a happy camper, and that does not mean we have to put down everyone else who may have different needs. The Pocket PC cannot gain the ground they want on Palm OS devices, even by giving away Desktop software, giving bribes to Palm supporters, and putting out full page cheap shots. However, Microsoft would love for this infighting to blow up, just so they can something more than their toenail in the PDA market. Open discussion on Palm OS device preferences is great, and the diversity will only make the Palm OS world stronger, but let's keep it civil.
RE: RE: battery life
Posted by: twizza @ 5/29/2001 12:08:03 AM

nicely said.


RE: RE: battery life
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 1:22:30 AM

Yes, I agree with you. I'm just irritated at all the people who are just posting wrong information about the Clie. I really wish people would stop, it's childish and unproductive.

But civility is no fun!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 8:24:36 AM

nt

RE: RE: battery life
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 10:16:43 AM

Debating the relative merits is useful. Ego-driven name calling is a waste of time. I'm pleased with my M505, but I'm glad there's another choice for those with different priorities.

RE: RE: battery life
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 11:10:32 AM

7 ~ 9 hours with sidelight on for M505?
I did a test as soon as I got my 505.
I use AOCtrlDA to keep my 505 on, with the sidelight on, it can only last for 5:49 (just idle, no any program running). If I kept the sidelight off, the battery life was 13:24. Both of them were measured by Runtime.

Is it normal? Can anybody tell me your battery life?

RE: RE: battery life
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 9:49:59 PM

Yeah why are we Palm OS people fighting?

Theres an Ipaq neard over there in the corner. Hes mumbling some Ram/Rom/bits sampling/ geekspeak.

Lets all go after HIM. :)


Reply to this

[ No Subject ]
Posted by: anonymous @ 5/29/2001 6:33:51 AM

Can the 710 actually play movies fluently? Or is this nothing more than an interesting demo of a still unrefined idea? It sounds too cool to be true!
RE: [ No Subject ]
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 4:24:59 PM

Unfortunatly no (but the audio is good). I am not if it is the software problem though!



Reply to this

RE: battery life
Posted by: Altema @ 5/29/2001 9:41:21 AM

Boris, you are right that these are not real world tests, they are indeed constant drain tests. Nobody uses their Palm that way. The only real-world numbers were for the III series of which I've had five. I have seen battery life testing manipulated in pretty extreme ways. One non-Palm organizer claimed to have a battery life of 180 hours continous! Reading the fine print, it turns out that the device was tested in a mode where there the screen was on, with no back light and no processing. Perhaps we could take a moment and standardize the tests. 30 minutes a day in a game demo mode, or something with the processor actually doing something?

Paul Campbell,
Telecommunications Network Engineer

RE: RE: battery life
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 1:00:51 PM

No bad idea at all.

But real life is even different from that.

We should consider once a day to:

Look up 20 addresses
Synchronise wireless to avantgo a given channel amount
Read email 15 minutes
Writing text for 20 minutes

Looks good in theory - but who has the time to do this for a prolonged time?

I would say - lets get on with life and accept the fact that the Palm 50x is a pretty good machine with a acceptable screen and enough battery life to make you comfortable in normal conditions - and let the fine details to the non-power user who crawl even in the last bit.

(Thought for expeditions which are away a prolonged period from their homebase like the one on:
www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=1923
We propose always battery driven Palms / Symbols / HandEra or battery emergency loader)

A power user is the one making the most of his machine by working with it every day and gaining benefit in being more productive or / and have simple good fun

- and not the one disassembling his Ferrari by the day (as only a freak does)
- changing oil and measuring the gas with a stick to calculate the consume

These chaps are avoiding driving around as the tires could get wet.

If the majority of users would more focus on real life problems (the proper software / solutions)and not trying to measure what’s not worth to measure as long at is basically ok- we would have a lot less useless flames and stress.

That’s the way I see it

Boris
www.palmtop-pro.com
--


Another theme: The chaps biting the nickel on this forum (on unimportant theoretical academic arguments) overlook that the product itself is not the mayor cost involved – if you choose the wrong tool (and thats the software) for your work means that you have to spend incredible time and effort later on.


Reply to this

This is REALLY sad
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 9:56:55 AM

I'm reading these post because I need a Palm and NONE of them are the perfect PDA for me. EVERY Palm I've looked at from EVERY manufacturer has some flaw. Handsprings are too big (the Edge is too expensive for being b/w). The Palm m505 screen isn't worth the $. The Clie has no wireless capability, and none planned for the immediate future. It's also NOT Mac compatible even though its USB. The Handera is cool, but again b/w screen and no wireless capability. The Kyocera is nice, but no Mac compatibility, and with the Samsung i300 months away, $500 is alot for a b/w screen. Even with all these visible flaws (give the high price of the "high end" models there is NO reason any of you should be quibbling that one model is better than another. Each has a stong point AND a weak point. In reality, there is very little that a m500 or a Clie can do that an M100 can't do. If you want to watch a movie on your PDA, go ahead. I need to get real productivity and performance for the $ out of whatever PDA I get. If I want to watch a movie I've got a DVD player in my laptop.


Get the m100 if you are cheap, get the m505 if you are not.
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 11:17:28 AM

This isn't rocket science.


RE: This is REALLY sad
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 12:08:41 PM

The Clie is compatible with a USB Macintosh if you get the Markspace (www.markspace.com) Clie Macpak. I use this on my Clie 300 and my brother uses it on his 710 he picked up Saturday at Frys San Diego. Cost is around $30.00.

PS-Sony actually will tell you to buy the Markspace software if you want to use a Clie on a MAC.

It's NOT about being cheap!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 2:08:24 PM

The point is everyone here is bickering over which PDA is the balls out best when NONE of the them are. They ALL have there weak points. I'm not buying ANY Palm now. I'm not alone here. Palm is on hard times because ONLY ubergeeks will tolerate their unimpressive line of PDAs. Give me a M505 with a hi-rez bright color screen, wireless capability to get MY email (not just palm.net), out of the box compatibility with Windows and Mac, add in a few whiz bang features like MP3 and then you might have a PDA worth of $450. Until then its all junk.

You are asking for features that you really don't need.
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 3:35:28 PM

nt

RE: This is REALLY sad
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 10:00:03 PM

Yeah why are we Palm OS people fighting?

Theres an Ipaq neard over there in the corner. He's mumbling some Ram/Rom/bits sampling/ geekspeak.

Lets all go after HIM. :)


RE: This is REALLY sad
Posted by: Chromosome @ 5/30/2001 1:24:11 PM

I love my m505--it's a better fit for my needs than the Sony. I also give a nod to Sony for developing the memory stick (SD/MMC) technology that Palm incorperated into the m50x. Most importantly, thanks to the Clie enthusiasts who developed the software (MSMount, McFile, and PowerRun) that really made the MMC work. It was even a Clie enthusiast who wrote a thread to walk us all through using these progerams last month! For those Clie lovers-enjoy your powerful new device! Functionally superior to my m505 but a little bigger. I respect you and appreciate you. Remember the words of Rodney King.. ;)

Chromosome

RE: This is REALLY sad
Posted by: CarlJ @ 5/30/2001 2:09:41 PM

I agree -- I love my new Clie; it's a better fit for my needs than the m505. I really like the m505 as well, but I am among those disappointed by the screen brightness. If the m505 screen works well for others (or perhaps you received units better/brighter than the demo models I saw), well, hey, that's cool, too.

As far as size goes, from my perspective it was, "hey, cool, the Clie is smaller than my IIIx", rather than, "gack, the Clie is bigger than a Vx". Sure, I'd love to have a Clie screen/backlight in an m505 body, but then I also want a 400mhz StrongARM, 32mb memory, flat-rate wireless Internet connectivity, and OS5... don't we all? :-)

It seems everyone is also arguing the relative merits of MemStick vs. SD/MMC vs. CF... (okay, well, granted, CF wins hands down on IO device support at this point, but you just can't build a CF-sized slot into a m505-sized handheld right now). But I see this as mostly a non-issue at this point, if you use the slot for external memory, and aren't buying / dragging around handfuls of the cards... I'm delighted by how transparently software that uses Palm's VFS API works between the two -- all the Clie MSMount-style software works on the m50x, and things advertised as supporting SD/MMC, like Palm's PalmReader (née PeanutReader), work just fine on my Clie/MemStick.

I'm looking forward to more programs supporting VFS, so you can, for example, keep a 100k dictionary app in main memory that reads from a 10mb database on a MS/SD/MMC/CF card. I'd love to see more document readers be able to directly read documents off the card (like PalmReader), without the use of MSMount or tricks to temporarily copy databases to RAM.


Reply to this

Call/Email Sonystyle and ask why pre-orders weren't shipped!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 2:52:36 PM

orderhelp@sonystyle.com

888-900-9872

Let them know they shouldn't treat their customers
this way. Ask why retails stores are selling them
when their pre-orders (with an announced ship date
of the 28th!!!) are still not shipping!


RE: Call/Email Sonystyle and ask why pre-orders weren't shipped!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 4:27:20 PM

If I recall correctly, Palm did the same thing for m505 (correct me if I am wrong).


RE: Call/Email Sonystyle and ask why pre-orders weren't shipped!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 5:59:36 PM

Does anyone know when will they start shipping the pre-orders?

RE: Call/Email Sonystyle and ask why pre-orders weren't shipped!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 9:37:11 PM

yeah - after everyone else gets theirs at retail.

Call them / Email them - let them know they shouldn't
treat their customers this way.

RE: Call/Email Sonystyle and ask why pre-orders weren't shipped!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 1:00:35 PM

Did you call Palm telling them that they shouldn't do that either?

RE: Call/Email Sonystyle and ask why pre-orders weren't shipped!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 4:42:27 PM

yes.

a pox on both their houses!
and on Staples too, for a $20 pre-order fee
that got you nothing.


Reply to this

Choices
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 4:35:26 AM

I am new to the world of PDA's following a IIIXE for Xmas last year. Like many of the commentators here, I quickly became an avid fan and tossed my self-printed paper planner. I am now trying to figure out which PDA to upgrade to. I need "power organizing" but I also appreciate "quality distractions" to fill the space between connecting flights. I do not however need to watch DVD's or view professional photographs on my PDA. Despite the critcism regarding the backlight, I was leaning towards the m505. I am happy for any pointers available for this newcomer and would like to know what other kinds of "plug-ins" are likely to be made available for the m505? Is it possible that a mp3 plug-in could produced in the same manner as PDA cameras? Is there a good site that has an easily digestible "head-to-head" comparison? These may be silly questions but greatful for any info.

Get a USA-Made m505. Use EasyView from PalmGear.com
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 9:04:17 AM

You will love it. Great upgrade from your III.



Reply to this

A wireless modem?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 2:13:52 PM

And when is the Sony Clié going to get a wireless modem? I got the Palm m505 because of Minstrel's support of the Palm platform. They've announced a wireless modem for the Palm m505, what good will the extra resolution be if you can't surf the web with the Clié? No thanks, but I'll take a Palm m505 with a Mistrel m500 and Blazer to surf the web wireless. The Sony Clié is just too limitied for me.


RE: A wireless modem?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 2:49:16 PM

I already have a wireless modem that works great with my Clie' ( as well as all of my Visors, Palms and PPCs). It is called a Nokia 8290 GSM phone. It works with any of my organizers via IR. It works with Palm's Mobile Internet Kit.

I was one of the original beta testers for OmniSky and used them until about three months ago. Bad software, bulky device and sporadic connections finally made me come to my senses. The phone makes a much better wireless modem.

Yeh! Who needs a Wireless modem, NOT ME!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 3:51:52 AM

Exactly what I was thinking,
I have a GSM cell phone with IR, which cost me nothing more than my phone contract, and it doubles as a modem for my PALMs.

RE: A wireless modem?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 10:24:45 AM

To the Wireless GSM phone users... What wireless service can you use the phones with in the U.S.? Sprint, Verizon, Voicestream, or others?
Thanks...
(Have a Palm V now, Still trying to decide between Clie N710C, Palm 505, or maybe, yes, even the iPaq)

RE: A wireless modem?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 11:05:53 AM

I am in San Jose, CA and use Cingular (formerly Pacific Bell).

Sprint Solution
Posted by: dstrauss @ 5/31/2001 2:02:30 PM

I just bought an all-in-one cable from www.thesupplynet.com which connects my Palm Vx to my Samsung 8500 cell phone. I enabled Wireless Web ($10 per month plus using cell minutes vs. $.39 per minute plus using minutes) and it works great for reaching email, but very slow for web surfing (19.2 +/-). You don't even need a dialup internet account, as you can quick connect to the Sprint net. For example, three short (one paragraph) email downloads and a single upload took 52 seconds (under the magic 1 minute useage). Not as seemless as an all-in-one phone, but for $50 for a cable, a lot cheaper.

RE: A wireless modem?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 3:48:53 PM

I don't consider a GSM phone a very simple or efficient solution for wireless access. The Minstrel m500 modem clips right onto the Palm and doesn't use any power from the Palm itself. IR communication for a sustained period will probably drain the battery a little faster. If there were a data cable solution it might be better, but you still have to fumble with two devices and a cable. The Mistrel adds only ounces to the back of the Palm and they clip together. Adding more weight to the Sony Clié would make it the heaviest PDA out there short of a PocketPC or laptop. We need some SIMPLE solutions for wireless access!

RE: A wireless modem?
Posted by: fleegle @ 5/31/2001 11:34:18 PM

"I am in San Jose, CA and use Cingular (formerly Pacific Bell)."

Which plan are you using? Does it use your voice minutes?

RE: A wireless modem?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 6/1/2001 2:03:39 AM

The way that Cingular works in CA is to add on a service called "PCS Data Connect". This is a second number that uses the data line for the phone. This means that it can also receive incoming data calls and faxes. On my phone it just pipes them out over IR if I accept the call.

The plan costs 4.99 per maonth and $.15 per minute of connect time. For me based on the 5 minutes or less per day that I averaged on the OmniSky, I am saving a huge amount of money. In the last four months, it has already paid for the phone. Connection strength is also much stronger than I ever got off of the OmniSky.


Reply to this

N710C at Best Buy!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 3:20:39 PM

For those of us east of Arizona with Fry's envy, I just wanted to let you know that I picked up my N710C at Best Buy this afternoon (5/30), so I would guess they should be all around the US by the end of the week.


RE: N710C at Best Buy!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 4:11:29 PM

Which Best Buy?


RE: N710C at Best Buy!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 5:02:45 PM

In a suburb of Chicago. Sorry for not mentioning the location.

RE: N710C at Best Buy!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 7:00:07 PM

Also in Mich, at the Dearborn Best Buy!

RE: N710C at Best Buy!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 10:36:09 AM

What is Best Buys return policy? I have an m505 that I got from OD and their return was 14 days

RE: N710C at Best Buy!
Posted by: LeshMan @ 5/31/2001 8:27:52 PM

I just went to the Best Buy on North May in Oklahoma City and they got two N710c's: one for demo purposes, and I bought the other one. They also let me trade in my old Palm Vx and get $280 towards the Clie!!!

RE: N710C at Best Buy!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 8:43:20 PM

North Olmsted, Ohio (suburb of Cleveland) has a few too. They just got it this afternoon. However their demo still isn't charged up.

RE: N710C at Best Buy!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 6/1/2001 10:43:04 PM

Thanks for the tip in North Olmsted. I traveled there tonight to see it in person from Medina, Oh. Unfortunately, the unit was not charged and I was not able to view the screen. Ugghhh!!! The salesperson suggested that I stop by tomorrow and he would try to remember to charge it overnight. I own a M505 and was very curious to see the screen and compare it to my unit. Personally, I'm very happy w/ my m505 and plan to keep it but just curious on what the Clie has to offer.


Reply to this

Best Buy in stock date
Posted by: Rob Zimmerman @ 5/31/2001 3:59:00 PM

The new Clie is now in stock in a few Best Buy stores. I work at Best Buy and my store has it..YES!!! I am buying it now it rules. By sunday it should be in all stores.
Reply to this

CASE
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 6:09:15 PM

What does the case with the clie look like? is it one of those slip on things or does it attach to the unit like the palms so you dont have to take the thing in and out?

Anyone have a picture?

Thanks

go the the web site you lazy F
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 6/1/2001 10:23:54 AM

nt



Reply to this

THE TOP INSTUMENT
Posted by: NARONGSAK @ 6/1/2001 9:53:19 AM

should have data of sony cin7
RE: THE TOP INSTUMENT
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 6/1/2001 10:57:47 AM

uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


WHAT ?

You speaka english ?


Reply to this


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Where are all of the m505 supporters?

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 4:08:32 PM #
Where are all of the m505 supporters? These people insulted and ridiculed anyone who criticized the m505 and now they are nowhere to be found.

Speak up now or forever be known as hype gorging sheep.



RE: Where are all of the m505 supporters?
Gepeto @ 5/31/2001 6:24:28 PM #
Oh well we won't miss them!

RE: Where are all of the m505 supporters?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 6:52:54 PM #
right here.

i like the m505. small like the v but color, plus a simple way to expand memory. it is great for what it is. a PDA, not a computer, not a gaming station.

but, if you want to think that it-is-a-waste-of-money/screen-sucks/330-is-better/710-does-mp3, well, fine by me, get one of those and enjoy.

RE: Where are all of the m505 supporters?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 7:14:19 PM #
I'm another one who's happy with his M505. Bummer that it's price is being reduced so quickly though. Oh well. That's the price for buying bleeding edge new stuff.

My M505 does exactly what I want it to. That is to easily keep track of and sync all 3000 clients in my Now Contact Database. And keep track of all of my appointments. And I also have several aviation related programs that I use.

If you work outdoors in bright sunlight there is no other color Palm device that works as well.

It's also small enough to be able to keep it in your pocket.

I am an m505 owner and I love it too.
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 8:11:14 PM #
I saw the new Clie and it's sweet but I still like my m505 better.

RE: Where are all of the m505 supporters?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 8:19:49 PM #
is that because you can't return it anymore? just wonder

RE: Where are all of the m505 supporters?
higgy @ 5/31/2001 8:59:14 PM #
I love my M505. For me it is all about size. The smaller the PDA, the more I will carry it, the more I will use it. Besides, I think I listened to an MP3 a couple years ago.

RE: Where are all of the m505 supporters?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 9:30:19 PM #
Have you seen those Clie ads? Ughh!! They're so ugly! They make the Clie look like it has about 16 colors, and the text doesn't describe it for what it is. Why can't Sony bring it's advertising expertise to that? By the way, I think the reason Palm is dropping the price is to lure people away from buying a Clie that costs $100 more. You might see those prices rise soon when Sony realizes they have to destroy the inventory because no one wants them.

RE: Where are all of the m505 supporters?
Sholey @ 6/1/2001 12:16:59 AM #
I don't know why you guys have nothing to do but debate why you like the 505 or not! I have it and love it. Would I like a contrast control? of course! But that dosn't make the product suck like your making it out to be!
FYI I have owned the pilot, palm V & the IIIc I this is the best one yet! Long live The Palm!

RE: Where are all of the m505 supporters?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/1/2001 1:03:38 AM #
I bought a Sony Clié N710C at Fry's the other night. I had to charge the Clie first in order to try it out - not like the HP Jornada 547 I bought last week. The HP547 came already charged and ready to play. The only reason I bought it was that it came with a Stowaway Keyboard, UBS cradle and 32MBRam for $399 - good deal I thought, but - Ugh & S L O W!!

While the Sony Clié N710C screen is bright, and sharp, it is muddy and gray because of the bad CONTRAST setting. Too bad its not like the PPC's out on the market - like the HP 547 I bought last week - those models of course has both Contrast and Brightness settings - something ANY color device SHOULD have. Your COLOR TV at home has a Contrast and Brightness adjustment, why not on the color Palm OS PDA's????

I found the Sony Clié N710C noticeably heavier than the other Palm PDA (minus the IIIC and the Prism of course), and if people are going to compare the m505 and the N710C, they should take into consideration the size of the two devices.

Its stands to reason that if the m505 had _AS BIG_ a battery that the N710C uses, that the m505 would be _AS BRIGHT_ and the battery life would last _AS LONG_ as the Sony Clié N710C. Of course though, that would make the m505 _AS BIG_ as the N710C, so what would be the point of having an m505 __THAT BIG__????

The m505 would loose its small sleek design w/color. So, of course, that's the trade off. Big, heavy (relative) and bright, or slim, dim and dainty.

After testing out the Sony Clié N710C, I decided that I would return the Sony Clié N710C (like I did the HP 547). The Sony Clié N710C to me isn't worth the _$537_ (incld tax) I paid for it. That's too much for a color Palm OS PDA, especially considering that the Palm m505 is now only $418 (plus tax).

For now, I'll stick with my TRG Pro, and buy a Handera 330 when Sam's club starts selling them.

Lastly, but not least, EVERYONE seems to have FORGOTTEN that this new Clie is Sony's _SECOND_ attempt at making a _COLOR_ Palm PDA.

Remember the c500 model????? It had _NO_ backlight and a _VERY POOR_ screen. It was often compared to the old Color Game Boy. That was Sony's first color Palm OS PDA and _EVERYONE HATED IT_!!!!

Now, Palm makes its first slim-color PDA, and just about EVERYONE seems to hate it!!! You can bet your life that Palm will make the second slim color Palm PDA with much better color and brightness.

You HAVE to consider that it stands to reason that if the m505 had _AS BIG_ a battery that the N710C uses, that the m505 could be _AS BRIGHT_ and the battery life could last _AS LONG_ as the Sony Clié N710C.

But the m505 doesn't have _AS BIG_ a battery that the N710C uses, and therefore it CANNOT be expected to be _AS BRIGHT_ as the Sony Clié N710C. I'm totally surprised no one had figured that out already!

-PalmZealot


RE: Where are all of the m505 supporters?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/1/2001 7:02:33 AM #
"You HAVE to consider that it stands to reason that if the m505 had _AS BIG_ a battery that the N710C uses, that the m505 could be _AS BRIGHT_ and the battery life could last _AS LONG_ as the Sony Clié N710C."

You are a fucking idiot. The Sony is a barely noticeable 1.5 oz heavier than the m505 and its display makes the m505 look like a joke. You sound like either a Palm employee attempting to spread FUD about the Sony or else an idiotic troll trying to create controversy.

My advice to anyone looking for a PDA: go to a retail outlet and try out the models for yourself. Trust your eyes and go with your gut feeling. And remember - if you don't like something about a particular model now, you probably will grow to *hate* that aspect several months down the road.

It will be interesting to see what all those Palm apologists who claim the m505 screen is "adequate" in "certain lighting conditions" do with their PDAs in the next few months once they see the superior displays that are coming out. The desperation shown by m505 owners in looking for software fixes for the m505 display deficiencies pretty much sums up why the m505 has become Palm's latest disaster. Witness the bogus Memo Pad Contrast Hack, bright505, m505 Supernova, Glow Hack, and the three or four other hacks/programs people are using to keep the sidelight on.

I seriously doubt Palm will survive the year in its present state, but at the same time, I hope they can recover from their mistakes.

RE: Where are all of the m505 supporters?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/1/2001 3:28:26 PM #
I have a 505 and I've seen the Clie. My vote is hands down for the 505. The Clie just LOOKS like it's more cheaply constructed. If you were to ask me to drop the Sony and the Palm from the same height and ask me which one would be more likely to survive, I'd say the Palm. The screen does look *slightly better* on the Sony, but it's not worth the size difference. It may only weigh 1.5oz more but the size difference is more than enough to be felt in my pocket. Not worth an extra $100 in my book.

I bought the Palm to be a PDA, not an MP3 player, not a mobile photo album, not a pocket PC. This is my first palm device, simply because of the size. I couldn't see myself carrying anything larger around with me 24/7. The sony would not fit comfortably in my pants pocket. The palm does.

I'm not sure I'd spend the money to upgrade if I already have a Palm device I liked, but this is the first one for me, and it may win over a lot of people who don't have one now.

I like my 505 and wouldn't trade it for any Visor or Sony for even money.

RE: Where are all of the m505 supporters?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/2/2001 1:40:59 AM #
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 4:13:41 PM

I saw it here first, it seems to be a new bulletin board.

http://www.infosync.no/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi

RE: battery life
Posted by: Cheetah @ 5/28/2001 1:40:04 AM

interesting charts. Shows 505 with and without backlight on vs. PPC in a battery test.

505 with backlight on has similiar battery life then the other PPC. But without backlight, the 505 has over TWICE the battery life.

This is exactly the point! 505 does not need backlight on all the time (not in direct sunlight and in good indoor light) therefore the battery life is much better then PPC in the practical world.

I love my 505 and only use backlight when in poor lighting. In the office the screen is fine without the backlight.

I would also say that the 505 with the backlight on in a dark room (e.g. movie theater) is 1000% better then the reverse backlight of the Palm Vx.


Reply to this

Clie N710C availability
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 5:11:04 PM

As of 05/26 1:10 PM

Sunnyvale -- Out (confirmed by sale person)
Palo Alto -- Out (confirmed by sale person)
San Jose -- around 6 in the shelf (they have 12 in stock originally)

RE: Clie N710C availability
Posted by: CarlJ @ 5/26/2001 9:52:09 PM

As of 05/26 around noon, San Diego Frys:

I believe there were four in stock when I first walked past the shelf to go look at the demo model; when I came back to pick up a box there were three left (including the one I took), then when I walked past 30 minutes later before getting in the checkout line, the shelf was bare :-)

RE: Clie N710C availability
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 5:42:53 AM

The Fremont Fry's is also carrying them, however when you call them and ask to see if they are in stock they won't know what you are talking about. Try giving them the item number: 3011669 they can look it up in their computers that way.

They do have it on display for those who want to compare the m505 screen and the Clie screen. I must admit, I've been playing with mine for several hours and it rocks. :)


Reply to this

Great Photos
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 7:27:01 PM

Check these out!!

These are comparing the IPAQ, CLIE, and Palm m505

http://briefcase.yahoo.com/dreamwave6


Clie is 2x thickness of m505.
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 8:23:27 PM

http://y42.briefcase.yahoo.com/dreamwave6


RE: Great Photos
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 11:08:56 AM

The Clie is twice as thick as the m505, but it's not as wide. It actually fits in the typical jeans pocket BETTER.

RE: Great Photos
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 12:44:57 PM

Its thinker, yes, but not TWICE as think! The clie is thinner then two m505 stacked on each other.
m505 .5" Clie .66" [505 x 2 = 1 INCH]

RE: Clie is 2x thickness of m505.
Posted by: CarlJ @ 5/29/2001 6:54:04 PM

The Clie is 5/8 inch thick, the m505 is 1/2 inch. That's a difference of 1/8 inch, or 25 PERCENT, not "twice as thick". The m505 is also about 1/8 inch shorter, and 3/8 inch WIDER than the Clie.

I pre-ordered the m505 (the night before they were announced); I cancelled when they started showing up in the stores and I saw first-hand how dim the screen was. I went to see the new Clie on Saturday, not intending to buy it, just to look... and ended up plunking down my money and taking one home (this, after comparing the "floor model" extensively against the m505 sitting next to it; I had a friend with me, she wanted to know where the brightness control was on the m505).

The Clie is smaller than my old Palm IIIx (a teensy bit shorter, 3/8 inch narrower, the same thickness), and has by far the best screen ever seen on a PalmOS handheld. I'm running with the backlight at about 25 percent -- at 100 percent, you could use it as a flashlight. At 320x320, the screen is simply breathtaking, and at 160x160, there is _no_ trace of the dreaded "black grid".

If the m505 had the Clie's backlight (I'm not talking about the hi-res screen, mind you, just the bright, adjustable, backlight), I would have gotten the m505 instead (weeks ago) -- I *like* the m505, it's sleek and sexy, and will no doubt be more widely supported. But, to me, the whole point of color is to make the information on the screen easier to read, and I found the m505's dim screen to be an impediment, not a benefit.

Folks, it's time to stop all the bickering; wait until you have a chance to compare the Clie and m505 side-by-side in a store somewhere, and *then* decide which is best for *you*.

RE: Great Photos
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 1:04:56 AM

If we bicker the only one who wins is Bill Gates.


Reply to this

The new Sony
Posted by: Edd @ 5/26/2001 8:05:14 PM

Hi, I just went to Fry's in Manhattan Beach to see the new color Clie and when we were there, we beamed the Photosuite and some pictures from our M505 just so we can compare them side by side. The resolution on the new Sony is awesome, not only the fonts look smoother on the Sony but also the pictures. There are no jagged edges on the fonts (not that I can see). The only thing is Sony can only display 256 colors and the Palm has more (16 bits).

When comparing side by side you can clearly see the Palm has more richer color display (but dimmer). Supposedly, the Japanese version of the Clie has more features than the one imported here. :(

Hey Edd,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 8:54:11 PM

quote from Edd: "Supposedly, the Japanese version of the Clie has more features than the one imported here. :("

What features are you talking about?

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: Edd @ 5/26/2001 9:31:27 PM

According to this Sony website in Japan http://www.sony.co.jp/sd/ProductsPark/Consumer/PEG/PEG-N700C/tv.html You're supposed to be able to download and watch TV on your Clie. I didn't see that mention anywhere on the USA box at Fry's.

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 9:36:29 PM

Go to www.genericmedia.com and download the app that Sony is packaging with it's Japanese CLIE. Get the Palm movie player and their movie maker. If you already have a TV-tuner card and WinVCR or something like that, you should be able to do it. Of course, you could just go buy this VAIO desktop from Sony specifically designed to record television programs instead of using your own TV-tuner card and WinVCR: http://www.sonystyle.com/vaio/digitalstudio/index.html

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 9:41:40 PM

Here ya' go...direct link: http://www.genericmedia.com/news_pr09.html

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: Edd @ 5/26/2001 9:49:40 PM

Thanks. Now let me go return my M505 :) while it still within 14 days return period at Staples.

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 9:59:30 PM

Remember, to have the Japanese have with their CLIE's, you'll have to have a large harddrive to capture a 1-hour long TV show or a really big one to capture a 2-hour long movie, then you'll have to have a much higher capacity Memory Stick than the 8MB one that comes with the CLIE. The 64MB Memory Stick goes for around $100 on eBay and the newer 128MB Memory Sticks go for around $200. These prices will come down eventually but as you can see it is going to be an expensive proposition to make the CLIE a portable movie player, which is EXACTLY what I plan to use mine for :)

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 10:26:24 PM

Try this out !!!

Using a program called HRCapt (DA Program)
located at:
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/fairy/chimer...OthersPalm.html
(it's in japanese),
I made several screen captures of my N710C Clie in various modes and pictures.
THe program captures Hi resolution as well as low, i've posted the pictures at:

http://members.nbci.com/nxt/clie710...0screencap.html

and yes, this IS a REAL screen capture from n710c

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 10:44:38 PM

Can't get your page up

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 10:44:38 PM

Can't get your page up

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 11:10:31 AM

Also, the nipponese clie doesn't play MP3. The American one does.

MP3
Posted by: Edd @ 5/27/2001 11:56:46 AM

Hmm.. I thought it does according to this page:

http://www.sony.co.jp/sd/ProductsPark/Consumer/PEG/PEG-N700C/music.html

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:23:55 PM

I realize the Sony has Mp3, Attrac, etc. play back; however, will these movies be encoded with sound via gMovie Maker and can they be played back with sound on gMovie Player?

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:25:44 PM

One other question, how big would say an hour long show encoded in MPEG-1 wind up. In other words, how much could you fit on a 128 meg memory stick?

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:44:45 PM

I saw the new Sony at a local Fry's and was impressed. The size and weight between the 505 and the N710c were comparable, one's a little wider, the other a little thicker. The screen was obviously sharper on the Sony, but when comparing the color, the Palm was actually richer. I was surprised. The brightness is great on the Clie, but the colors look washed out. Is there any way of increasing the contrast?

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 9:00:01 PM

Nope!

RE: 1-hr mpeg
Posted by: vgz @ 5/28/2001 1:12:37 AM

>>One other question, how big would say an hour long show encoded in MPEG-1 wind up. In other words, how much could you fit on a 128 meg memory stick?

It would depend on the frame rate but I have several mpeg files and a 50minute 17 sec mpeg is 489.6 MB. Good luck getting that on a memorystick.


Matt

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 3:07:02 PM

The Japanese 700 plays ONLY ATRAC3 format on white copy-protection memory sticks.

The American 710 plays ATRAC3 (bleah!) or MP3, and it can store MP3s on the cheaper, non-encrypted blue sticks.

Matt...gMovie Maker converts PC video files to gMovie format
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 7:49:34 PM

with sound. The gMovie Maker reformats the video to 320x320 resolution. A decent quality picture at a decent frame rate will get you about 1 minute of video with sound for every 1MB on the MS. Thus, a 128MB MS will let you watch a 2-hour movie.

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: eipangan @ 5/28/2001 9:27:04 PM

Starting June 18, users of the Japanese model can now download MediaPlayer 2.0, which can play MP3 off the blue stick. The download is priced at 2,000 yen but is on sale for the first few months - 1,500 yen.

Screenshots? Bah!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 6:54:51 PM

Ummm... You could put a bullet through the front of the Clie and the screenshots would look the same. Those do not show what the Clie's display does, it shows us what our computer moniors do.


Reply to this

Clie is big!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 10:48:55 PM

Holy cow! That thing is a monster! I though it would be closer to the palm m505, but it's beast! Be prepared to have a heavy, metal object (basically an iPaq in size) in your pocket if you get one of these. Screen is ok though, but not as vivid as described.


RE: Clie is big!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:42:04 AM

What do you base your comments about screen quality on??


RE: Clie is big!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 11:11:19 AM

Nope. It's nowhere near as big as an iPaq.

It's thicker than an m505, but not as thick as a Visor Prism. And because of the reduced width, it's very pocketable.

RE: Clie is big!
Posted by: TvM @ 5/27/2001 8:06:49 PM

It is plastic

RE: Clie is big!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 11:06:40 PM

It's NOT plastic!! It's metal... at least the front is, not sure about the back. You people should stop makig all these statements if you don't have anything to back it up.

RE: Clie is big!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 2:28:59 AM

Yes, stop those crap comments without proof! I own a Clie N700C, and having it put side by side with the iPaq, the size difference is great! Whoever says that they are the same, basically, you have neither seen both devices, or maybe never even seen them before!

Yes, its thicker than the 505, but its way thinner than Prism. Its in between. With the case on, m505 will be as thick as the Clie (with the flip cover on)

ON the other hand, the Clie is narrower, so it appears smaller, and it is thus very pocketable (in the pants pocket, not the shirt)


Reply to this

reseting
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 11:12:35 PM

how do i do a hard reset on my new clie ?


RE: reseting
Posted by: Shane @ 5/27/2001 6:05:57 AM

Your Clie come with a book called Instructions. If you turn to the first few pages you will find the Contents. If you look for resetting in there and turn to the right page it will explain how to do it.


RE: reseting
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:43:10 AM

LOL!! The questions some people ask! Hmm..2-10 hrs to get a reply to a post, vs 4 mins to look it up in the manual......decisions, decisions....


Reply to this

Here are the Links
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 12:27:29 AM

This is nXt btw, Mike Cane earlier posted some of my websites, unfortunately Geocities killed my account because I had some files!
The new pages are at the following

Mini Review:
http://members.nbci.com/nxt/clie710/710review.html

Screen Captures: <-- Must See
http://members.nbci.com/nxt/clie710/710screencap.html

Digital Camera Pictures:
http://members.nbci.com/nxt/clie710/cliepicture.html

RE: Here are the Links
Posted by: mikecane @ 5/27/2001 1:31:37 PM

Thanks, nXt! I should have read the board completely before I posted the other links above. These new ones seem to work.


RE: Here are the Links
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 10:11:40 PM

Thanks so much nXt for the screen capture pics. I was hoping that somewhere on the net would be some screen captures. Please add more when you have time.

I see you enlarged a 160x160 pic to the size of the 320x320 pic for comparison, but can you do it the other way around please? Reduce the hi res to the same size as low res so they can be compared that way too.

Thanks again! Good work.

RE: Here are the Links
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 3:56:23 AM

When enlarging the 160x160 screenshots in Photoshop, you should use Nearest Neighbor interpolation instead of Bicubic. This will accurately represent pixel-doubling.


Reply to this

Size!
Posted by: Cheetah @ 5/27/2001 6:22:01 AM

Hmmmm...more vibrant screen (although not 16bit), BUT much thicker, longer, and heavier!

That's the point of the 505. It has color yet retains it's small size and good battery life.

I've used my 505 for two weeks now and love it.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 6:50:36 AM

I agree about the size. Much as I tried to like the iPaq, the size issue was a killer for me. I use my m505 alot and just could not see carrying an iPaq like device around all day.

It may be fine for those who carry it from desk to meeting, to desk and home. But as a sales professional who lives with it - no way. People forget that is what Palm had in mind when it balanced the features of the device.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:47:08 AM

It may be thicker, but many new owners have said it fits the hand better than the 505

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 11:12:40 AM

Check it out before you write it off as bulky. The size is actually very good in actual use.

RE: Size!
Posted by: Edd @ 5/27/2001 12:02:06 PM

It fits comfortably in my hand and it slightly narrower than my M505 (so that you can use your thumb to operate the jog dial). Then new jog dial now has the back button (the monochrome one didn't have that) and it comes with PowerJog.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 12:50:20 PM

I have used it, and IT IS BIGGER, period. It is twice and thick, grab a ruler and check, I did. Yes it is slightly less in width, but does not make up for the depth. My PalmV was in a titanium hard case and I had it in my front pocket always, in the hard case it was still thinner than the clie, now I have the m505, and size wise it win hands down. Nothing fits in my pocket better.

Just my opinion. To each his own.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 12:58:42 PM

what is the point of carrying it around and the screen is annoying to look at?

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 1:23:06 PM


Hee hee hee

I love how we always get of the subject ,turn things around and make it us against them .LOL =)This makes me laugh alot.

Very antertaining .

Thanx

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 1:25:01 PM

What is the point of having a beautiful screen to look at if you never carry it around with you because it is too bulky?

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 1:52:29 PM

hahahah, palm company is dying and their customers are trashing each other products, PPC won heheheheeh I like it

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 2:27:24 PM

The CLIE's thickness is .03" thinner than the very portable visor deluxe form factor. The CLIE is not a brick. You people are a bunch of whinning, anorexic wimps!!

Hey, two 3x5 cards would really dissapear in your pants pocket. Just carry a few of those around and quit whining.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 7:39:28 PM

Clie thickness is 1.68 in, width is 7.1 in
M505 thickness is 1.27 in, width is 7.874 in

And when you are holding a PDA, the important parameters are the width and height (where width is more important than height). Simple math for calulcating the length to fit into your palm

width for Clie is 7.1 in
width for M505 is 7.874 in
The difference is 0.774 in (Clie win)

thickness for Clie is 1.68 in
thickness for M505 is 1.27 in
The difference is .41 in (M505 win)

width + 2 * thickness for Clie is 10.46 in
width + 2 * thickness for M505 is 10.414 in

The difference is 0.046 in (M505 win).

If you calculate the perimeter

2*width + 2 * thickness for Clie is 17.56 in
2*width + 2 * thickness for M505 is 18.288 in

The difference is 0.728 in (Clie win).

Of course, volume wise, Clie is still a little larger, but it is not as what some people claimed it to be BULKIER, HEAVIER. Sounds like Clie is way too big but it is not.

Besides the weight difference is only 20 g, if you put an MP3 plyer in M505, see how much that gonna weight?

M505 is definitely a loser compared to Clie (except for the 20g weight differnce and slightly larger form factor), now many people have seen the amaing screen and have learned that the Clie width is actually much narrower than M505, the proud M505 owners are whining about the thickness and weight? And that is the only valuable thing left for M505?

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:31:42 PM

Oops, the important parameters should be width and "thickness", not height.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:33:03 PM

I think the biggest loser of all is the person who computed all that. Do you plan to keep your Clie in your pocket protector?

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:50:04 PM

I have Clie N710C here with me, it fits into shirt pocket well. Have you seen the Clie with your own eyes and hold it with your own palm actually?

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 10:02:11 PM

I would love to see someone put a couple of 3 by 5 index cards in their shirt pocket, I can barely understand putting a m505 in, even if it does fit. Putting a Clie in your shirt pocket (as I have seen the size at a OD with a demo unit) would be the epitome of dorkiness.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 11:47:14 PM

>I think the biggest loser of all is the person who computed all that. Do you plan to keep your Clie in your pocket protector?<

He was just giving facts to support his claims of the CLie's size not speculations like everyone else

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 10:15:08 AM

Who ever calculated that is WRONG "thickness for Clie is 1.68 in thickness for M505 is 1.27 in" My m505 is only .5 IN thick!!! the m505 is not over 1 and a quarter inches!!!

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 12:26:16 PM

That would be 1.27 cm
0.5 inches x 2.54 cm/inch = 1.27 inches


RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 12:27:55 PM

Now I've done it:
0.5 inches x 2.54 cm/inch = 1.27 cm

Sorry

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 1:19:57 PM

why don't you guys just wait and hold both of them in your palm and then determine instead of doing all these silly calculations.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 3:09:27 PM

Geezus Christmas, children, GET A LIFE.

If you're so insecure that you have to trash other peoples' choices to justify your own, I pity you.

(And as for the "PPC win" comment, under 10% markeshare is winning? Must have made that calculation on an original Pentium. :-)

(Now see, you've lowered me to your level.. :-)

Biggest losers
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 2:06:45 AM

>I think the biggest loser of all is the person who computed all that. Do you plan to keep your Clie in your pocket protector?<

Actually, I believe the biggest losers are all those people that are calling the Clie "too big to carry around", the Clie "is as big as am iPAQ" and "the Clie is twice as thick as the m505". These are obviously not true. I think the motives behind people who post these comments feels so threaten by the Clie because it's better than their m505.

Come-on people, it's a handheld!! I understand if you are posting a legitimate complaint, but purposely making false statements just because there's a better product?!?!? That's the definition of a loser!!

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 10:22:53 AM

Actually, you have it backwards. People did nothing but bash the m505 for its dim screen, and hyped up the Clie to unrealistic expectations.

Now that the Clie is out, and people can compare them, the m505 holds its own against the Clie. Unless you want a brick sized MP3 player included, that is.

It is the Clie owners who now feel they have to justify their purchases, and will lash out against anyone who has something good to say about the m505.

Don't even start with the "its got a 320x320 screen..." arguement. Palm will integrate a high rez scrren into its future offerings when it feels that the processor can handle the higher resolution without slowing the hanheld down to a crawl. Plus they will give us high resolution AND 16 bit color in the future.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 12:27:12 PM

>Don't even start with the "its got a 320x320
>screen..." arguement. Palm will integrate a high rez
>scrren into its future offerings when it feels that
>the processor can handle the higher resolution
>without slowing the hanheld down to a crawl. Plus
>they will give us high resolution AND 16 bit color in
>the future.

Actually, YOU are really searching....

The majority of the feedback from actual Clie N710C owners have been positive as are the reviews from creditable from major tech. news sources. So there's no need to justify the Clie.

There is, however, a need to justify why the hell did someone pay $450 for an m505, while for $50 more they could've gottenso much more.

Oh, by the way...the Clie has a hardware video accelerator that speeds the 320x320 resolution up. From people who have tested the Clie, they obtain a benchmark of 207%!!! That's the speed of a visor platinum. The benchmark of the m505 was benchmarked at around 150%. So not only does the Clie have 320x320 resolution, it's actually faster than the m505.

And...speaking of the new processor...did you read that the new ARM processor will have built-in memory stick compatibilty?

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 3:26:05 PM

It is definitely not a legitimate comparison to benchmark 2 PDA's running different versions of the same OS. Clie=3.52 m505=4.0. Visor-3.5+

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 4:09:35 PM


So you mean 4.0 is slower than 3.5?

Correction: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 4:16:37 PM

Oops, that should be 1.27 cm for m505 thickness and 1.68 cm for Clie thickness. Sorry about the mistake!!

A benchmark is a benchmark
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 1:01:15 PM

>It is definitely not a legitimate comparison to >benchmark 2 PDA's running different versions of the >same OS. Clie=3.52 m505=4.0. Visor-3.5+

What difference does that make? Since it is the same OS but different versions, the benchmark 2.0 is compatible, that's all that matters. If look at the relative speed data on the benchmark, it listed both machines running Palm OS 3.2 and 3.5, aren't those different version of the same OS?


Reply to this

Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 12:36:06 PM

I’ve looked at all these pics of the Ipaq, Clie and M505 screen quality. I like all three machines if you could believe that but, I was willing to sacrifice some features for the reason that I value size the most…Said that, I need help to understand Why isn’t possible to have a contrast setting on the m505? Since it seams that the Ipaq and the Clie have similar types of screens???(Lit the same way so, it seams to me)

Can some one help me to have a better understanding how the clie or I paq were able to accomplish this and not palm…?

Thank you
730…=O)~


RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 1:16:59 PM

Great Question:
I too would like to know the answer Ed can you help with this one?Thanx


RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 2:41:53 PM

This was done on purpose in order to optimize battery life and the color screen.

If users were able to adjust the brightness, then the battery life would suffer and folks would be unhappy with the results.

RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:40:16 PM

Do you actually believe what you are talking about yourself? "If there is a button for brightness, then the battery life will be shorter", you think people are idiot, they don't know how to turn the brightness down when there are enough lights? This is ridiculous!!

RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:57:48 PM

I would have to agree!
That was a pretty dumb statement.
That the consumers meaning us would not be smart enough to know when to turn off the contrast button which would shorten battery life and palm based there decision on that.
Good one lets hear another.
I need a laugh.


RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 10:02:58 AM

To answer your question, yes I believe in what I am talking about.

Let me answer your question with a question. Why do you think there is no contrast option? Do you think it was an oversight on Palm's part? Do you really think Palm "forgot" to put in an option which has been in all the other palms before this one? I don't think so.
So if they didn't forget, and they didn't include it, the answer that best fits the situation is they set it for the optimal combination of battery life and screen brightness.

If you disagree with me, why not ask Palm? I'm sure by now they have received calls from folks asking how to adjust the contrast.

RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 11:31:14 AM

Let me use a question to answer your question too. What will you explain if Palm put a brightness control in the next verson of m505? "Oh!!! Palm listens to the customer?"

I have dropped by Frys many times to look at different PDAs, everytime when people looked at m505, most of them tried to find the brightness control to see if they could make it brighter.

If Palm decided not to include the brightness adjustment because of the reason you mentioned, I guess that is a big mistake!!

RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 1:56:17 PM

I will have to agree with the comments above you do have some valid points. Re: reasons that m505 did not come with a contrast button but if some third party app would come out to be able to change the setting of brightness-if this is at all possible he or she would make Bank! I would purchase it! In a heart beat.

RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 2:03:07 PM

"What will you explain if Palm put a brightness control in the next verson of m505? "Oh!!! Palm listens to the customer?""

The next version of the m505 may very well have a contrast control. It may also have a soft graffiti screen, 320x320 resolution and/or a better battery. And yes it would be due to customer demand. These are all hardware changes and some or all will probably be included in upcoming models. I don't think you will be seeing a contrast button in the current OS however.

RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 2:20:21 AM

IF there's a next version of the m505!!! Palm is sinking fast. They are "re-thinking" their strategy. They might pull out of the high-end market and focus on the low-end m100's.

RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 9:51:26 AM

Rather than letting us just speculate about Palm's reasoning, someone from Palm should step forward and explain the choices that they made with the M505. I have seen some very good posts from Handera explaining the design tradeoffs they made on their new model (color vs. black and white, etc.). In the absence of any statement from Palm we can only assume they think we're too dumb to handle a brightness control.

RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 4:04:16 PM

I guess it is due to the energy crisis!! So user can not adjust the brightness to drain power fast!!

Great idea, now the federal government should order all the lamp manufacturer to make a fix lamp so that the energy deficiency can be alleviated!


Reply to this

Size
Posted by: Volcano @ 5/27/2001 1:58:08 PM

I have had my M505 for 3 weeks now and use it for many houre everyday. I am a Operations Mgr. for PepsiCo and have many contacts, direct reporte, to do lists, e-mail, word docs, spreadsheets etc. that I must have at my finger tips instantly. The 505 packs it all. Every time I take it out of my pocket, I am still amazed by the size (absoulutly small). I had heard a lot about the sub-par screen and got caught up in the "hysteria" and actually went back to BEST BUY to trade it cor an IPAQ but the IPAQ was too big, the software too "awkward" and actually the M505 screen was to-me sharper under many more light conditions w/o fumbling w/contrast controls. I kept my 505 and I am still impressed w/it everyday!
RE: Size
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 2:52:23 PM

I totally agree; morningstar1844@hotmail.com
For the size you cannot beat it!


Volcano, Pepsi & Palmtop-pro
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 4:38:30 PM

Hi Volcano!

We are the premium mobile computing hardcopy magazine in Europe and would love to print your impression as manager at pepsico on the m505.

Please contact me directly:
Boris Michael von Luhovoy
publishing editor
Palmtop-pro magazine

bmv.luhovoy@nextra.at

for more information on us please visit:
www.palmtop-pro.com/index1.htm

(sorry folks - german only)

Please see also our story on the polarstern icebreaker & palm on:
www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=1923


RE: Size
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 3:11:42 PM

But why discuss the admittedly cool m505 in a Clie topic?

As for Pepsi, could you PLEASE do something to make Diet Pepsi not taste so crappy? I hate it when restaurants give the "no coke, pepsi" line. :-)

RE: M505
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 4:22:49 PM

Because M505 owners are having a hard time right now. They have to keep justifying their M505 purchase to themselves. I think the more choices we have the better. But some M505 owners keep trolling any Clie' article with disparaging remarks about a PDA that most have never seen in real life.

Nobody wins with less choices, we all lose.


Reply to this

Size
Posted by: seaaa @ 5/27/2001 3:14:11 PM

I agree with you Vol. my M505 is great. When ever I use it at work (constantly) it gets "oos and ahhs", awesome size, incredible expandbility ans color. I take it absoulutly every where, hiking, workouts, shopping and forget it's there. My brother works for Micro soft and they all have IPAQs, I beat him hands down pulling up basic applications faster while his IPAQ gets hung up on programs he accidently hit etc. Also he often does'nt have his IPAQ ("Too big to lug around!").
Reply to this

battery life?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 4:11:38 PM

Who knows the battery life of these three devices: Ipaq, clie710c and 505? Now I am more concerning about this rather than the size and screen quality. Different people have different preferences, for meI prefer a smaller size device, although I envy the screen quality of the clie. Yes I am a proud m505 owner.


RE: battery life?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 4:51:37 PM

Don't envy the screen of the Clie, you can only look at it for about 2-3 hours a charge running applications. It's not worth the bulkiness, the 256-color display, and they low battery life. Go with the m505, it treats you right.


RE: battery life?(Clie N700C and m505)
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 5:11:06 PM

As a author of BatteryBench, I tested both devices
(CLIE is japanese model N700C)

I tested both in normal mode of BatteryBench( it runs 1 second
and only display for 9 seconds)

N700C
backlight off : 16 hours
backlight minimum: 10 hours
backlight maximum: 6 hours

m505
backlight off : 15 hours
backlight on : 6.5 hours

FYI
m100: 40 hours
HandEra 330: 36 hours


YAMADA Tatsushi
Hacker dude-san
http://simple-palm.com


RE: battery life?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:46:14 PM

"It can only last 2-3 hours",

that is with playing mp3 and front light on. without front light, it last 11 hours for playing MP3. I think for normal usage, it should be even longer.

RE: battery life?
Posted by: JET8810 @ 5/27/2001 9:31:25 PM

wow...the handera gets 36 hours of battery life?!?!?! Is that just looking up adresses or games...also, using a cf modem and keyboard would drain the battery much.,..quicker...right?

RE: battery life?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 10:47:29 PM

> HE330, 36 hours with CF modem?

No, but you can plug the 330 into the wall and run it for as long as you like.

Bob


RE: battery life?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 2:43:30 AM

Clie lasts only 2 - 3 hours?
Another misinformed idiot making unfounded comments.
The clie can last as long as the m505, my dear friends.
I have used both, tried both.
Unless you play MP3 with the screen on, it will drain in 3 hours, else typical usage will last you at least one week. (1 hour a day on average)

RE: battery life?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 2:10:48 AM

Obviously you are another idiot who doesn't read people's comments in full. Why not scroll up and read again what he wrote?

RE: battery life!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 3:52:57 AM

After conducting real world tests we found that the battery life of a Palm is much longer as in any statistic.

The test results shown above are most probably conducted in a continuous mode e.g. running a program and measuring continuos until the battery is exhausted.
This puts on a battery an artificial (not a real world) drain. Thought there is no other standard to measure it has to be seen what ist is: As very rough comparing tool somehow probably ok or not (depends how you look at the data), it shows something but holds no water in real use as it reflects not the day to day PDA life.

Anyhow – the test as conducted here has probably some meaning, as there is no other known proper way to measure – even thought this does not reflect the real world performance.

In real world you flip the Palm open, look up your data and close down. This gives the battery the ability to recreate and gain when in off mode.

Our (out of the stomach and not 100% replicable) tests have shown, that the M500 runs up to about 21 hours in real world with light of – But that’s something widely depending on the individual users individual behaviour. So it is safe to say that the Palm has not only a very good real world performance but a superior one.

Like a RollsRoyce vendor answers a question to the horsepower of a Silvercloud with a disgusted but conclusive:

Enough power in any situation ... Sir'

Boris
Palmtop-pro Magazine
publishing editor
www.palmtop-pro.com


Reply to this

16bit M505 vs 8bit Clie
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 9:50:39 PM

I think people who compare these two don't realize there ain't much difference to the naked eye. As ED have reviewed, he cannot tell the difference from a 256 color picture and one of 16bit color. Maybe this is due to the cloudyness that some m505 owners have reported.

Some other people believe that having 16bit color will achieve better pictures. But if you think about it, 256 color does produce color banding, but it is at a much higher resolution (320x320). While m505 has 16bit colors, yet the pixelation of the machine will cause some color banding. In turn, they will both achieve the same colors, but the one with higher resolution will give better details and sharper image.

However m505 is still a great machine given the size of it with a built in expansion slot. If size is what you need, go for a m505, but if you want something new and innovative, with a great screen, get the clie.

Lastly, some has compared the iPaq with the new clie. I say the only comparison that you can really do is the screen itself. I've seen the pictures of the 3 machines and I say Clie has the best of the bunch. and best of all, its PalmOS. Now all i need is a place close to Canada so that I can drive down to get myself a Clie.

RE: 16bit M505 vs 8bit Clie
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 12:13:38 AM

Excellent point. I have a Clie and a Prism, I have to say even my Prism has 16 bit color, the resolution kills it. The Clie's 4 times higher resolution magnifies the visual effect. Now I suspect Palm and Handspring will push similar product given the overhelmingly good reputation of the Clie N-710C. Lets wait and see.


RE: 16bit M505 vs 8bit Clie
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 10:50:52 AM

Don't let the pictures fool you. The color on the Clie was not as intense as expected. Some have said that the colors on the m505 look milky. Having held the Clie in my hand, the colors are also "milky" and washed out. They are sharper though. Sharper is good. Washed out is not.

RE: 16bit M505 vs 8bit Clie
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 11:26:18 AM

Compared with Prism, the color of Clie is washed out, compared with, m505 color is also washed out (and because of the frontlight of m505 is not adjustable and very dim, the color looks more washed out than Clie, however, the m505 has more color but very dull).


Reply to this

VII
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 11:23:52 PM

can someone tell me if i can use AOL instant messenger on a VIIx. thanx


RE: VII
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 12:28:25 AM

i guess


RE: VII
Posted by: bcombee @ 5/28/2001 4:16:13 AM

There is a gateway PQA to send AOL IMs to other users, but you cannot receive instant messages, since the Palm VII/VIIx is not constantly connected -- it only gets data when you explicitly make a request.

RE: VII
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 11:28:21 AM

but couldnt you make a request constantly say like once every 5 seconds

RE: VII
Posted by: bcombee @ 5/29/2001 12:45:56 AM

Turn around time for a single request tends to be five to ten seconds. Having the device continually poll the server would run down the transmitter antenna in a few minutes, and drain the AAA's after an hour or so of usage.

Its just not feasible until a push-capable Palm, like the rumored m700, is available.


Reply to this

"Backlist" Graffiti area?
Posted by: jasonheyd @ 5/28/2001 9:34:42 AM


Anyone know if the Graffiti area of the N710C is backlist, as it is with the m505?


RE: "Backlit" Graffiti area ..
Posted by: jasonheyd @ 5/28/2001 9:36:12 AM


Meant "backLIT" not "list". :)


RE: Backlit
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 10:11:22 AM

No, at least the 700 is not. My guess the 710 is the same way.

RE:
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 10:16:27 AM

nope

RE:
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 11:23:49 AM

The four blocks (HOME, MENU, CALCULATOR, FIND) are backlit, the Graffitti area is not.

RE:
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 12:09:40 PM

>>The four blocks (HOME, MENU, CALCULATOR, FIND) are backlit, the Graffitti area is not.<<

Just as good!!

RE:
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 3:55:10 PM

Actually the graffitti area is lit a little since the front light sits underneath the top of the Graffitti area,
and the light can go to the top of the Graffitti area.

RE: Backlit graffiti area - NO, not on my US model
Posted by: PalmZealot @ 5/30/2001 2:00:37 PM

I just bought a Sony Clié N710C at Fry's last night. I had to charge it first to try it out - not like the HP Jornada 547 I bought last week (the HP 547 came with a Stowaway Keyboard, UBS cradle and 32MBRam for $399 - hand to try it - Ugh - S L O W . . . .).

I tried the Sony Clié N710C in the dark to see if the graffiti area was indeed lit, but is was NOT, and neither were the Home, Menu, Find or Calc areas. I found it impossible to write on the graffiti area in the darkness of the room while the mighty glow of the screen blinded me. Trying to find the "Brightness" button on the graffiti area was impossible too because it wasn't lit either.

While screen is bright, and sharp, but appears muddy and grey because of the bad CONTRAST setting. Too bad its not like the PPC's out on the market - like the HP 547 I bought last week - it of course has both Contrast and Brightness settings - something ANY color device SHOULD have. Your COLOR TV at home has a Contrast and Brightness adjustment, why not on these Palm OS handhelds????

Also point real quick if I may, the Sony Clié N710C is noticibly heavier than the other Palm PDA (minus the Prism of course), and if people are going to compare the m505 and the N710C, they should take into consideration the size of the two devices.

Its stands to reason that if the m505 had AS BIG a battery that the N710C uses, that the m505 would be AS BRIGHT and the battery life would last AS LONG as the Sony Clié N710C. Of course though, that would make the m505 AS BIG as the N710C, so what would be the point of having an m505 THAT BIG???? The m505 would loose its small sleak design. So that's the trade off.

After testing out the Sony Clié N710C, I have decided that I will be returning the Sony Clié N710C (like I did the HP 547). The Sony Clié N710C to me isn't worth the $537 (incld tax) I paid for it.


Reply to this

New Clie
Posted by: Dave @ 5/28/2001 12:37:54 PM

Few comments-
Sceen is pretty bright/colors little murky
Battery life in real testing doesn't last as long as m505
It is a thick machine, doesn't have the same pocketability factor.
To store songs on it, you need memory stick, which are very expensive.
Graffiti area does not glow.
Stick with your m505, it'll treat you right.
RE: New Clie
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 12:42:49 PM

another misinformed commenter


RE: New Clie
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 1:17:42 PM

how come everyone said memory stick is expensive. I found 64Mb for $78, how much is 64Mb of SD card anyway?

RE: New Clie
Posted by: twizza @ 5/28/2001 2:06:34 PM

i have seen the sd cards at expensive stores such as circuit city and best buy go for around $50-$55. the MMC versions go for about $15 less that that.

as for the price that u quoted. where was that. i have not see a 64mb mem stick for less that $80-$85.

RE: New Clie
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 2:31:50 PM

$50 for a 64Mb SD card? i don't think so. you said Circuit city, best buy... so there are no proves because but here is my prove of price for memory card, $78 for 64Mb
http://www.moreaudiovideo.com/Shopping/ItemList.cfm?ItemID=238

and $78.99 for 64Mb at
http://www.etronics.com/product.asp?stk_code=sonmsa64a&svbname=31

and $82 for 64Mb at ecost.com

please show me some place where they sell 64Mb of SD card for $50, please get real, don't post any message if you have nothing to back you up with

RE: New Clie
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 8:40:49 PM

Holly Cow!
Thats pretty cheap! $78.00 for a 64MB Mem stick.

I done know why i've been trying so hard to get one off Ebay !

New Clie will be the m505 killer!!!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 2:30:31 AM

OK, so the clie is only slighly bigger than the m505, and that the Clie uses only 8-bit color, and that the Clie uses memory sticks. So what?!?!

I don't understand why people are so fixated on these minor details.

Let's talk about the major details:
1. increase resolution 320x320
2. no grid-lines
3. built-in multi-media/MP3 support
4. jog-dail for easy navigation with a back button
5. adjustable screen contrast/brightness
6. better smoother text
7. brighter, whiter screen
8. longer battery life
9. 8 MB internal RAM, 4MB flash ROM, and 8MB memory stick included
10. travel charger included

The Clie has ALL the above while the m505 lacks them, and in my opinion, the features listed above most than justify fewer colors and a 0.16" thickness.

By the way, the color depth in the m505 is useless because of the dim screen.

New Clie will be the m505 killer!!!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 2:30:31 AM

OK, so the clie is only slighly bigger than the m505, and that the Clie uses only 8-bit color, and that the Clie uses memory sticks. So what?!?!

I don't understand why people are so fixated on these minor details.

Let's talk about the major details:
1. increase resolution 320x320
2. no grid-lines
3. built-in multi-media/MP3 support
4. jog-dail for easy navigation with a back button
5. adjustable screen contrast/brightness
6. better smoother text
7. brighter, whiter screen
8. longer battery life
9. 8 MB internal RAM, 4MB flash ROM, and 8MB memory stick included
10. travel charger included

The Clie has ALL the above while the m505 lacks them, and in my opinion, the features listed above most than justify fewer colors and a 0.16" thickness.

By the way, the color depth in the m505 is useless because of the dim screen.


Reply to this

Sony doesn't expect it to sell
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 1:16:53 PM

Look at the advertising. They spent millions to advertise the playstation 2 (before it came out), advertise their wega tv's, and their Vaio laptops. They haven't spent a dime advertising it. If the parent company doesn't care enough, why should we? Even if the Clie is the greatest handheld ever, if the parent company doesn't care the general public shouldn't either.


They are starting to advertise
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 4:07:57 PM

Actually I just saw the first ad on Friday.

It’s on the back cover of the June 1, 2001 Entertainment Weekly – not exactly a geek magazine.

They say it’s business tool because it runs the Palm OS. And it has entertainment features-it plays MP3’s and video clips.

I’m looking forward to getting my hands on one. –Just like a lot of other people.

I also hope that Sony can bring some add-on accessories to market soon too: wireless modem, folding keyboard, memory sticks with applications, etc.


RE: Sony doesn't expect it to sell
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 12:48:01 AM

My there are a lot of irrational people posting here with "Sony Envy".... The CLIE has sold out on the west coast in one weekend... hey Sony haters, my Mem Stick is bigger than your SD card!!

*arrogant chuckles*

RE: Sony doesn't expect it to sell
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 1:09:25 AM

You're an idiot!!

Did Palm advertise the m505 or m500 much?

Did Handspring advertise their products much?

I don't understand people like you, you post these ridiculous comments trying to trash a very good handheld. What's the matter? Did the Sony make your m505 look like crap? Are you afraid that Palm is going to get their butt kicked by SONY, HandEra, and Handspring?

RE: Sony doesn't expect it to sell
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 9:42:00 PM

Ummmm,
perhaps its not advertized because there are NONE TO BUY!!!!!
Cali is SOLD OUT.
REST of the country has yet to get it.

Lets advertize so frustated masses can go to their local retailer just to be disapointed!!!!

What an idiot.

RE: Sony doesn't expect it to sell
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 12:26:48 PM

Hey Sony/M505 fighters, my CF card has more memory than your memory sticks and SD cards combined.....

(not withstandng the fact that i can still use an SD card on top of that)...

ah, expandability....gotto love it

Handera330 user


Reply to this

Why is that?
Posted by: David Ross @ 5/28/2001 2:04:10 PM

Why is everyone fighting for their handheld? Just use the one you like and leave us alone!
RE: Why is that?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 4:27:54 PM

Because M505 owners are having a hard time right now. They have to keep justifying their M505 purchase to themselves. I think the more choices we have the better. But some M505 owners keep trolling any Clie' article with disparaging remarks about a PDA that most have never seen in real life.

Nobody wins with less choices, we all lose.

RE: Why is that?
Posted by: Gepeto @ 5/28/2001 5:32:33 PM

(David Ross = my Real name when I post from my Palm)
Exactly, but only to some extent. As long as most applications stay compatible with every device, I think the more choice the better. If people start to do Hi-res only applications, that's something else. And I think M505 may be right about the small size of it, but the CLIÉ is NOT a monster, it might be a bit bigger but some people like me don't care, we just want a bright screen with lots of pixels :)

David Ross
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 8:20:32 PM

David Ross? Are you David Ross from MacAddict?

RE: David Ross
Posted by: Gepeto @ 5/28/2001 9:17:25 PM

In fact I'm a student near Montreal. I'd love to have a brand new mac though :P


Reply to this

Clie low color count
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 5:09:11 PM

Somebody posted that the m505 has more possible colors that maximum pixels. I don't think he realizes that most people want this. The Clie with it's 256 color display, has only one different color for every 400 pixels if you fill up the screen evenly with all the colors. Do the math:
320x320=102400 pixels
/256 colors
400 pixels per color.
Now, that's not a very attractive number, is it?


RE: Clie low color count
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 5:29:35 PM

just look at the screen when you can get a hand on one, trust me the screen is much better than the m505, no question about it. No need for all these calculations. Just wait


RE: Clie low color count
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 11:01:37 PM

m505 has 16 bit color, but it looks like there are many layers of screen protector on the screen to dull the color.

RE: Clie low color count
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 2:19:51 AM

Why in the world would we want so much colours? It's a PDA after all, not some video player or photo album. These are just some extra sweet features, and ultimately, I think the higher resolution is more important in the long run.

RE: Clie low color count
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 4:04:12 AM

Here's some more math for you.

A 160x160, 16-bit color device has 25600 pixels and a range of 65536 colors. What do you need all those colors for?

An 8-bit color image, IF DITHERED WELL, can come very close to the quality of a 16-bit image in most cases.

Also, it was not too long ago that we were all playing 320x240 (or 320x200) DOS games in 8-bit VGA. (Kind of puts things in perspective, hm?) I never had any complaints about using a 256 color palette!


Reply to this

SIZE and the STICK
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 6:50:20 PM

It is nice too see that finally a bunch of us geeks finally realize that SIZE DOES MATTER !!

BTW - gotta stay away from memory stick - don't need a box of those to go with my beta machine. Long live CF - usable by more than Sony.

RE: SIZE and the STICK
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 7:24:54 PM

Sony and who else?

Could it be?!

Motorola for those following recent news.

RE: SIZE and the STICK
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 11:11:30 PM

Yeah good call... If Motorola makes the next Dragonball with memory stick support, I see a new standard for the PalmOS. And the next Clie will be sweet too!


Reply to this

RE: battery life
Posted by: Altema @ 5/28/2001 9:09:11 PM

Actually, the advertised battery life for the Sony is is 7.5 hours, The advertised battery life for the Palm M505 is 10.25 hours with mixed sidelight usage. With the sidelight on constantly, the time appears to be between 7 and 9 hours, so you can probably expect about 12 hours if you avoid the using the light at all, which is a flourescent display and should never burn out. Although neither one compares favorably with the III series (the IIIc will do up to 16 hours, IIIxe up to 30 hours), you have to consider the form factor of the M505 (smallest color device in the world), and the extra drain of the audio output on the Sony. What concerns me though, is that Palm OS users are beginning to bash Palm OS users. What gives? Both devices have their strong points and unique features. That's a good thing: we can pick our preferences and be a happy camper, and that does not mean we have to put down everyone else who may have different needs. The Pocket PC cannot gain the ground they want on Palm OS devices, even by giving away Desktop software, giving bribes to Palm supporters, and putting out full page cheap shots. However, Microsoft would love for this infighting to blow up, just so they can something more than their toenail in the PDA market. Open discussion on Palm OS device preferences is great, and the diversity will only make the Palm OS world stronger, but let's keep it civil.
RE: RE: battery life
Posted by: twizza @ 5/29/2001 12:08:03 AM

nicely said.


RE: RE: battery life
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 1:22:30 AM

Yes, I agree with you. I'm just irritated at all the people who are just posting wrong information about the Clie. I really wish people would stop, it's childish and unproductive.

But civility is no fun!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 8:24:36 AM

nt

RE: RE: battery life
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 10:16:43 AM

Debating the relative merits is useful. Ego-driven name calling is a waste of time. I'm pleased with my M505, but I'm glad there's another choice for those with different priorities.

RE: RE: battery life
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 11:10:32 AM

7 ~ 9 hours with sidelight on for M505?
I did a test as soon as I got my 505.
I use AOCtrlDA to keep my 505 on, with the sidelight on, it can only last for 5:49 (just idle, no any program running). If I kept the sidelight off, the battery life was 13:24. Both of them were measured by Runtime.

Is it normal? Can anybody tell me your battery life?

RE: RE: battery life
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 9:49:59 PM

Yeah why are we Palm OS people fighting?

Theres an Ipaq neard over there in the corner. Hes mumbling some Ram/Rom/bits sampling/ geekspeak.

Lets all go after HIM. :)


Reply to this

[ No Subject ]
Posted by: anonymous @ 5/29/2001 6:33:51 AM

Can the 710 actually play movies fluently? Or is this nothing more than an interesting demo of a still unrefined idea? It sounds too cool to be true!
RE: [ No Subject ]
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 4:24:59 PM

Unfortunatly no (but the audio is good). I am not if it is the software problem though!



Reply to this

RE: battery life
Posted by: Altema @ 5/29/2001 9:41:21 AM

Boris, you are right that these are not real world tests, they are indeed constant drain tests. Nobody uses their Palm that way. The only real-world numbers were for the III series of which I've had five. I have seen battery life testing manipulated in pretty extreme ways. One non-Palm organizer claimed to have a battery life of 180 hours continous! Reading the fine print, it turns out that the device was tested in a mode where there the screen was on, with no back light and no processing. Perhaps we could take a moment and standardize the tests. 30 minutes a day in a game demo mode, or something with the processor actually doing something?

Paul Campbell,
Telecommunications Network Engineer

RE: RE: battery life
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 1:00:51 PM

No bad idea at all.

But real life is even different from that.

We should consider once a day to:

Look up 20 addresses
Synchronise wireless to avantgo a given channel amount
Read email 15 minutes
Writing text for 20 minutes

Looks good in theory - but who has the time to do this for a prolonged time?

I would say - lets get on with life and accept the fact that the Palm 50x is a pretty good machine with a acceptable screen and enough battery life to make you comfortable in normal conditions - and let the fine details to the non-power user who crawl even in the last bit.

(Thought for expeditions which are away a prolonged period from their homebase like the one on:
www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=1923
We propose always battery driven Palms / Symbols / HandEra or battery emergency loader)

A power user is the one making the most of his machine by working with it every day and gaining benefit in being more productive or / and have simple good fun

- and not the one disassembling his Ferrari by the day (as only a freak does)
- changing oil and measuring the gas with a stick to calculate the consume

These chaps are avoiding driving around as the tires could get wet.

If the majority of users would more focus on real life problems (the proper software / solutions)and not trying to measure what’s not worth to measure as long at is basically ok- we would have a lot less useless flames and stress.

That’s the way I see it

Boris
www.palmtop-pro.com
--


Another theme: The chaps biting the nickel on this forum (on unimportant theoretical academic arguments) overlook that the product itself is not the mayor cost involved – if you choose the wrong tool (and thats the software) for your work means that you have to spend incredible time and effort later on.


Reply to this

This is REALLY sad
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 9:56:55 AM

I'm reading these post because I need a Palm and NONE of them are the perfect PDA for me. EVERY Palm I've looked at from EVERY manufacturer has some flaw. Handsprings are too big (the Edge is too expensive for being b/w). The Palm m505 screen isn't worth the $. The Clie has no wireless capability, and none planned for the immediate future. It's also NOT Mac compatible even though its USB. The Handera is cool, but again b/w screen and no wireless capability. The Kyocera is nice, but no Mac compatibility, and with the Samsung i300 months away, $500 is alot for a b/w screen. Even with all these visible flaws (give the high price of the "high end" models there is NO reason any of you should be quibbling that one model is better than another. Each has a stong point AND a weak point. In reality, there is very little that a m500 or a Clie can do that an M100 can't do. If you want to watch a movie on your PDA, go ahead. I need to get real productivity and performance for the $ out of whatever PDA I get. If I want to watch a movie I've got a DVD player in my laptop.


Get the m100 if you are cheap, get the m505 if you are not.
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 11:17:28 AM

This isn't rocket science.


RE: This is REALLY sad
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 12:08:41 PM

The Clie is compatible with a USB Macintosh if you get the Markspace (www.markspace.com) Clie Macpak. I use this on my Clie 300 and my brother uses it on his 710 he picked up Saturday at Frys San Diego. Cost is around $30.00.

PS-Sony actually will tell you to buy the Markspace software if you want to use a Clie on a MAC.

It's NOT about being cheap!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 2:08:24 PM

The point is everyone here is bickering over which PDA is the balls out best when NONE of the them are. They ALL have there weak points. I'm not buying ANY Palm now. I'm not alone here. Palm is on hard times because ONLY ubergeeks will tolerate their unimpressive line of PDAs. Give me a M505 with a hi-rez bright color screen, wireless capability to get MY email (not just palm.net), out of the box compatibility with Windows and Mac, add in a few whiz bang features like MP3 and then you might have a PDA worth of $450. Until then its all junk.

You are asking for features that you really don't need.
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 3:35:28 PM

nt

RE: This is REALLY sad
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 10:00:03 PM

Yeah why are we Palm OS people fighting?

Theres an Ipaq neard over there in the corner. He's mumbling some Ram/Rom/bits sampling/ geekspeak.

Lets all go after HIM. :)


RE: This is REALLY sad
Posted by: Chromosome @ 5/30/2001 1:24:11 PM

I love my m505--it's a better fit for my needs than the Sony. I also give a nod to Sony for developing the memory stick (SD/MMC) technology that Palm incorperated into the m50x. Most importantly, thanks to the Clie enthusiasts who developed the software (MSMount, McFile, and PowerRun) that really made the MMC work. It was even a Clie enthusiast who wrote a thread to walk us all through using these progerams last month! For those Clie lovers-enjoy your powerful new device! Functionally superior to my m505 but a little bigger. I respect you and appreciate you. Remember the words of Rodney King.. ;)

Chromosome

RE: This is REALLY sad
Posted by: CarlJ @ 5/30/2001 2:09:41 PM

I agree -- I love my new Clie; it's a better fit for my needs than the m505. I really like the m505 as well, but I am among those disappointed by the screen brightness. If the m505 screen works well for others (or perhaps you received units better/brighter than the demo models I saw), well, hey, that's cool, too.

As far as size goes, from my perspective it was, "hey, cool, the Clie is smaller than my IIIx", rather than, "gack, the Clie is bigger than a Vx". Sure, I'd love to have a Clie screen/backlight in an m505 body, but then I also want a 400mhz StrongARM, 32mb memory, flat-rate wireless Internet connectivity, and OS5... don't we all? :-)

It seems everyone is also arguing the relative merits of MemStick vs. SD/MMC vs. CF... (okay, well, granted, CF wins hands down on IO device support at this point, but you just can't build a CF-sized slot into a m505-sized handheld right now). But I see this as mostly a non-issue at this point, if you use the slot for external memory, and aren't buying / dragging around handfuls of the cards... I'm delighted by how transparently software that uses Palm's VFS API works between the two -- all the Clie MSMount-style software works on the m50x, and things advertised as supporting SD/MMC, like Palm's PalmReader (née PeanutReader), work just fine on my Clie/MemStick.

I'm looking forward to more programs supporting VFS, so you can, for example, keep a 100k dictionary app in main memory that reads from a 10mb database on a MS/SD/MMC/CF card. I'd love to see more document readers be able to directly read documents off the card (like PalmReader), without the use of MSMount or tricks to temporarily copy databases to RAM.


Reply to this

Call/Email Sonystyle and ask why pre-orders weren't shipped!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 2:52:36 PM

orderhelp@sonystyle.com

888-900-9872

Let them know they shouldn't treat their customers
this way. Ask why retails stores are selling them
when their pre-orders (with an announced ship date
of the 28th!!!) are still not shipping!


RE: Call/Email Sonystyle and ask why pre-orders weren't shipped!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 4:27:20 PM

If I recall correctly, Palm did the same thing for m505 (correct me if I am wrong).


RE: Call/Email Sonystyle and ask why pre-orders weren't shipped!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 5:59:36 PM

Does anyone know when will they start shipping the pre-orders?

RE: Call/Email Sonystyle and ask why pre-orders weren't shipped!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 9:37:11 PM

yeah - after everyone else gets theirs at retail.

Call them / Email them - let them know they shouldn't
treat their customers this way.

RE: Call/Email Sonystyle and ask why pre-orders weren't shipped!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 1:00:35 PM

Did you call Palm telling them that they shouldn't do that either?

RE: Call/Email Sonystyle and ask why pre-orders weren't shipped!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 4:42:27 PM

yes.

a pox on both their houses!
and on Staples too, for a $20 pre-order fee
that got you nothing.


Reply to this

Choices
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 4:35:26 AM

I am new to the world of PDA's following a IIIXE for Xmas last year. Like many of the commentators here, I quickly became an avid fan and tossed my self-printed paper planner. I am now trying to figure out which PDA to upgrade to. I need "power organizing" but I also appreciate "quality distractions" to fill the space between connecting flights. I do not however need to watch DVD's or view professional photographs on my PDA. Despite the critcism regarding the backlight, I was leaning towards the m505. I am happy for any pointers available for this newcomer and would like to know what other kinds of "plug-ins" are likely to be made available for the m505? Is it possible that a mp3 plug-in could produced in the same manner as PDA cameras? Is there a good site that has an easily digestible "head-to-head" comparison? These may be silly questions but greatful for any info.

Get a USA-Made m505. Use EasyView from PalmGear.com
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 9:04:17 AM

You will love it. Great upgrade from your III.



Reply to this

A wireless modem?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 2:13:52 PM

And when is the Sony Clié going to get a wireless modem? I got the Palm m505 because of Minstrel's support of the Palm platform. They've announced a wireless modem for the Palm m505, what good will the extra resolution be if you can't surf the web with the Clié? No thanks, but I'll take a Palm m505 with a Mistrel m500 and Blazer to surf the web wireless. The Sony Clié is just too limitied for me.


RE: A wireless modem?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 2:49:16 PM

I already have a wireless modem that works great with my Clie' ( as well as all of my Visors, Palms and PPCs). It is called a Nokia 8290 GSM phone. It works with any of my organizers via IR. It works with Palm's Mobile Internet Kit.

I was one of the original beta testers for OmniSky and used them until about three months ago. Bad software, bulky device and sporadic connections finally made me come to my senses. The phone makes a much better wireless modem.

Yeh! Who needs a Wireless modem, NOT ME!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 3:51:52 AM

Exactly what I was thinking,
I have a GSM cell phone with IR, which cost me nothing more than my phone contract, and it doubles as a modem for my PALMs.

RE: A wireless modem?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 10:24:45 AM

To the Wireless GSM phone users... What wireless service can you use the phones with in the U.S.? Sprint, Verizon, Voicestream, or others?
Thanks...
(Have a Palm V now, Still trying to decide between Clie N710C, Palm 505, or maybe, yes, even the iPaq)

RE: A wireless modem?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 11:05:53 AM

I am in San Jose, CA and use Cingular (formerly Pacific Bell).

Sprint Solution
Posted by: dstrauss @ 5/31/2001 2:02:30 PM

I just bought an all-in-one cable from www.thesupplynet.com which connects my Palm Vx to my Samsung 8500 cell phone. I enabled Wireless Web ($10 per month plus using cell minutes vs. $.39 per minute plus using minutes) and it works great for reaching email, but very slow for web surfing (19.2 +/-). You don't even need a dialup internet account, as you can quick connect to the Sprint net. For example, three short (one paragraph) email downloads and a single upload took 52 seconds (under the magic 1 minute useage). Not as seemless as an all-in-one phone, but for $50 for a cable, a lot cheaper.

RE: A wireless modem?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 3:48:53 PM

I don't consider a GSM phone a very simple or efficient solution for wireless access. The Minstrel m500 modem clips right onto the Palm and doesn't use any power from the Palm itself. IR communication for a sustained period will probably drain the battery a little faster. If there were a data cable solution it might be better, but you still have to fumble with two devices and a cable. The Mistrel adds only ounces to the back of the Palm and they clip together. Adding more weight to the Sony Clié would make it the heaviest PDA out there short of a PocketPC or laptop. We need some SIMPLE solutions for wireless access!

RE: A wireless modem?
Posted by: fleegle @ 5/31/2001 11:34:18 PM

"I am in San Jose, CA and use Cingular (formerly Pacific Bell)."

Which plan are you using? Does it use your voice minutes?

RE: A wireless modem?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 6/1/2001 2:03:39 AM

The way that Cingular works in CA is to add on a service called "PCS Data Connect". This is a second number that uses the data line for the phone. This means that it can also receive incoming data calls and faxes. On my phone it just pipes them out over IR if I accept the call.

The plan costs 4.99 per maonth and $.15 per minute of connect time. For me based on the 5 minutes or less per day that I averaged on the OmniSky, I am saving a huge amount of money. In the last four months, it has already paid for the phone. Connection strength is also much stronger than I ever got off of the OmniSky.


Reply to this

N710C at Best Buy!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 3:20:39 PM

For those of us east of Arizona with Fry's envy, I just wanted to let you know that I picked up my N710C at Best Buy this afternoon (5/30), so I would guess they should be all around the US by the end of the week.


RE: N710C at Best Buy!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 4:11:29 PM

Which Best Buy?


RE: N710C at Best Buy!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 5:02:45 PM

In a suburb of Chicago. Sorry for not mentioning the location.

RE: N710C at Best Buy!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 7:00:07 PM

Also in Mich, at the Dearborn Best Buy!

RE: N710C at Best Buy!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 10:36:09 AM

What is Best Buys return policy? I have an m505 that I got from OD and their return was 14 days

RE: N710C at Best Buy!
Posted by: LeshMan @ 5/31/2001 8:27:52 PM

I just went to the Best Buy on North May in Oklahoma City and they got two N710c's: one for demo purposes, and I bought the other one. They also let me trade in my old Palm Vx and get $280 towards the Clie!!!

RE: N710C at Best Buy!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 8:43:20 PM

North Olmsted, Ohio (suburb of Cleveland) has a few too. They just got it this afternoon. However their demo still isn't charged up.

RE: N710C at Best Buy!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 6/1/2001 10:43:04 PM

Thanks for the tip in North Olmsted. I traveled there tonight to see it in person from Medina, Oh. Unfortunately, the unit was not charged and I was not able to view the screen. Ugghhh!!! The salesperson suggested that I stop by tomorrow and he would try to remember to charge it overnight. I own a M505 and was very curious to see the screen and compare it to my unit. Personally, I'm very happy w/ my m505 and plan to keep it but just curious on what the Clie has to offer.


Reply to this

Best Buy in stock date
Posted by: Rob Zimmerman @ 5/31/2001 3:59:00 PM

The new Clie is now in stock in a few Best Buy stores. I work at Best Buy and my store has it..YES!!! I am buying it now it rules. By sunday it should be in all stores.
Reply to this

CASE
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 6:09:15 PM

What does the case with the clie look like? is it one of those slip on things or does it attach to the unit like the palms so you dont have to take the thing in and out?

Anyone have a picture?

Thanks

go the the web site you lazy F
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 6/1/2001 10:23:54 AM

nt



Reply to this

THE TOP INSTUMENT
Posted by: NARONGSAK @ 6/1/2001 9:53:19 AM

should have data of sony cin7
RE: THE TOP INSTUMENT
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 6/1/2001 10:57:47 AM

uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


WHAT ?

You speaka english ?


Reply to this


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Well so much for ED's prediction.

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 4:45:49 PM #
nt

RE: Well so much for ED's prediction.
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/2/2001 1:41:37 AM #
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 4:13:41 PM

I saw it here first, it seems to be a new bulletin board.

http://www.infosync.no/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi

RE: battery life
Posted by: Cheetah @ 5/28/2001 1:40:04 AM

interesting charts. Shows 505 with and without backlight on vs. PPC in a battery test.

505 with backlight on has similiar battery life then the other PPC. But without backlight, the 505 has over TWICE the battery life.

This is exactly the point! 505 does not need backlight on all the time (not in direct sunlight and in good indoor light) therefore the battery life is much better then PPC in the practical world.

I love my 505 and only use backlight when in poor lighting. In the office the screen is fine without the backlight.

I would also say that the 505 with the backlight on in a dark room (e.g. movie theater) is 1000% better then the reverse backlight of the Palm Vx.


Reply to this

Clie N710C availability
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 5:11:04 PM

As of 05/26 1:10 PM

Sunnyvale -- Out (confirmed by sale person)
Palo Alto -- Out (confirmed by sale person)
San Jose -- around 6 in the shelf (they have 12 in stock originally)

RE: Clie N710C availability
Posted by: CarlJ @ 5/26/2001 9:52:09 PM

As of 05/26 around noon, San Diego Frys:

I believe there were four in stock when I first walked past the shelf to go look at the demo model; when I came back to pick up a box there were three left (including the one I took), then when I walked past 30 minutes later before getting in the checkout line, the shelf was bare :-)

RE: Clie N710C availability
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 5:42:53 AM

The Fremont Fry's is also carrying them, however when you call them and ask to see if they are in stock they won't know what you are talking about. Try giving them the item number: 3011669 they can look it up in their computers that way.

They do have it on display for those who want to compare the m505 screen and the Clie screen. I must admit, I've been playing with mine for several hours and it rocks. :)


Reply to this

Great Photos
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 7:27:01 PM

Check these out!!

These are comparing the IPAQ, CLIE, and Palm m505

http://briefcase.yahoo.com/dreamwave6


Clie is 2x thickness of m505.
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 8:23:27 PM

http://y42.briefcase.yahoo.com/dreamwave6


RE: Great Photos
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 11:08:56 AM

The Clie is twice as thick as the m505, but it's not as wide. It actually fits in the typical jeans pocket BETTER.

RE: Great Photos
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 12:44:57 PM

Its thinker, yes, but not TWICE as think! The clie is thinner then two m505 stacked on each other.
m505 .5" Clie .66" [505 x 2 = 1 INCH]

RE: Clie is 2x thickness of m505.
Posted by: CarlJ @ 5/29/2001 6:54:04 PM

The Clie is 5/8 inch thick, the m505 is 1/2 inch. That's a difference of 1/8 inch, or 25 PERCENT, not "twice as thick". The m505 is also about 1/8 inch shorter, and 3/8 inch WIDER than the Clie.

I pre-ordered the m505 (the night before they were announced); I cancelled when they started showing up in the stores and I saw first-hand how dim the screen was. I went to see the new Clie on Saturday, not intending to buy it, just to look... and ended up plunking down my money and taking one home (this, after comparing the "floor model" extensively against the m505 sitting next to it; I had a friend with me, she wanted to know where the brightness control was on the m505).

The Clie is smaller than my old Palm IIIx (a teensy bit shorter, 3/8 inch narrower, the same thickness), and has by far the best screen ever seen on a PalmOS handheld. I'm running with the backlight at about 25 percent -- at 100 percent, you could use it as a flashlight. At 320x320, the screen is simply breathtaking, and at 160x160, there is _no_ trace of the dreaded "black grid".

If the m505 had the Clie's backlight (I'm not talking about the hi-res screen, mind you, just the bright, adjustable, backlight), I would have gotten the m505 instead (weeks ago) -- I *like* the m505, it's sleek and sexy, and will no doubt be more widely supported. But, to me, the whole point of color is to make the information on the screen easier to read, and I found the m505's dim screen to be an impediment, not a benefit.

Folks, it's time to stop all the bickering; wait until you have a chance to compare the Clie and m505 side-by-side in a store somewhere, and *then* decide which is best for *you*.

RE: Great Photos
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 1:04:56 AM

If we bicker the only one who wins is Bill Gates.


Reply to this

The new Sony
Posted by: Edd @ 5/26/2001 8:05:14 PM

Hi, I just went to Fry's in Manhattan Beach to see the new color Clie and when we were there, we beamed the Photosuite and some pictures from our M505 just so we can compare them side by side. The resolution on the new Sony is awesome, not only the fonts look smoother on the Sony but also the pictures. There are no jagged edges on the fonts (not that I can see). The only thing is Sony can only display 256 colors and the Palm has more (16 bits).

When comparing side by side you can clearly see the Palm has more richer color display (but dimmer). Supposedly, the Japanese version of the Clie has more features than the one imported here. :(

Hey Edd,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 8:54:11 PM

quote from Edd: "Supposedly, the Japanese version of the Clie has more features than the one imported here. :("

What features are you talking about?

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: Edd @ 5/26/2001 9:31:27 PM

According to this Sony website in Japan http://www.sony.co.jp/sd/ProductsPark/Consumer/PEG/PEG-N700C/tv.html You're supposed to be able to download and watch TV on your Clie. I didn't see that mention anywhere on the USA box at Fry's.

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 9:36:29 PM

Go to www.genericmedia.com and download the app that Sony is packaging with it's Japanese CLIE. Get the Palm movie player and their movie maker. If you already have a TV-tuner card and WinVCR or something like that, you should be able to do it. Of course, you could just go buy this VAIO desktop from Sony specifically designed to record television programs instead of using your own TV-tuner card and WinVCR: http://www.sonystyle.com/vaio/digitalstudio/index.html

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 9:41:40 PM

Here ya' go...direct link: http://www.genericmedia.com/news_pr09.html

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: Edd @ 5/26/2001 9:49:40 PM

Thanks. Now let me go return my M505 :) while it still within 14 days return period at Staples.

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 9:59:30 PM

Remember, to have the Japanese have with their CLIE's, you'll have to have a large harddrive to capture a 1-hour long TV show or a really big one to capture a 2-hour long movie, then you'll have to have a much higher capacity Memory Stick than the 8MB one that comes with the CLIE. The 64MB Memory Stick goes for around $100 on eBay and the newer 128MB Memory Sticks go for around $200. These prices will come down eventually but as you can see it is going to be an expensive proposition to make the CLIE a portable movie player, which is EXACTLY what I plan to use mine for :)

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 10:26:24 PM

Try this out !!!

Using a program called HRCapt (DA Program)
located at:
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/fairy/chimer...OthersPalm.html
(it's in japanese),
I made several screen captures of my N710C Clie in various modes and pictures.
THe program captures Hi resolution as well as low, i've posted the pictures at:

http://members.nbci.com/nxt/clie710...0screencap.html

and yes, this IS a REAL screen capture from n710c

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 10:44:38 PM

Can't get your page up

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 10:44:38 PM

Can't get your page up

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 11:10:31 AM

Also, the nipponese clie doesn't play MP3. The American one does.

MP3
Posted by: Edd @ 5/27/2001 11:56:46 AM

Hmm.. I thought it does according to this page:

http://www.sony.co.jp/sd/ProductsPark/Consumer/PEG/PEG-N700C/music.html

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:23:55 PM

I realize the Sony has Mp3, Attrac, etc. play back; however, will these movies be encoded with sound via gMovie Maker and can they be played back with sound on gMovie Player?

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:25:44 PM

One other question, how big would say an hour long show encoded in MPEG-1 wind up. In other words, how much could you fit on a 128 meg memory stick?

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:44:45 PM

I saw the new Sony at a local Fry's and was impressed. The size and weight between the 505 and the N710c were comparable, one's a little wider, the other a little thicker. The screen was obviously sharper on the Sony, but when comparing the color, the Palm was actually richer. I was surprised. The brightness is great on the Clie, but the colors look washed out. Is there any way of increasing the contrast?

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 9:00:01 PM

Nope!

RE: 1-hr mpeg
Posted by: vgz @ 5/28/2001 1:12:37 AM

>>One other question, how big would say an hour long show encoded in MPEG-1 wind up. In other words, how much could you fit on a 128 meg memory stick?

It would depend on the frame rate but I have several mpeg files and a 50minute 17 sec mpeg is 489.6 MB. Good luck getting that on a memorystick.


Matt

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 3:07:02 PM

The Japanese 700 plays ONLY ATRAC3 format on white copy-protection memory sticks.

The American 710 plays ATRAC3 (bleah!) or MP3, and it can store MP3s on the cheaper, non-encrypted blue sticks.

Matt...gMovie Maker converts PC video files to gMovie format
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 7:49:34 PM

with sound. The gMovie Maker reformats the video to 320x320 resolution. A decent quality picture at a decent frame rate will get you about 1 minute of video with sound for every 1MB on the MS. Thus, a 128MB MS will let you watch a 2-hour movie.

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: eipangan @ 5/28/2001 9:27:04 PM

Starting June 18, users of the Japanese model can now download MediaPlayer 2.0, which can play MP3 off the blue stick. The download is priced at 2,000 yen but is on sale for the first few months - 1,500 yen.

Screenshots? Bah!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 6:54:51 PM

Ummm... You could put a bullet through the front of the Clie and the screenshots would look the same. Those do not show what the Clie's display does, it shows us what our computer moniors do.


Reply to this

Clie is big!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 10:48:55 PM

Holy cow! That thing is a monster! I though it would be closer to the palm m505, but it's beast! Be prepared to have a heavy, metal object (basically an iPaq in size) in your pocket if you get one of these. Screen is ok though, but not as vivid as described.


RE: Clie is big!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:42:04 AM

What do you base your comments about screen quality on??


RE: Clie is big!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 11:11:19 AM

Nope. It's nowhere near as big as an iPaq.

It's thicker than an m505, but not as thick as a Visor Prism. And because of the reduced width, it's very pocketable.

RE: Clie is big!
Posted by: TvM @ 5/27/2001 8:06:49 PM

It is plastic

RE: Clie is big!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 11:06:40 PM

It's NOT plastic!! It's metal... at least the front is, not sure about the back. You people should stop makig all these statements if you don't have anything to back it up.

RE: Clie is big!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 2:28:59 AM

Yes, stop those crap comments without proof! I own a Clie N700C, and having it put side by side with the iPaq, the size difference is great! Whoever says that they are the same, basically, you have neither seen both devices, or maybe never even seen them before!

Yes, its thicker than the 505, but its way thinner than Prism. Its in between. With the case on, m505 will be as thick as the Clie (with the flip cover on)

ON the other hand, the Clie is narrower, so it appears smaller, and it is thus very pocketable (in the pants pocket, not the shirt)


Reply to this

reseting
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 11:12:35 PM

how do i do a hard reset on my new clie ?


RE: reseting
Posted by: Shane @ 5/27/2001 6:05:57 AM

Your Clie come with a book called Instructions. If you turn to the first few pages you will find the Contents. If you look for resetting in there and turn to the right page it will explain how to do it.


RE: reseting
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:43:10 AM

LOL!! The questions some people ask! Hmm..2-10 hrs to get a reply to a post, vs 4 mins to look it up in the manual......decisions, decisions....


Reply to this

Here are the Links
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 12:27:29 AM

This is nXt btw, Mike Cane earlier posted some of my websites, unfortunately Geocities killed my account because I had some files!
The new pages are at the following

Mini Review:
http://members.nbci.com/nxt/clie710/710review.html

Screen Captures: <-- Must See
http://members.nbci.com/nxt/clie710/710screencap.html

Digital Camera Pictures:
http://members.nbci.com/nxt/clie710/cliepicture.html

RE: Here are the Links
Posted by: mikecane @ 5/27/2001 1:31:37 PM

Thanks, nXt! I should have read the board completely before I posted the other links above. These new ones seem to work.


RE: Here are the Links
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 10:11:40 PM

Thanks so much nXt for the screen capture pics. I was hoping that somewhere on the net would be some screen captures. Please add more when you have time.

I see you enlarged a 160x160 pic to the size of the 320x320 pic for comparison, but can you do it the other way around please? Reduce the hi res to the same size as low res so they can be compared that way too.

Thanks again! Good work.

RE: Here are the Links
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 3:56:23 AM

When enlarging the 160x160 screenshots in Photoshop, you should use Nearest Neighbor interpolation instead of Bicubic. This will accurately represent pixel-doubling.


Reply to this

Size!
Posted by: Cheetah @ 5/27/2001 6:22:01 AM

Hmmmm...more vibrant screen (although not 16bit), BUT much thicker, longer, and heavier!

That's the point of the 505. It has color yet retains it's small size and good battery life.

I've used my 505 for two weeks now and love it.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 6:50:36 AM

I agree about the size. Much as I tried to like the iPaq, the size issue was a killer for me. I use my m505 alot and just could not see carrying an iPaq like device around all day.

It may be fine for those who carry it from desk to meeting, to desk and home. But as a sales professional who lives with it - no way. People forget that is what Palm had in mind when it balanced the features of the device.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:47:08 AM

It may be thicker, but many new owners have said it fits the hand better than the 505

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 11:12:40 AM

Check it out before you write it off as bulky. The size is actually very good in actual use.

RE: Size!
Posted by: Edd @ 5/27/2001 12:02:06 PM

It fits comfortably in my hand and it slightly narrower than my M505 (so that you can use your thumb to operate the jog dial). Then new jog dial now has the back button (the monochrome one didn't have that) and it comes with PowerJog.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 12:50:20 PM

I have used it, and IT IS BIGGER, period. It is twice and thick, grab a ruler and check, I did. Yes it is slightly less in width, but does not make up for the depth. My PalmV was in a titanium hard case and I had it in my front pocket always, in the hard case it was still thinner than the clie, now I have the m505, and size wise it win hands down. Nothing fits in my pocket better.

Just my opinion. To each his own.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 12:58:42 PM

what is the point of carrying it around and the screen is annoying to look at?

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 1:23:06 PM


Hee hee hee

I love how we always get of the subject ,turn things around and make it us against them .LOL =)This makes me laugh alot.

Very antertaining .

Thanx

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 1:25:01 PM

What is the point of having a beautiful screen to look at if you never carry it around with you because it is too bulky?

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 1:52:29 PM

hahahah, palm company is dying and their customers are trashing each other products, PPC won heheheheeh I like it

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 2:27:24 PM

The CLIE's thickness is .03" thinner than the very portable visor deluxe form factor. The CLIE is not a brick. You people are a bunch of whinning, anorexic wimps!!

Hey, two 3x5 cards would really dissapear in your pants pocket. Just carry a few of those around and quit whining.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 7:39:28 PM

Clie thickness is 1.68 in, width is 7.1 in
M505 thickness is 1.27 in, width is 7.874 in

And when you are holding a PDA, the important parameters are the width and height (where width is more important than height). Simple math for calulcating the length to fit into your palm

width for Clie is 7.1 in
width for M505 is 7.874 in
The difference is 0.774 in (Clie win)

thickness for Clie is 1.68 in
thickness for M505 is 1.27 in
The difference is .41 in (M505 win)

width + 2 * thickness for Clie is 10.46 in
width + 2 * thickness for M505 is 10.414 in

The difference is 0.046 in (M505 win).

If you calculate the perimeter

2*width + 2 * thickness for Clie is 17.56 in
2*width + 2 * thickness for M505 is 18.288 in

The difference is 0.728 in (Clie win).

Of course, volume wise, Clie is still a little larger, but it is not as what some people claimed it to be BULKIER, HEAVIER. Sounds like Clie is way too big but it is not.

Besides the weight difference is only 20 g, if you put an MP3 plyer in M505, see how much that gonna weight?

M505 is definitely a loser compared to Clie (except for the 20g weight differnce and slightly larger form factor), now many people have seen the amaing screen and have learned that the Clie width is actually much narrower than M505, the proud M505 owners are whining about the thickness and weight? And that is the only valuable thing left for M505?

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:31:42 PM

Oops, the important parameters should be width and "thickness", not height.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:33:03 PM

I think the biggest loser of all is the person who computed all that. Do you plan to keep your Clie in your pocket protector?

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:50:04 PM

I have Clie N710C here with me, it fits into shirt pocket well. Have you seen the Clie with your own eyes and hold it with your own palm actually?

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 10:02:11 PM

I would love to see someone put a couple of 3 by 5 index cards in their shirt pocket, I can barely understand putting a m505 in, even if it does fit. Putting a Clie in your shirt pocket (as I have seen the size at a OD with a demo unit) would be the epitome of dorkiness.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 11:47:14 PM

>I think the biggest loser of all is the person who computed all that. Do you plan to keep your Clie in your pocket protector?<

He was just giving facts to support his claims of the CLie's size not speculations like everyone else

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 10:15:08 AM

Who ever calculated that is WRONG "thickness for Clie is 1.68 in thickness for M505 is 1.27 in" My m505 is only .5 IN thick!!! the m505 is not over 1 and a quarter inches!!!

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 12:26:16 PM

That would be 1.27 cm
0.5 inches x 2.54 cm/inch = 1.27 inches


RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 12:27:55 PM

Now I've done it:
0.5 inches x 2.54 cm/inch = 1.27 cm

Sorry

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 1:19:57 PM

why don't you guys just wait and hold both of them in your palm and then determine instead of doing all these silly calculations.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 3:09:27 PM

Geezus Christmas, children, GET A LIFE.

If you're so insecure that you have to trash other peoples' choices to justify your own, I pity you.

(And as for the "PPC win" comment, under 10% markeshare is winning? Must have made that calculation on an original Pentium. :-)

(Now see, you've lowered me to your level.. :-)

Biggest losers
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 2:06:45 AM

>I think the biggest loser of all is the person who computed all that. Do you plan to keep your Clie in your pocket protector?<

Actually, I believe the biggest losers are all those people that are calling the Clie "too big to carry around", the Clie "is as big as am iPAQ" and "the Clie is twice as thick as the m505". These are obviously not true. I think the motives behind people who post these comments feels so threaten by the Clie because it's better than their m505.

Come-on people, it's a handheld!! I understand if you are posting a legitimate complaint, but purposely making false statements just because there's a better product?!?!? That's the definition of a loser!!

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 10:22:53 AM

Actually, you have it backwards. People did nothing but bash the m505 for its dim screen, and hyped up the Clie to unrealistic expectations.

Now that the Clie is out, and people can compare them, the m505 holds its own against the Clie. Unless you want a brick sized MP3 player included, that is.

It is the Clie owners who now feel they have to justify their purchases, and will lash out against anyone who has something good to say about the m505.

Don't even start with the "its got a 320x320 screen..." arguement. Palm will integrate a high rez scrren into its future offerings when it feels that the processor can handle the higher resolution without slowing the hanheld down to a crawl. Plus they will give us high resolution AND 16 bit color in the future.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 12:27:12 PM

>Don't even start with the "its got a 320x320
>screen..." arguement. Palm will integrate a high rez
>scrren into its future offerings when it feels that
>the processor can handle the higher resolution
>without slowing the hanheld down to a crawl. Plus
>they will give us high resolution AND 16 bit color in
>the future.

Actually, YOU are really searching....

The majority of the feedback from actual Clie N710C owners have been positive as are the reviews from creditable from major tech. news sources. So there's no need to justify the Clie.

There is, however, a need to justify why the hell did someone pay $450 for an m505, while for $50 more they could've gottenso much more.

Oh, by the way...the Clie has a hardware video accelerator that speeds the 320x320 resolution up. From people who have tested the Clie, they obtain a benchmark of 207%!!! That's the speed of a visor platinum. The benchmark of the m505 was benchmarked at around 150%. So not only does the Clie have 320x320 resolution, it's actually faster than the m505.

And...speaking of the new processor...did you read that the new ARM processor will have built-in memory stick compatibilty?

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 3:26:05 PM

It is definitely not a legitimate comparison to benchmark 2 PDA's running different versions of the same OS. Clie=3.52 m505=4.0. Visor-3.5+

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 4:09:35 PM


So you mean 4.0 is slower than 3.5?

Correction: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 4:16:37 PM

Oops, that should be 1.27 cm for m505 thickness and 1.68 cm for Clie thickness. Sorry about the mistake!!

A benchmark is a benchmark
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 1:01:15 PM

>It is definitely not a legitimate comparison to >benchmark 2 PDA's running different versions of the >same OS. Clie=3.52 m505=4.0. Visor-3.5+

What difference does that make? Since it is the same OS but different versions, the benchmark 2.0 is compatible, that's all that matters. If look at the relative speed data on the benchmark, it listed both machines running Palm OS 3.2 and 3.5, aren't those different version of the same OS?


Reply to this

Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 12:36:06 PM

I’ve looked at all these pics of the Ipaq, Clie and M505 screen quality. I like all three machines if you could believe that but, I was willing to sacrifice some features for the reason that I value size the most…Said that, I need help to understand Why isn’t possible to have a contrast setting on the m505? Since it seams that the Ipaq and the Clie have similar types of screens???(Lit the same way so, it seams to me)

Can some one help me to have a better understanding how the clie or I paq were able to accomplish this and not palm…?

Thank you
730…=O)~


RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 1:16:59 PM

Great Question:
I too would like to know the answer Ed can you help with this one?Thanx


RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 2:41:53 PM

This was done on purpose in order to optimize battery life and the color screen.

If users were able to adjust the brightness, then the battery life would suffer and folks would be unhappy with the results.

RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:40:16 PM

Do you actually believe what you are talking about yourself? "If there is a button for brightness, then the battery life will be shorter", you think people are idiot, they don't know how to turn the brightness down when there are enough lights? This is ridiculous!!

RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:57:48 PM

I would have to agree!
That was a pretty dumb statement.
That the consumers meaning us would not be smart enough to know when to turn off the contrast button which would shorten battery life and palm based there decision on that.
Good one lets hear another.
I need a laugh.


RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 10:02:58 AM

To answer your question, yes I believe in what I am talking about.

Let me answer your question with a question. Why do you think there is no contrast option? Do you think it was an oversight on Palm's part? Do you really think Palm "forgot" to put in an option which has been in all the other palms before this one? I don't think so.
So if they didn't forget, and they didn't include it, the answer that best fits the situation is they set it for the optimal combination of battery life and screen brightness.

If you disagree with me, why not ask Palm? I'm sure by now they have received calls from folks asking how to adjust the contrast.

RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 11:31:14 AM

Let me use a question to answer your question too. What will you explain if Palm put a brightness control in the next verson of m505? "Oh!!! Palm listens to the customer?"

I have dropped by Frys many times to look at different PDAs, everytime when people looked at m505, most of them tried to find the brightness control to see if they could make it brighter.

If Palm decided not to include the brightness adjustment because of the reason you mentioned, I guess that is a big mistake!!

RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 1:56:17 PM

I will have to agree with the comments above you do have some valid points. Re: reasons that m505 did not come with a contrast button but if some third party app would come out to be able to change the setting of brightness-if this is at all possible he or she would make Bank! I would purchase it! In a heart beat.

RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 2:03:07 PM

"What will you explain if Palm put a brightness control in the next verson of m505? "Oh!!! Palm listens to the customer?""

The next version of the m505 may very well have a contrast control. It may also have a soft graffiti screen, 320x320 resolution and/or a better battery. And yes it would be due to customer demand. These are all hardware changes and some or all will probably be included in upcoming models. I don't think you will be seeing a contrast button in the current OS however.

RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 2:20:21 AM

IF there's a next version of the m505!!! Palm is sinking fast. They are "re-thinking" their strategy. They might pull out of the high-end market and focus on the low-end m100's.

RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 9:51:26 AM

Rather than letting us just speculate about Palm's reasoning, someone from Palm should step forward and explain the choices that they made with the M505. I have seen some very good posts from Handera explaining the design tradeoffs they made on their new model (color vs. black and white, etc.). In the absence of any statement from Palm we can only assume they think we're too dumb to handle a brightness control.

RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 4:04:16 PM

I guess it is due to the energy crisis!! So user can not adjust the brightness to drain power fast!!

Great idea, now the federal government should order all the lamp manufacturer to make a fix lamp so that the energy deficiency can be alleviated!


Reply to this

Size
Posted by: Volcano @ 5/27/2001 1:58:08 PM

I have had my M505 for 3 weeks now and use it for many houre everyday. I am a Operations Mgr. for PepsiCo and have many contacts, direct reporte, to do lists, e-mail, word docs, spreadsheets etc. that I must have at my finger tips instantly. The 505 packs it all. Every time I take it out of my pocket, I am still amazed by the size (absoulutly small). I had heard a lot about the sub-par screen and got caught up in the "hysteria" and actually went back to BEST BUY to trade it cor an IPAQ but the IPAQ was too big, the software too "awkward" and actually the M505 screen was to-me sharper under many more light conditions w/o fumbling w/contrast controls. I kept my 505 and I am still impressed w/it everyday!
RE: Size
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 2:52:23 PM

I totally agree; morningstar1844@hotmail.com
For the size you cannot beat it!


Volcano, Pepsi & Palmtop-pro
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 4:38:30 PM

Hi Volcano!

We are the premium mobile computing hardcopy magazine in Europe and would love to print your impression as manager at pepsico on the m505.

Please contact me directly:
Boris Michael von Luhovoy
publishing editor
Palmtop-pro magazine

bmv.luhovoy@nextra.at

for more information on us please visit:
www.palmtop-pro.com/index1.htm

(sorry folks - german only)

Please see also our story on the polarstern icebreaker & palm on:
www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=1923


RE: Size
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 3:11:42 PM

But why discuss the admittedly cool m505 in a Clie topic?

As for Pepsi, could you PLEASE do something to make Diet Pepsi not taste so crappy? I hate it when restaurants give the "no coke, pepsi" line. :-)

RE: M505
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 4:22:49 PM

Because M505 owners are having a hard time right now. They have to keep justifying their M505 purchase to themselves. I think the more choices we have the better. But some M505 owners keep trolling any Clie' article with disparaging remarks about a PDA that most have never seen in real life.

Nobody wins with less choices, we all lose.


Reply to this

Size
Posted by: seaaa @ 5/27/2001 3:14:11 PM

I agree with you Vol. my M505 is great. When ever I use it at work (constantly) it gets "oos and ahhs", awesome size, incredible expandbility ans color. I take it absoulutly every where, hiking, workouts, shopping and forget it's there. My brother works for Micro soft and they all have IPAQs, I beat him hands down pulling up basic applications faster while his IPAQ gets hung up on programs he accidently hit etc. Also he often does'nt have his IPAQ ("Too big to lug around!").
Reply to this

battery life?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 4:11:38 PM

Who knows the battery life of these three devices: Ipaq, clie710c and 505? Now I am more concerning about this rather than the size and screen quality. Different people have different preferences, for meI prefer a smaller size device, although I envy the screen quality of the clie. Yes I am a proud m505 owner.


RE: battery life?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 4:51:37 PM

Don't envy the screen of the Clie, you can only look at it for about 2-3 hours a charge running applications. It's not worth the bulkiness, the 256-color display, and they low battery life. Go with the m505, it treats you right.


RE: battery life?(Clie N700C and m505)
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 5:11:06 PM

As a author of BatteryBench, I tested both devices
(CLIE is japanese model N700C)

I tested both in normal mode of BatteryBench( it runs 1 second
and only display for 9 seconds)

N700C
backlight off : 16 hours
backlight minimum: 10 hours
backlight maximum: 6 hours

m505
backlight off : 15 hours
backlight on : 6.5 hours

FYI
m100: 40 hours
HandEra 330: 36 hours


YAMADA Tatsushi
Hacker dude-san
http://simple-palm.com


RE: battery life?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:46:14 PM

"It can only last 2-3 hours",

that is with playing mp3 and front light on. without front light, it last 11 hours for playing MP3. I think for normal usage, it should be even longer.

RE: battery life?
Posted by: JET8810 @ 5/27/2001 9:31:25 PM

wow...the handera gets 36 hours of battery life?!?!?! Is that just looking up adresses or games...also, using a cf modem and keyboard would drain the battery much.,..quicker...right?

RE: battery life?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 10:47:29 PM

> HE330, 36 hours with CF modem?

No, but you can plug the 330 into the wall and run it for as long as you like.

Bob


RE: battery life?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 2:43:30 AM

Clie lasts only 2 - 3 hours?
Another misinformed idiot making unfounded comments.
The clie can last as long as the m505, my dear friends.
I have used both, tried both.
Unless you play MP3 with the screen on, it will drain in 3 hours, else typical usage will last you at least one week. (1 hour a day on average)

RE: battery life?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 2:10:48 AM

Obviously you are another idiot who doesn't read people's comments in full. Why not scroll up and read again what he wrote?

RE: battery life!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 3:52:57 AM

After conducting real world tests we found that the battery life of a Palm is much longer as in any statistic.

The test results shown above are most probably conducted in a continuous mode e.g. running a program and measuring continuos until the battery is exhausted.
This puts on a battery an artificial (not a real world) drain. Thought there is no other standard to measure it has to be seen what ist is: As very rough comparing tool somehow probably ok or not (depends how you look at the data), it shows something but holds no water in real use as it reflects not the day to day PDA life.

Anyhow – the test as conducted here has probably some meaning, as there is no other known proper way to measure – even thought this does not reflect the real world performance.

In real world you flip the Palm open, look up your data and close down. This gives the battery the ability to recreate and gain when in off mode.

Our (out of the stomach and not 100% replicable) tests have shown, that the M500 runs up to about 21 hours in real world with light of – But that’s something widely depending on the individual users individual behaviour. So it is safe to say that the Palm has not only a very good real world performance but a superior one.

Like a RollsRoyce vendor answers a question to the horsepower of a Silvercloud with a disgusted but conclusive:

Enough power in any situation ... Sir'

Boris
Palmtop-pro Magazine
publishing editor
www.palmtop-pro.com


Reply to this

16bit M505 vs 8bit Clie
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 9:50:39 PM

I think people who compare these two don't realize there ain't much difference to the naked eye. As ED have reviewed, he cannot tell the difference from a 256 color picture and one of 16bit color. Maybe this is due to the cloudyness that some m505 owners have reported.

Some other people believe that having 16bit color will achieve better pictures. But if you think about it, 256 color does produce color banding, but it is at a much higher resolution (320x320). While m505 has 16bit colors, yet the pixelation of the machine will cause some color banding. In turn, they will both achieve the same colors, but the one with higher resolution will give better details and sharper image.

However m505 is still a great machine given the size of it with a built in expansion slot. If size is what you need, go for a m505, but if you want something new and innovative, with a great screen, get the clie.

Lastly, some has compared the iPaq with the new clie. I say the only comparison that you can really do is the screen itself. I've seen the pictures of the 3 machines and I say Clie has the best of the bunch. and best of all, its PalmOS. Now all i need is a place close to Canada so that I can drive down to get myself a Clie.

RE: 16bit M505 vs 8bit Clie
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 12:13:38 AM

Excellent point. I have a Clie and a Prism, I have to say even my Prism has 16 bit color, the resolution kills it. The Clie's 4 times higher resolution magnifies the visual effect. Now I suspect Palm and Handspring will push similar product given the overhelmingly good reputation of the Clie N-710C. Lets wait and see.


RE: 16bit M505 vs 8bit Clie
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 10:50:52 AM

Don't let the pictures fool you. The color on the Clie was not as intense as expected. Some have said that the colors on the m505 look milky. Having held the Clie in my hand, the colors are also "milky" and washed out. They are sharper though. Sharper is good. Washed out is not.

RE: 16bit M505 vs 8bit Clie
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 11:26:18 AM

Compared with Prism, the color of Clie is washed out, compared with, m505 color is also washed out (and because of the frontlight of m505 is not adjustable and very dim, the color looks more washed out than Clie, however, the m505 has more color but very dull).


Reply to this

VII
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 11:23:52 PM

can someone tell me if i can use AOL instant messenger on a VIIx. thanx


RE: VII
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 12:28:25 AM

i guess


RE: VII
Posted by: bcombee @ 5/28/2001 4:16:13 AM

There is a gateway PQA to send AOL IMs to other users, but you cannot receive instant messages, since the Palm VII/VIIx is not constantly connected -- it only gets data when you explicitly make a request.

RE: VII
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 11:28:21 AM

but couldnt you make a request constantly say like once every 5 seconds

RE: VII
Posted by: bcombee @ 5/29/2001 12:45:56 AM

Turn around time for a single request tends to be five to ten seconds. Having the device continually poll the server would run down the transmitter antenna in a few minutes, and drain the AAA's after an hour or so of usage.

Its just not feasible until a push-capable Palm, like the rumored m700, is available.


Reply to this

"Backlist" Graffiti area?
Posted by: jasonheyd @ 5/28/2001 9:34:42 AM


Anyone know if the Graffiti area of the N710C is backlist, as it is with the m505?


RE: "Backlit" Graffiti area ..
Posted by: jasonheyd @ 5/28/2001 9:36:12 AM


Meant "backLIT" not "list". :)


RE: Backlit
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 10:11:22 AM

No, at least the 700 is not. My guess the 710 is the same way.

RE:
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 10:16:27 AM

nope

RE:
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 11:23:49 AM

The four blocks (HOME, MENU, CALCULATOR, FIND) are backlit, the Graffitti area is not.

RE:
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 12:09:40 PM

>>The four blocks (HOME, MENU, CALCULATOR, FIND) are backlit, the Graffitti area is not.<<

Just as good!!

RE:
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 3:55:10 PM

Actually the graffitti area is lit a little since the front light sits underneath the top of the Graffitti area,
and the light can go to the top of the Graffitti area.

RE: Backlit graffiti area - NO, not on my US model
Posted by: PalmZealot @ 5/30/2001 2:00:37 PM

I just bought a Sony Clié N710C at Fry's last night. I had to charge it first to try it out - not like the HP Jornada 547 I bought last week (the HP 547 came with a Stowaway Keyboard, UBS cradle and 32MBRam for $399 - hand to try it - Ugh - S L O W . . . .).

I tried the Sony Clié N710C in the dark to see if the graffiti area was indeed lit, but is was NOT, and neither were the Home, Menu, Find or Calc areas. I found it impossible to write on the graffiti area in the darkness of the room while the mighty glow of the screen blinded me. Trying to find the "Brightness" button on the graffiti area was impossible too because it wasn't lit either.

While screen is bright, and sharp, but appears muddy and grey because of the bad CONTRAST setting. Too bad its not like the PPC's out on the market - like the HP 547 I bought last week - it of course has both Contrast and Brightness settings - something ANY color device SHOULD have. Your COLOR TV at home has a Contrast and Brightness adjustment, why not on these Palm OS handhelds????

Also point real quick if I may, the Sony Clié N710C is noticibly heavier than the other Palm PDA (minus the Prism of course), and if people are going to compare the m505 and the N710C, they should take into consideration the size of the two devices.

Its stands to reason that if the m505 had AS BIG a battery that the N710C uses, that the m505 would be AS BRIGHT and the battery life would last AS LONG as the Sony Clié N710C. Of course though, that would make the m505 AS BIG as the N710C, so what would be the point of having an m505 THAT BIG???? The m505 would loose its small sleak design. So that's the trade off.

After testing out the Sony Clié N710C, I have decided that I will be returning the Sony Clié N710C (like I did the HP 547). The Sony Clié N710C to me isn't worth the $537 (incld tax) I paid for it.


Reply to this

New Clie
Posted by: Dave @ 5/28/2001 12:37:54 PM

Few comments-
Sceen is pretty bright/colors little murky
Battery life in real testing doesn't last as long as m505
It is a thick machine, doesn't have the same pocketability factor.
To store songs on it, you need memory stick, which are very expensive.
Graffiti area does not glow.
Stick with your m505, it'll treat you right.
RE: New Clie
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 12:42:49 PM

another misinformed commenter


RE: New Clie
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 1:17:42 PM

how come everyone said memory stick is expensive. I found 64Mb for $78, how much is 64Mb of SD card anyway?

RE: New Clie
Posted by: twizza @ 5/28/2001 2:06:34 PM

i have seen the sd cards at expensive stores such as circuit city and best buy go for around $50-$55. the MMC versions go for about $15 less that that.

as for the price that u quoted. where was that. i have not see a 64mb mem stick for less that $80-$85.

RE: New Clie
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 2:31:50 PM

$50 for a 64Mb SD card? i don't think so. you said Circuit city, best buy... so there are no proves because but here is my prove of price for memory card, $78 for 64Mb
http://www.moreaudiovideo.com/Shopping/ItemList.cfm?ItemID=238

and $78.99 for 64Mb at
http://www.etronics.com/product.asp?stk_code=sonmsa64a&svbname=31

and $82 for 64Mb at ecost.com

please show me some place where they sell 64Mb of SD card for $50, please get real, don't post any message if you have nothing to back you up with

RE: New Clie
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 8:40:49 PM

Holly Cow!
Thats pretty cheap! $78.00 for a 64MB Mem stick.

I done know why i've been trying so hard to get one off Ebay !

New Clie will be the m505 killer!!!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 2:30:31 AM

OK, so the clie is only slighly bigger than the m505, and that the Clie uses only 8-bit color, and that the Clie uses memory sticks. So what?!?!

I don't understand why people are so fixated on these minor details.

Let's talk about the major details:
1. increase resolution 320x320
2. no grid-lines
3. built-in multi-media/MP3 support
4. jog-dail for easy navigation with a back button
5. adjustable screen contrast/brightness
6. better smoother text
7. brighter, whiter screen
8. longer battery life
9. 8 MB internal RAM, 4MB flash ROM, and 8MB memory stick included
10. travel charger included

The Clie has ALL the above while the m505 lacks them, and in my opinion, the features listed above most than justify fewer colors and a 0.16" thickness.

By the way, the color depth in the m505 is useless because of the dim screen.

New Clie will be the m505 killer!!!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 2:30:31 AM

OK, so the clie is only slighly bigger than the m505, and that the Clie uses only 8-bit color, and that the Clie uses memory sticks. So what?!?!

I don't understand why people are so fixated on these minor details.

Let's talk about the major details:
1. increase resolution 320x320
2. no grid-lines
3. built-in multi-media/MP3 support
4. jog-dail for easy navigation with a back button
5. adjustable screen contrast/brightness
6. better smoother text
7. brighter, whiter screen
8. longer battery life
9. 8 MB internal RAM, 4MB flash ROM, and 8MB memory stick included
10. travel charger included

The Clie has ALL the above while the m505 lacks them, and in my opinion, the features listed above most than justify fewer colors and a 0.16" thickness.

By the way, the color depth in the m505 is useless because of the dim screen.


Reply to this

Sony doesn't expect it to sell
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 1:16:53 PM

Look at the advertising. They spent millions to advertise the playstation 2 (before it came out), advertise their wega tv's, and their Vaio laptops. They haven't spent a dime advertising it. If the parent company doesn't care enough, why should we? Even if the Clie is the greatest handheld ever, if the parent company doesn't care the general public shouldn't either.


They are starting to advertise
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 4:07:57 PM

Actually I just saw the first ad on Friday.

It’s on the back cover of the June 1, 2001 Entertainment Weekly – not exactly a geek magazine.

They say it’s business tool because it runs the Palm OS. And it has entertainment features-it plays MP3’s and video clips.

I’m looking forward to getting my hands on one. –Just like a lot of other people.

I also hope that Sony can bring some add-on accessories to market soon too: wireless modem, folding keyboard, memory sticks with applications, etc.


RE: Sony doesn't expect it to sell
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 12:48:01 AM

My there are a lot of irrational people posting here with "Sony Envy".... The CLIE has sold out on the west coast in one weekend... hey Sony haters, my Mem Stick is bigger than your SD card!!

*arrogant chuckles*

RE: Sony doesn't expect it to sell
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 1:09:25 AM

You're an idiot!!

Did Palm advertise the m505 or m500 much?

Did Handspring advertise their products much?

I don't understand people like you, you post these ridiculous comments trying to trash a very good handheld. What's the matter? Did the Sony make your m505 look like crap? Are you afraid that Palm is going to get their butt kicked by SONY, HandEra, and Handspring?

RE: Sony doesn't expect it to sell
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 9:42:00 PM

Ummmm,
perhaps its not advertized because there are NONE TO BUY!!!!!
Cali is SOLD OUT.
REST of the country has yet to get it.

Lets advertize so frustated masses can go to their local retailer just to be disapointed!!!!

What an idiot.

RE: Sony doesn't expect it to sell
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 12:26:48 PM

Hey Sony/M505 fighters, my CF card has more memory than your memory sticks and SD cards combined.....

(not withstandng the fact that i can still use an SD card on top of that)...

ah, expandability....gotto love it

Handera330 user


Reply to this

Why is that?
Posted by: David Ross @ 5/28/2001 2:04:10 PM

Why is everyone fighting for their handheld? Just use the one you like and leave us alone!
RE: Why is that?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 4:27:54 PM

Because M505 owners are having a hard time right now. They have to keep justifying their M505 purchase to themselves. I think the more choices we have the better. But some M505 owners keep trolling any Clie' article with disparaging remarks about a PDA that most have never seen in real life.

Nobody wins with less choices, we all lose.

RE: Why is that?
Posted by: Gepeto @ 5/28/2001 5:32:33 PM

(David Ross = my Real name when I post from my Palm)
Exactly, but only to some extent. As long as most applications stay compatible with every device, I think the more choice the better. If people start to do Hi-res only applications, that's something else. And I think M505 may be right about the small size of it, but the CLIÉ is NOT a monster, it might be a bit bigger but some people like me don't care, we just want a bright screen with lots of pixels :)

David Ross
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 8:20:32 PM

David Ross? Are you David Ross from MacAddict?

RE: David Ross
Posted by: Gepeto @ 5/28/2001 9:17:25 PM

In fact I'm a student near Montreal. I'd love to have a brand new mac though :P


Reply to this

Clie low color count
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 5:09:11 PM

Somebody posted that the m505 has more possible colors that maximum pixels. I don't think he realizes that most people want this. The Clie with it's 256 color display, has only one different color for every 400 pixels if you fill up the screen evenly with all the colors. Do the math:
320x320=102400 pixels
/256 colors
400 pixels per color.
Now, that's not a very attractive number, is it?


RE: Clie low color count
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 5:29:35 PM

just look at the screen when you can get a hand on one, trust me the screen is much better than the m505, no question about it. No need for all these calculations. Just wait


RE: Clie low color count
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 11:01:37 PM

m505 has 16 bit color, but it looks like there are many layers of screen protector on the screen to dull the color.

RE: Clie low color count
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 2:19:51 AM

Why in the world would we want so much colours? It's a PDA after all, not some video player or photo album. These are just some extra sweet features, and ultimately, I think the higher resolution is more important in the long run.

RE: Clie low color count
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 4:04:12 AM

Here's some more math for you.

A 160x160, 16-bit color device has 25600 pixels and a range of 65536 colors. What do you need all those colors for?

An 8-bit color image, IF DITHERED WELL, can come very close to the quality of a 16-bit image in most cases.

Also, it was not too long ago that we were all playing 320x240 (or 320x200) DOS games in 8-bit VGA. (Kind of puts things in perspective, hm?) I never had any complaints about using a 256 color palette!


Reply to this

SIZE and the STICK
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 6:50:20 PM

It is nice too see that finally a bunch of us geeks finally realize that SIZE DOES MATTER !!

BTW - gotta stay away from memory stick - don't need a box of those to go with my beta machine. Long live CF - usable by more than Sony.

RE: SIZE and the STICK
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 7:24:54 PM

Sony and who else?

Could it be?!

Motorola for those following recent news.

RE: SIZE and the STICK
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 11:11:30 PM

Yeah good call... If Motorola makes the next Dragonball with memory stick support, I see a new standard for the PalmOS. And the next Clie will be sweet too!


Reply to this

RE: battery life
Posted by: Altema @ 5/28/2001 9:09:11 PM

Actually, the advertised battery life for the Sony is is 7.5 hours, The advertised battery life for the Palm M505 is 10.25 hours with mixed sidelight usage. With the sidelight on constantly, the time appears to be between 7 and 9 hours, so you can probably expect about 12 hours if you avoid the using the light at all, which is a flourescent display and should never burn out. Although neither one compares favorably with the III series (the IIIc will do up to 16 hours, IIIxe up to 30 hours), you have to consider the form factor of the M505 (smallest color device in the world), and the extra drain of the audio output on the Sony. What concerns me though, is that Palm OS users are beginning to bash Palm OS users. What gives? Both devices have their strong points and unique features. That's a good thing: we can pick our preferences and be a happy camper, and that does not mean we have to put down everyone else who may have different needs. The Pocket PC cannot gain the ground they want on Palm OS devices, even by giving away Desktop software, giving bribes to Palm supporters, and putting out full page cheap shots. However, Microsoft would love for this infighting to blow up, just so they can something more than their toenail in the PDA market. Open discussion on Palm OS device preferences is great, and the diversity will only make the Palm OS world stronger, but let's keep it civil.
RE: RE: battery life
Posted by: twizza @ 5/29/2001 12:08:03 AM

nicely said.


RE: RE: battery life
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 1:22:30 AM

Yes, I agree with you. I'm just irritated at all the people who are just posting wrong information about the Clie. I really wish people would stop, it's childish and unproductive.

But civility is no fun!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 8:24:36 AM

nt

RE: RE: battery life
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 10:16:43 AM

Debating the relative merits is useful. Ego-driven name calling is a waste of time. I'm pleased with my M505, but I'm glad there's another choice for those with different priorities.

RE: RE: battery life
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 11:10:32 AM

7 ~ 9 hours with sidelight on for M505?
I did a test as soon as I got my 505.
I use AOCtrlDA to keep my 505 on, with the sidelight on, it can only last for 5:49 (just idle, no any program running). If I kept the sidelight off, the battery life was 13:24. Both of them were measured by Runtime.

Is it normal? Can anybody tell me your battery life?

RE: RE: battery life
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 9:49:59 PM

Yeah why are we Palm OS people fighting?

Theres an Ipaq neard over there in the corner. Hes mumbling some Ram/Rom/bits sampling/ geekspeak.

Lets all go after HIM. :)


Reply to this

[ No Subject ]
Posted by: anonymous @ 5/29/2001 6:33:51 AM

Can the 710 actually play movies fluently? Or is this nothing more than an interesting demo of a still unrefined idea? It sounds too cool to be true!
RE: [ No Subject ]
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 4:24:59 PM

Unfortunatly no (but the audio is good). I am not if it is the software problem though!



Reply to this

RE: battery life
Posted by: Altema @ 5/29/2001 9:41:21 AM

Boris, you are right that these are not real world tests, they are indeed constant drain tests. Nobody uses their Palm that way. The only real-world numbers were for the III series of which I've had five. I have seen battery life testing manipulated in pretty extreme ways. One non-Palm organizer claimed to have a battery life of 180 hours continous! Reading the fine print, it turns out that the device was tested in a mode where there the screen was on, with no back light and no processing. Perhaps we could take a moment and standardize the tests. 30 minutes a day in a game demo mode, or something with the processor actually doing something?

Paul Campbell,
Telecommunications Network Engineer

RE: RE: battery life
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 1:00:51 PM

No bad idea at all.

But real life is even different from that.

We should consider once a day to:

Look up 20 addresses
Synchronise wireless to avantgo a given channel amount
Read email 15 minutes
Writing text for 20 minutes

Looks good in theory - but who has the time to do this for a prolonged time?

I would say - lets get on with life and accept the fact that the Palm 50x is a pretty good machine with a acceptable screen and enough battery life to make you comfortable in normal conditions - and let the fine details to the non-power user who crawl even in the last bit.

(Thought for expeditions which are away a prolonged period from their homebase like the one on:
www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=1923
We propose always battery driven Palms / Symbols / HandEra or battery emergency loader)

A power user is the one making the most of his machine by working with it every day and gaining benefit in being more productive or / and have simple good fun

- and not the one disassembling his Ferrari by the day (as only a freak does)
- changing oil and measuring the gas with a stick to calculate the consume

These chaps are avoiding driving around as the tires could get wet.

If the majority of users would more focus on real life problems (the proper software / solutions)and not trying to measure what’s not worth to measure as long at is basically ok- we would have a lot less useless flames and stress.

That’s the way I see it

Boris
www.palmtop-pro.com
--


Another theme: The chaps biting the nickel on this forum (on unimportant theoretical academic arguments) overlook that the product itself is not the mayor cost involved – if you choose the wrong tool (and thats the software) for your work means that you have to spend incredible time and effort later on.


Reply to this

This is REALLY sad
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 9:56:55 AM

I'm reading these post because I need a Palm and NONE of them are the perfect PDA for me. EVERY Palm I've looked at from EVERY manufacturer has some flaw. Handsprings are too big (the Edge is too expensive for being b/w). The Palm m505 screen isn't worth the $. The Clie has no wireless capability, and none planned for the immediate future. It's also NOT Mac compatible even though its USB. The Handera is cool, but again b/w screen and no wireless capability. The Kyocera is nice, but no Mac compatibility, and with the Samsung i300 months away, $500 is alot for a b/w screen. Even with all these visible flaws (give the high price of the "high end" models there is NO reason any of you should be quibbling that one model is better than another. Each has a stong point AND a weak point. In reality, there is very little that a m500 or a Clie can do that an M100 can't do. If you want to watch a movie on your PDA, go ahead. I need to get real productivity and performance for the $ out of whatever PDA I get. If I want to watch a movie I've got a DVD player in my laptop.


Get the m100 if you are cheap, get the m505 if you are not.
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 11:17:28 AM

This isn't rocket science.


RE: This is REALLY sad
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 12:08:41 PM

The Clie is compatible with a USB Macintosh if you get the Markspace (www.markspace.com) Clie Macpak. I use this on my Clie 300 and my brother uses it on his 710 he picked up Saturday at Frys San Diego. Cost is around $30.00.

PS-Sony actually will tell you to buy the Markspace software if you want to use a Clie on a MAC.

It's NOT about being cheap!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 2:08:24 PM

The point is everyone here is bickering over which PDA is the balls out best when NONE of the them are. They ALL have there weak points. I'm not buying ANY Palm now. I'm not alone here. Palm is on hard times because ONLY ubergeeks will tolerate their unimpressive line of PDAs. Give me a M505 with a hi-rez bright color screen, wireless capability to get MY email (not just palm.net), out of the box compatibility with Windows and Mac, add in a few whiz bang features like MP3 and then you might have a PDA worth of $450. Until then its all junk.

You are asking for features that you really don't need.
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 3:35:28 PM

nt

RE: This is REALLY sad
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 10:00:03 PM

Yeah why are we Palm OS people fighting?

Theres an Ipaq neard over there in the corner. He's mumbling some Ram/Rom/bits sampling/ geekspeak.

Lets all go after HIM. :)


RE: This is REALLY sad
Posted by: Chromosome @ 5/30/2001 1:24:11 PM

I love my m505--it's a better fit for my needs than the Sony. I also give a nod to Sony for developing the memory stick (SD/MMC) technology that Palm incorperated into the m50x. Most importantly, thanks to the Clie enthusiasts who developed the software (MSMount, McFile, and PowerRun) that really made the MMC work. It was even a Clie enthusiast who wrote a thread to walk us all through using these progerams last month! For those Clie lovers-enjoy your powerful new device! Functionally superior to my m505 but a little bigger. I respect you and appreciate you. Remember the words of Rodney King.. ;)

Chromosome

RE: This is REALLY sad
Posted by: CarlJ @ 5/30/2001 2:09:41 PM

I agree -- I love my new Clie; it's a better fit for my needs than the m505. I really like the m505 as well, but I am among those disappointed by the screen brightness. If the m505 screen works well for others (or perhaps you received units better/brighter than the demo models I saw), well, hey, that's cool, too.

As far as size goes, from my perspective it was, "hey, cool, the Clie is smaller than my IIIx", rather than, "gack, the Clie is bigger than a Vx". Sure, I'd love to have a Clie screen/backlight in an m505 body, but then I also want a 400mhz StrongARM, 32mb memory, flat-rate wireless Internet connectivity, and OS5... don't we all? :-)

It seems everyone is also arguing the relative merits of MemStick vs. SD/MMC vs. CF... (okay, well, granted, CF wins hands down on IO device support at this point, but you just can't build a CF-sized slot into a m505-sized handheld right now). But I see this as mostly a non-issue at this point, if you use the slot for external memory, and aren't buying / dragging around handfuls of the cards... I'm delighted by how transparently software that uses Palm's VFS API works between the two -- all the Clie MSMount-style software works on the m50x, and things advertised as supporting SD/MMC, like Palm's PalmReader (née PeanutReader), work just fine on my Clie/MemStick.

I'm looking forward to more programs supporting VFS, so you can, for example, keep a 100k dictionary app in main memory that reads from a 10mb database on a MS/SD/MMC/CF card. I'd love to see more document readers be able to directly read documents off the card (like PalmReader), without the use of MSMount or tricks to temporarily copy databases to RAM.


Reply to this

Call/Email Sonystyle and ask why pre-orders weren't shipped!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 2:52:36 PM

orderhelp@sonystyle.com

888-900-9872

Let them know they shouldn't treat their customers
this way. Ask why retails stores are selling them
when their pre-orders (with an announced ship date
of the 28th!!!) are still not shipping!


RE: Call/Email Sonystyle and ask why pre-orders weren't shipped!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 4:27:20 PM

If I recall correctly, Palm did the same thing for m505 (correct me if I am wrong).


RE: Call/Email Sonystyle and ask why pre-orders weren't shipped!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 5:59:36 PM

Does anyone know when will they start shipping the pre-orders?

RE: Call/Email Sonystyle and ask why pre-orders weren't shipped!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 9:37:11 PM

yeah - after everyone else gets theirs at retail.

Call them / Email them - let them know they shouldn't
treat their customers this way.

RE: Call/Email Sonystyle and ask why pre-orders weren't shipped!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 1:00:35 PM

Did you call Palm telling them that they shouldn't do that either?

RE: Call/Email Sonystyle and ask why pre-orders weren't shipped!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 4:42:27 PM

yes.

a pox on both their houses!
and on Staples too, for a $20 pre-order fee
that got you nothing.


Reply to this

Choices
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 4:35:26 AM

I am new to the world of PDA's following a IIIXE for Xmas last year. Like many of the commentators here, I quickly became an avid fan and tossed my self-printed paper planner. I am now trying to figure out which PDA to upgrade to. I need "power organizing" but I also appreciate "quality distractions" to fill the space between connecting flights. I do not however need to watch DVD's or view professional photographs on my PDA. Despite the critcism regarding the backlight, I was leaning towards the m505. I am happy for any pointers available for this newcomer and would like to know what other kinds of "plug-ins" are likely to be made available for the m505? Is it possible that a mp3 plug-in could produced in the same manner as PDA cameras? Is there a good site that has an easily digestible "head-to-head" comparison? These may be silly questions but greatful for any info.

Get a USA-Made m505. Use EasyView from PalmGear.com
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 9:04:17 AM

You will love it. Great upgrade from your III.



Reply to this

A wireless modem?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 2:13:52 PM

And when is the Sony Clié going to get a wireless modem? I got the Palm m505 because of Minstrel's support of the Palm platform. They've announced a wireless modem for the Palm m505, what good will the extra resolution be if you can't surf the web with the Clié? No thanks, but I'll take a Palm m505 with a Mistrel m500 and Blazer to surf the web wireless. The Sony Clié is just too limitied for me.


RE: A wireless modem?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 2:49:16 PM

I already have a wireless modem that works great with my Clie' ( as well as all of my Visors, Palms and PPCs). It is called a Nokia 8290 GSM phone. It works with any of my organizers via IR. It works with Palm's Mobile Internet Kit.

I was one of the original beta testers for OmniSky and used them until about three months ago. Bad software, bulky device and sporadic connections finally made me come to my senses. The phone makes a much better wireless modem.

Yeh! Who needs a Wireless modem, NOT ME!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 3:51:52 AM

Exactly what I was thinking,
I have a GSM cell phone with IR, which cost me nothing more than my phone contract, and it doubles as a modem for my PALMs.

RE: A wireless modem?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 10:24:45 AM

To the Wireless GSM phone users... What wireless service can you use the phones with in the U.S.? Sprint, Verizon, Voicestream, or others?
Thanks...
(Have a Palm V now, Still trying to decide between Clie N710C, Palm 505, or maybe, yes, even the iPaq)

RE: A wireless modem?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 11:05:53 AM

I am in San Jose, CA and use Cingular (formerly Pacific Bell).

Sprint Solution
Posted by: dstrauss @ 5/31/2001 2:02:30 PM

I just bought an all-in-one cable from www.thesupplynet.com which connects my Palm Vx to my Samsung 8500 cell phone. I enabled Wireless Web ($10 per month plus using cell minutes vs. $.39 per minute plus using minutes) and it works great for reaching email, but very slow for web surfing (19.2 +/-). You don't even need a dialup internet account, as you can quick connect to the Sprint net. For example, three short (one paragraph) email downloads and a single upload took 52 seconds (under the magic 1 minute useage). Not as seemless as an all-in-one phone, but for $50 for a cable, a lot cheaper.

RE: A wireless modem?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 3:48:53 PM

I don't consider a GSM phone a very simple or efficient solution for wireless access. The Minstrel m500 modem clips right onto the Palm and doesn't use any power from the Palm itself. IR communication for a sustained period will probably drain the battery a little faster. If there were a data cable solution it might be better, but you still have to fumble with two devices and a cable. The Mistrel adds only ounces to the back of the Palm and they clip together. Adding more weight to the Sony Clié would make it the heaviest PDA out there short of a PocketPC or laptop. We need some SIMPLE solutions for wireless access!

RE: A wireless modem?
Posted by: fleegle @ 5/31/2001 11:34:18 PM

"I am in San Jose, CA and use Cingular (formerly Pacific Bell)."

Which plan are you using? Does it use your voice minutes?

RE: A wireless modem?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 6/1/2001 2:03:39 AM

The way that Cingular works in CA is to add on a service called "PCS Data Connect". This is a second number that uses the data line for the phone. This means that it can also receive incoming data calls and faxes. On my phone it just pipes them out over IR if I accept the call.

The plan costs 4.99 per maonth and $.15 per minute of connect time. For me based on the 5 minutes or less per day that I averaged on the OmniSky, I am saving a huge amount of money. In the last four months, it has already paid for the phone. Connection strength is also much stronger than I ever got off of the OmniSky.


Reply to this

N710C at Best Buy!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 3:20:39 PM

For those of us east of Arizona with Fry's envy, I just wanted to let you know that I picked up my N710C at Best Buy this afternoon (5/30), so I would guess they should be all around the US by the end of the week.


RE: N710C at Best Buy!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 4:11:29 PM

Which Best Buy?


RE: N710C at Best Buy!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 5:02:45 PM

In a suburb of Chicago. Sorry for not mentioning the location.

RE: N710C at Best Buy!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 7:00:07 PM

Also in Mich, at the Dearborn Best Buy!

RE: N710C at Best Buy!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 10:36:09 AM

What is Best Buys return policy? I have an m505 that I got from OD and their return was 14 days

RE: N710C at Best Buy!
Posted by: LeshMan @ 5/31/2001 8:27:52 PM

I just went to the Best Buy on North May in Oklahoma City and they got two N710c's: one for demo purposes, and I bought the other one. They also let me trade in my old Palm Vx and get $280 towards the Clie!!!

RE: N710C at Best Buy!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 8:43:20 PM

North Olmsted, Ohio (suburb of Cleveland) has a few too. They just got it this afternoon. However their demo still isn't charged up.

RE: N710C at Best Buy!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 6/1/2001 10:43:04 PM

Thanks for the tip in North Olmsted. I traveled there tonight to see it in person from Medina, Oh. Unfortunately, the unit was not charged and I was not able to view the screen. Ugghhh!!! The salesperson suggested that I stop by tomorrow and he would try to remember to charge it overnight. I own a M505 and was very curious to see the screen and compare it to my unit. Personally, I'm very happy w/ my m505 and plan to keep it but just curious on what the Clie has to offer.


Reply to this

Best Buy in stock date
Posted by: Rob Zimmerman @ 5/31/2001 3:59:00 PM

The new Clie is now in stock in a few Best Buy stores. I work at Best Buy and my store has it..YES!!! I am buying it now it rules. By sunday it should be in all stores.
Reply to this

CASE
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 6:09:15 PM

What does the case with the clie look like? is it one of those slip on things or does it attach to the unit like the palms so you dont have to take the thing in and out?

Anyone have a picture?

Thanks

go the the web site you lazy F
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 6/1/2001 10:23:54 AM

nt



Reply to this

THE TOP INSTUMENT
Posted by: NARONGSAK @ 6/1/2001 9:53:19 AM

should have data of sony cin7
RE: THE TOP INSTUMENT
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 6/1/2001 10:57:47 AM

uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


WHAT ?

You speaka english ?


Reply to this


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m505 Supporters

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 7:45:41 PM #
I've had my m505 for 2 weeks and I LOVE IT! A GREAT additional screen feature: it doesn't BLIND you when using it in the dark! The brightness is just right. I also like my m505 because it's smaller than my IIIIx (with a TRG xtra xtra Pro board), not to mention color! I *ALSO* like.... (Need I go on?)
RE: m505 Supporters
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 9:17:18 PM #
I also own a Palm M505 and Im glad with it.
But I would like to have a contrast control to improve
the quality of the screen when there is too much light around.
I generally put on the background light. Otherwise it
is impossible to operate it.

RE: m505 Supporters
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/2/2001 1:45:42 AM #
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 4:13:41 PM

I saw it here first, it seems to be a new bulletin board.

http://www.infosync.no/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi

RE: battery life
Posted by: Cheetah @ 5/28/2001 1:40:04 AM

interesting charts. Shows 505 with and without backlight on vs. PPC in a battery test.

505 with backlight on has similiar battery life then the other PPC. But without backlight, the 505 has over TWICE the battery life.

This is exactly the point! 505 does not need backlight on all the time (not in direct sunlight and in good indoor light) therefore the battery life is much better then PPC in the practical world.

I love my 505 and only use backlight when in poor lighting. In the office the screen is fine without the backlight.

I would also say that the 505 with the backlight on in a dark room (e.g. movie theater) is 1000% better then the reverse backlight of the Palm Vx.


Reply to this

Clie N710C availability
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 5:11:04 PM

As of 05/26 1:10 PM

Sunnyvale -- Out (confirmed by sale person)
Palo Alto -- Out (confirmed by sale person)
San Jose -- around 6 in the shelf (they have 12 in stock originally)

RE: Clie N710C availability
Posted by: CarlJ @ 5/26/2001 9:52:09 PM

As of 05/26 around noon, San Diego Frys:

I believe there were four in stock when I first walked past the shelf to go look at the demo model; when I came back to pick up a box there were three left (including the one I took), then when I walked past 30 minutes later before getting in the checkout line, the shelf was bare :-)

RE: Clie N710C availability
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 5:42:53 AM

The Fremont Fry's is also carrying them, however when you call them and ask to see if they are in stock they won't know what you are talking about. Try giving them the item number: 3011669 they can look it up in their computers that way.

They do have it on display for those who want to compare the m505 screen and the Clie screen. I must admit, I've been playing with mine for several hours and it rocks. :)


Reply to this

Great Photos
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 7:27:01 PM

Check these out!!

These are comparing the IPAQ, CLIE, and Palm m505

http://briefcase.yahoo.com/dreamwave6


Clie is 2x thickness of m505.
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 8:23:27 PM

http://y42.briefcase.yahoo.com/dreamwave6


RE: Great Photos
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 11:08:56 AM

The Clie is twice as thick as the m505, but it's not as wide. It actually fits in the typical jeans pocket BETTER.

RE: Great Photos
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 12:44:57 PM

Its thinker, yes, but not TWICE as think! The clie is thinner then two m505 stacked on each other.
m505 .5" Clie .66" [505 x 2 = 1 INCH]

RE: Clie is 2x thickness of m505.
Posted by: CarlJ @ 5/29/2001 6:54:04 PM

The Clie is 5/8 inch thick, the m505 is 1/2 inch. That's a difference of 1/8 inch, or 25 PERCENT, not "twice as thick". The m505 is also about 1/8 inch shorter, and 3/8 inch WIDER than the Clie.

I pre-ordered the m505 (the night before they were announced); I cancelled when they started showing up in the stores and I saw first-hand how dim the screen was. I went to see the new Clie on Saturday, not intending to buy it, just to look... and ended up plunking down my money and taking one home (this, after comparing the "floor model" extensively against the m505 sitting next to it; I had a friend with me, she wanted to know where the brightness control was on the m505).

The Clie is smaller than my old Palm IIIx (a teensy bit shorter, 3/8 inch narrower, the same thickness), and has by far the best screen ever seen on a PalmOS handheld. I'm running with the backlight at about 25 percent -- at 100 percent, you could use it as a flashlight. At 320x320, the screen is simply breathtaking, and at 160x160, there is _no_ trace of the dreaded "black grid".

If the m505 had the Clie's backlight (I'm not talking about the hi-res screen, mind you, just the bright, adjustable, backlight), I would have gotten the m505 instead (weeks ago) -- I *like* the m505, it's sleek and sexy, and will no doubt be more widely supported. But, to me, the whole point of color is to make the information on the screen easier to read, and I found the m505's dim screen to be an impediment, not a benefit.

Folks, it's time to stop all the bickering; wait until you have a chance to compare the Clie and m505 side-by-side in a store somewhere, and *then* decide which is best for *you*.

RE: Great Photos
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 1:04:56 AM

If we bicker the only one who wins is Bill Gates.


Reply to this

The new Sony
Posted by: Edd @ 5/26/2001 8:05:14 PM

Hi, I just went to Fry's in Manhattan Beach to see the new color Clie and when we were there, we beamed the Photosuite and some pictures from our M505 just so we can compare them side by side. The resolution on the new Sony is awesome, not only the fonts look smoother on the Sony but also the pictures. There are no jagged edges on the fonts (not that I can see). The only thing is Sony can only display 256 colors and the Palm has more (16 bits).

When comparing side by side you can clearly see the Palm has more richer color display (but dimmer). Supposedly, the Japanese version of the Clie has more features than the one imported here. :(

Hey Edd,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 8:54:11 PM

quote from Edd: "Supposedly, the Japanese version of the Clie has more features than the one imported here. :("

What features are you talking about?

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: Edd @ 5/26/2001 9:31:27 PM

According to this Sony website in Japan http://www.sony.co.jp/sd/ProductsPark/Consumer/PEG/PEG-N700C/tv.html You're supposed to be able to download and watch TV on your Clie. I didn't see that mention anywhere on the USA box at Fry's.

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 9:36:29 PM

Go to www.genericmedia.com and download the app that Sony is packaging with it's Japanese CLIE. Get the Palm movie player and their movie maker. If you already have a TV-tuner card and WinVCR or something like that, you should be able to do it. Of course, you could just go buy this VAIO desktop from Sony specifically designed to record television programs instead of using your own TV-tuner card and WinVCR: http://www.sonystyle.com/vaio/digitalstudio/index.html

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 9:41:40 PM

Here ya' go...direct link: http://www.genericmedia.com/news_pr09.html

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: Edd @ 5/26/2001 9:49:40 PM

Thanks. Now let me go return my M505 :) while it still within 14 days return period at Staples.

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 9:59:30 PM

Remember, to have the Japanese have with their CLIE's, you'll have to have a large harddrive to capture a 1-hour long TV show or a really big one to capture a 2-hour long movie, then you'll have to have a much higher capacity Memory Stick than the 8MB one that comes with the CLIE. The 64MB Memory Stick goes for around $100 on eBay and the newer 128MB Memory Sticks go for around $200. These prices will come down eventually but as you can see it is going to be an expensive proposition to make the CLIE a portable movie player, which is EXACTLY what I plan to use mine for :)

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 10:26:24 PM

Try this out !!!

Using a program called HRCapt (DA Program)
located at:
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/fairy/chimer...OthersPalm.html
(it's in japanese),
I made several screen captures of my N710C Clie in various modes and pictures.
THe program captures Hi resolution as well as low, i've posted the pictures at:

http://members.nbci.com/nxt/clie710...0screencap.html

and yes, this IS a REAL screen capture from n710c

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 10:44:38 PM

Can't get your page up

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 10:44:38 PM

Can't get your page up

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 11:10:31 AM

Also, the nipponese clie doesn't play MP3. The American one does.

MP3
Posted by: Edd @ 5/27/2001 11:56:46 AM

Hmm.. I thought it does according to this page:

http://www.sony.co.jp/sd/ProductsPark/Consumer/PEG/PEG-N700C/music.html

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:23:55 PM

I realize the Sony has Mp3, Attrac, etc. play back; however, will these movies be encoded with sound via gMovie Maker and can they be played back with sound on gMovie Player?

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:25:44 PM

One other question, how big would say an hour long show encoded in MPEG-1 wind up. In other words, how much could you fit on a 128 meg memory stick?

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:44:45 PM

I saw the new Sony at a local Fry's and was impressed. The size and weight between the 505 and the N710c were comparable, one's a little wider, the other a little thicker. The screen was obviously sharper on the Sony, but when comparing the color, the Palm was actually richer. I was surprised. The brightness is great on the Clie, but the colors look washed out. Is there any way of increasing the contrast?

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 9:00:01 PM

Nope!

RE: 1-hr mpeg
Posted by: vgz @ 5/28/2001 1:12:37 AM

>>One other question, how big would say an hour long show encoded in MPEG-1 wind up. In other words, how much could you fit on a 128 meg memory stick?

It would depend on the frame rate but I have several mpeg files and a 50minute 17 sec mpeg is 489.6 MB. Good luck getting that on a memorystick.


Matt

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 3:07:02 PM

The Japanese 700 plays ONLY ATRAC3 format on white copy-protection memory sticks.

The American 710 plays ATRAC3 (bleah!) or MP3, and it can store MP3s on the cheaper, non-encrypted blue sticks.

Matt...gMovie Maker converts PC video files to gMovie format
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 7:49:34 PM

with sound. The gMovie Maker reformats the video to 320x320 resolution. A decent quality picture at a decent frame rate will get you about 1 minute of video with sound for every 1MB on the MS. Thus, a 128MB MS will let you watch a 2-hour movie.

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: eipangan @ 5/28/2001 9:27:04 PM

Starting June 18, users of the Japanese model can now download MediaPlayer 2.0, which can play MP3 off the blue stick. The download is priced at 2,000 yen but is on sale for the first few months - 1,500 yen.

Screenshots? Bah!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 6:54:51 PM

Ummm... You could put a bullet through the front of the Clie and the screenshots would look the same. Those do not show what the Clie's display does, it shows us what our computer moniors do.


Reply to this

Clie is big!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 10:48:55 PM

Holy cow! That thing is a monster! I though it would be closer to the palm m505, but it's beast! Be prepared to have a heavy, metal object (basically an iPaq in size) in your pocket if you get one of these. Screen is ok though, but not as vivid as described.


RE: Clie is big!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:42:04 AM

What do you base your comments about screen quality on??


RE: Clie is big!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 11:11:19 AM

Nope. It's nowhere near as big as an iPaq.

It's thicker than an m505, but not as thick as a Visor Prism. And because of the reduced width, it's very pocketable.

RE: Clie is big!
Posted by: TvM @ 5/27/2001 8:06:49 PM

It is plastic

RE: Clie is big!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 11:06:40 PM

It's NOT plastic!! It's metal... at least the front is, not sure about the back. You people should stop makig all these statements if you don't have anything to back it up.

RE: Clie is big!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 2:28:59 AM

Yes, stop those crap comments without proof! I own a Clie N700C, and having it put side by side with the iPaq, the size difference is great! Whoever says that they are the same, basically, you have neither seen both devices, or maybe never even seen them before!

Yes, its thicker than the 505, but its way thinner than Prism. Its in between. With the case on, m505 will be as thick as the Clie (with the flip cover on)

ON the other hand, the Clie is narrower, so it appears smaller, and it is thus very pocketable (in the pants pocket, not the shirt)


Reply to this

reseting
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 11:12:35 PM

how do i do a hard reset on my new clie ?


RE: reseting
Posted by: Shane @ 5/27/2001 6:05:57 AM

Your Clie come with a book called Instructions. If you turn to the first few pages you will find the Contents. If you look for resetting in there and turn to the right page it will explain how to do it.


RE: reseting
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:43:10 AM

LOL!! The questions some people ask! Hmm..2-10 hrs to get a reply to a post, vs 4 mins to look it up in the manual......decisions, decisions....


Reply to this

Here are the Links
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 12:27:29 AM

This is nXt btw, Mike Cane earlier posted some of my websites, unfortunately Geocities killed my account because I had some files!
The new pages are at the following

Mini Review:
http://members.nbci.com/nxt/clie710/710review.html

Screen Captures: <-- Must See
http://members.nbci.com/nxt/clie710/710screencap.html

Digital Camera Pictures:
http://members.nbci.com/nxt/clie710/cliepicture.html

RE: Here are the Links
Posted by: mikecane @ 5/27/2001 1:31:37 PM

Thanks, nXt! I should have read the board completely before I posted the other links above. These new ones seem to work.


RE: Here are the Links
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 10:11:40 PM

Thanks so much nXt for the screen capture pics. I was hoping that somewhere on the net would be some screen captures. Please add more when you have time.

I see you enlarged a 160x160 pic to the size of the 320x320 pic for comparison, but can you do it the other way around please? Reduce the hi res to the same size as low res so they can be compared that way too.

Thanks again! Good work.

RE: Here are the Links
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 3:56:23 AM

When enlarging the 160x160 screenshots in Photoshop, you should use Nearest Neighbor interpolation instead of Bicubic. This will accurately represent pixel-doubling.


Reply to this

Size!
Posted by: Cheetah @ 5/27/2001 6:22:01 AM

Hmmmm...more vibrant screen (although not 16bit), BUT much thicker, longer, and heavier!

That's the point of the 505. It has color yet retains it's small size and good battery life.

I've used my 505 for two weeks now and love it.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 6:50:36 AM

I agree about the size. Much as I tried to like the iPaq, the size issue was a killer for me. I use my m505 alot and just could not see carrying an iPaq like device around all day.

It may be fine for those who carry it from desk to meeting, to desk and home. But as a sales professional who lives with it - no way. People forget that is what Palm had in mind when it balanced the features of the device.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:47:08 AM

It may be thicker, but many new owners have said it fits the hand better than the 505

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 11:12:40 AM

Check it out before you write it off as bulky. The size is actually very good in actual use.

RE: Size!
Posted by: Edd @ 5/27/2001 12:02:06 PM

It fits comfortably in my hand and it slightly narrower than my M505 (so that you can use your thumb to operate the jog dial). Then new jog dial now has the back button (the monochrome one didn't have that) and it comes with PowerJog.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 12:50:20 PM

I have used it, and IT IS BIGGER, period. It is twice and thick, grab a ruler and check, I did. Yes it is slightly less in width, but does not make up for the depth. My PalmV was in a titanium hard case and I had it in my front pocket always, in the hard case it was still thinner than the clie, now I have the m505, and size wise it win hands down. Nothing fits in my pocket better.

Just my opinion. To each his own.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 12:58:42 PM

what is the point of carrying it around and the screen is annoying to look at?

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 1:23:06 PM


Hee hee hee

I love how we always get of the subject ,turn things around and make it us against them .LOL =)This makes me laugh alot.

Very antertaining .

Thanx

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 1:25:01 PM

What is the point of having a beautiful screen to look at if you never carry it around with you because it is too bulky?

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 1:52:29 PM

hahahah, palm company is dying and their customers are trashing each other products, PPC won heheheheeh I like it

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 2:27:24 PM

The CLIE's thickness is .03" thinner than the very portable visor deluxe form factor. The CLIE is not a brick. You people are a bunch of whinning, anorexic wimps!!

Hey, two 3x5 cards would really dissapear in your pants pocket. Just carry a few of those around and quit whining.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 7:39:28 PM

Clie thickness is 1.68 in, width is 7.1 in
M505 thickness is 1.27 in, width is 7.874 in

And when you are holding a PDA, the important parameters are the width and height (where width is more important than height). Simple math for calulcating the length to fit into your palm

width for Clie is 7.1 in
width for M505 is 7.874 in
The difference is 0.774 in (Clie win)

thickness for Clie is 1.68 in
thickness for M505 is 1.27 in
The difference is .41 in (M505 win)

width + 2 * thickness for Clie is 10.46 in
width + 2 * thickness for M505 is 10.414 in

The difference is 0.046 in (M505 win).

If you calculate the perimeter

2*width + 2 * thickness for Clie is 17.56 in
2*width + 2 * thickness for M505 is 18.288 in

The difference is 0.728 in (Clie win).

Of course, volume wise, Clie is still a little larger, but it is not as what some people claimed it to be BULKIER, HEAVIER. Sounds like Clie is way too big but it is not.

Besides the weight difference is only 20 g, if you put an MP3 plyer in M505, see how much that gonna weight?

M505 is definitely a loser compared to Clie (except for the 20g weight differnce and slightly larger form factor), now many people have seen the amaing screen and have learned that the Clie width is actually much narrower than M505, the proud M505 owners are whining about the thickness and weight? And that is the only valuable thing left for M505?

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:31:42 PM

Oops, the important parameters should be width and "thickness", not height.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:33:03 PM

I think the biggest loser of all is the person who computed all that. Do you plan to keep your Clie in your pocket protector?

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:50:04 PM

I have Clie N710C here with me, it fits into shirt pocket well. Have you seen the Clie with your own eyes and hold it with your own palm actually?

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 10:02:11 PM

I would love to see someone put a couple of 3 by 5 index cards in their shirt pocket, I can barely understand putting a m505 in, even if it does fit. Putting a Clie in your shirt pocket (as I have seen the size at a OD with a demo unit) would be the epitome of dorkiness.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 11:47:14 PM

>I think the biggest loser of all is the person who computed all that. Do you plan to keep your Clie in your pocket protector?<

He was just giving facts to support his claims of the CLie's size not speculations like everyone else

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 10:15:08 AM

Who ever calculated that is WRONG "thickness for Clie is 1.68 in thickness for M505 is 1.27 in" My m505 is only .5 IN thick!!! the m505 is not over 1 and a quarter inches!!!

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 12:26:16 PM

That would be 1.27 cm
0.5 inches x 2.54 cm/inch = 1.27 inches


RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 12:27:55 PM

Now I've done it:
0.5 inches x 2.54 cm/inch = 1.27 cm

Sorry

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 1:19:57 PM

why don't you guys just wait and hold both of them in your palm and then determine instead of doing all these silly calculations.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 3:09:27 PM

Geezus Christmas, children, GET A LIFE.

If you're so insecure that you have to trash other peoples' choices to justify your own, I pity you.

(And as for the "PPC win" comment, under 10% markeshare is winning? Must have made that calculation on an original Pentium. :-)

(Now see, you've lowered me to your level.. :-)

Biggest losers
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 2:06:45 AM

>I think the biggest loser of all is the person who computed all that. Do you plan to keep your Clie in your pocket protector?<

Actually, I believe the biggest losers are all those people that are calling the Clie "too big to carry around", the Clie "is as big as am iPAQ" and "the Clie is twice as thick as the m505". These are obviously not true. I think the motives behind people who post these comments feels so threaten by the Clie because it's better than their m505.

Come-on people, it's a handheld!! I understand if you are posting a legitimate complaint, but purposely making false statements just because there's a better product?!?!? That's the definition of a loser!!

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 10:22:53 AM

Actually, you have it backwards. People did nothing but bash the m505 for its dim screen, and hyped up the Clie to unrealistic expectations.

Now that the Clie is out, and people can compare them, the m505 holds its own against the Clie. Unless you want a brick sized MP3 player included, that is.

It is the Clie owners who now feel they have to justify their purchases, and will lash out against anyone who has something good to say about the m505.

Don't even start with the "its got a 320x320 screen..." arguement. Palm will integrate a high rez scrren into its future offerings when it feels that the processor can handle the higher resolution without slowing the hanheld down to a crawl. Plus they will give us high resolution AND 16 bit color in the future.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 12:27:12 PM

>Don't even start with the "its got a 320x320
>screen..." arguement. Palm will integrate a high rez
>scrren into its future offerings when it feels that
>the processor can handle the higher resolution
>without slowing the hanheld down to a crawl. Plus
>they will give us high resolution AND 16 bit color in
>the future.

Actually, YOU are really searching....

The majority of the feedback from actual Clie N710C owners have been positive as are the reviews from creditable from major tech. news sources. So there's no need to justify the Clie.

There is, however, a need to justify why the hell did someone pay $450 for an m505, while for $50 more they could've gottenso much more.

Oh, by the way...the Clie has a hardware video accelerator that speeds the 320x320 resolution up. From people who have tested the Clie, they obtain a benchmark of 207%!!! That's the speed of a visor platinum. The benchmark of the m505 was benchmarked at around 150%. So not only does the Clie have 320x320 resolution, it's actually faster than the m505.

And...speaking of the new processor...did you read that the new ARM processor will have built-in memory stick compatibilty?

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 3:26:05 PM

It is definitely not a legitimate comparison to benchmark 2 PDA's running different versions of the same OS. Clie=3.52 m505=4.0. Visor-3.5+

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 4:09:35 PM


So you mean 4.0 is slower than 3.5?

Correction: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 4:16:37 PM

Oops, that should be 1.27 cm for m505 thickness and 1.68 cm for Clie thickness. Sorry about the mistake!!

A benchmark is a benchmark
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 1:01:15 PM

>It is definitely not a legitimate comparison to >benchmark 2 PDA's running different versions of the >same OS. Clie=3.52 m505=4.0. Visor-3.5+

What difference does that make? Since it is the same OS but different versions, the benchmark 2.0 is compatible, that's all that matters. If look at the relative speed data on the benchmark, it listed both machines running Palm OS 3.2 and 3.5, aren't those different version of the same OS?


Reply to this

Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 12:36:06 PM

I’ve looked at all these pics of the Ipaq, Clie and M505 screen quality. I like all three machines if you could believe that but, I was willing to sacrifice some features for the reason that I value size the most…Said that, I need help to understand Why isn’t possible to have a contrast setting on the m505? Since it seams that the Ipaq and the Clie have similar types of screens???(Lit the same way so, it seams to me)

Can some one help me to have a better understanding how the clie or I paq were able to accomplish this and not palm…?

Thank you
730…=O)~


RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 1:16:59 PM

Great Question:
I too would like to know the answer Ed can you help with this one?Thanx


RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 2:41:53 PM

This was done on purpose in order to optimize battery life and the color screen.

If users were able to adjust the brightness, then the battery life would suffer and folks would be unhappy with the results.

RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:40:16 PM

Do you actually believe what you are talking about yourself? "If there is a button for brightness, then the battery life will be shorter", you think people are idiot, they don't know how to turn the brightness down when there are enough lights? This is ridiculous!!

RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:57:48 PM

I would have to agree!
That was a pretty dumb statement.
That the consumers meaning us would not be smart enough to know when to turn off the contrast button which would shorten battery life and palm based there decision on that.
Good one lets hear another.
I need a laugh.


RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 10:02:58 AM

To answer your question, yes I believe in what I am talking about.

Let me answer your question with a question. Why do you think there is no contrast option? Do you think it was an oversight on Palm's part? Do you really think Palm "forgot" to put in an option which has been in all the other palms before this one? I don't think so.
So if they didn't forget, and they didn't include it, the answer that best fits the situation is they set it for the optimal combination of battery life and screen brightness.

If you disagree with me, why not ask Palm? I'm sure by now they have received calls from folks asking how to adjust the contrast.

RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 11:31:14 AM

Let me use a question to answer your question too. What will you explain if Palm put a brightness control in the next verson of m505? "Oh!!! Palm listens to the customer?"

I have dropped by Frys many times to look at different PDAs, everytime when people looked at m505, most of them tried to find the brightness control to see if they could make it brighter.

If Palm decided not to include the brightness adjustment because of the reason you mentioned, I guess that is a big mistake!!

RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 1:56:17 PM

I will have to agree with the comments above you do have some valid points. Re: reasons that m505 did not come with a contrast button but if some third party app would come out to be able to change the setting of brightness-if this is at all possible he or she would make Bank! I would purchase it! In a heart beat.

RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 2:03:07 PM

"What will you explain if Palm put a brightness control in the next verson of m505? "Oh!!! Palm listens to the customer?""

The next version of the m505 may very well have a contrast control. It may also have a soft graffiti screen, 320x320 resolution and/or a better battery. And yes it would be due to customer demand. These are all hardware changes and some or all will probably be included in upcoming models. I don't think you will be seeing a contrast button in the current OS however.

RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 2:20:21 AM

IF there's a next version of the m505!!! Palm is sinking fast. They are "re-thinking" their strategy. They might pull out of the high-end market and focus on the low-end m100's.

RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 9:51:26 AM

Rather than letting us just speculate about Palm's reasoning, someone from Palm should step forward and explain the choices that they made with the M505. I have seen some very good posts from Handera explaining the design tradeoffs they made on their new model (color vs. black and white, etc.). In the absence of any statement from Palm we can only assume they think we're too dumb to handle a brightness control.

RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 4:04:16 PM

I guess it is due to the energy crisis!! So user can not adjust the brightness to drain power fast!!

Great idea, now the federal government should order all the lamp manufacturer to make a fix lamp so that the energy deficiency can be alleviated!


Reply to this

Size
Posted by: Volcano @ 5/27/2001 1:58:08 PM

I have had my M505 for 3 weeks now and use it for many houre everyday. I am a Operations Mgr. for PepsiCo and have many contacts, direct reporte, to do lists, e-mail, word docs, spreadsheets etc. that I must have at my finger tips instantly. The 505 packs it all. Every time I take it out of my pocket, I am still amazed by the size (absoulutly small). I had heard a lot about the sub-par screen and got caught up in the "hysteria" and actually went back to BEST BUY to trade it cor an IPAQ but the IPAQ was too big, the software too "awkward" and actually the M505 screen was to-me sharper under many more light conditions w/o fumbling w/contrast controls. I kept my 505 and I am still impressed w/it everyday!
RE: Size
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 2:52:23 PM

I totally agree; morningstar1844@hotmail.com
For the size you cannot beat it!


Volcano, Pepsi & Palmtop-pro
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 4:38:30 PM

Hi Volcano!

We are the premium mobile computing hardcopy magazine in Europe and would love to print your impression as manager at pepsico on the m505.

Please contact me directly:
Boris Michael von Luhovoy
publishing editor
Palmtop-pro magazine

bmv.luhovoy@nextra.at

for more information on us please visit:
www.palmtop-pro.com/index1.htm

(sorry folks - german only)

Please see also our story on the polarstern icebreaker & palm on:
www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=1923


RE: Size
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 3:11:42 PM

But why discuss the admittedly cool m505 in a Clie topic?

As for Pepsi, could you PLEASE do something to make Diet Pepsi not taste so crappy? I hate it when restaurants give the "no coke, pepsi" line. :-)

RE: M505
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 4:22:49 PM

Because M505 owners are having a hard time right now. They have to keep justifying their M505 purchase to themselves. I think the more choices we have the better. But some M505 owners keep trolling any Clie' article with disparaging remarks about a PDA that most have never seen in real life.

Nobody wins with less choices, we all lose.


Reply to this

Size
Posted by: seaaa @ 5/27/2001 3:14:11 PM

I agree with you Vol. my M505 is great. When ever I use it at work (constantly) it gets "oos and ahhs", awesome size, incredible expandbility ans color. I take it absoulutly every where, hiking, workouts, shopping and forget it's there. My brother works for Micro soft and they all have IPAQs, I beat him hands down pulling up basic applications faster while his IPAQ gets hung up on programs he accidently hit etc. Also he often does'nt have his IPAQ ("Too big to lug around!").
Reply to this

battery life?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 4:11:38 PM

Who knows the battery life of these three devices: Ipaq, clie710c and 505? Now I am more concerning about this rather than the size and screen quality. Different people have different preferences, for meI prefer a smaller size device, although I envy the screen quality of the clie. Yes I am a proud m505 owner.


RE: battery life?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 4:51:37 PM

Don't envy the screen of the Clie, you can only look at it for about 2-3 hours a charge running applications. It's not worth the bulkiness, the 256-color display, and they low battery life. Go with the m505, it treats you right.


RE: battery life?(Clie N700C and m505)
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 5:11:06 PM

As a author of BatteryBench, I tested both devices
(CLIE is japanese model N700C)

I tested both in normal mode of BatteryBench( it runs 1 second
and only display for 9 seconds)

N700C
backlight off : 16 hours
backlight minimum: 10 hours
backlight maximum: 6 hours

m505
backlight off : 15 hours
backlight on : 6.5 hours

FYI
m100: 40 hours
HandEra 330: 36 hours


YAMADA Tatsushi
Hacker dude-san
http://simple-palm.com


RE: battery life?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:46:14 PM

"It can only last 2-3 hours",

that is with playing mp3 and front light on. without front light, it last 11 hours for playing MP3. I think for normal usage, it should be even longer.

RE: battery life?
Posted by: JET8810 @ 5/27/2001 9:31:25 PM

wow...the handera gets 36 hours of battery life?!?!?! Is that just looking up adresses or games...also, using a cf modem and keyboard would drain the battery much.,..quicker...right?

RE: battery life?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 10:47:29 PM

> HE330, 36 hours with CF modem?

No, but you can plug the 330 into the wall and run it for as long as you like.

Bob


RE: battery life?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 2:43:30 AM

Clie lasts only 2 - 3 hours?
Another misinformed idiot making unfounded comments.
The clie can last as long as the m505, my dear friends.
I have used both, tried both.
Unless you play MP3 with the screen on, it will drain in 3 hours, else typical usage will last you at least one week. (1 hour a day on average)

RE: battery life?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 2:10:48 AM

Obviously you are another idiot who doesn't read people's comments in full. Why not scroll up and read again what he wrote?

RE: battery life!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 3:52:57 AM

After conducting real world tests we found that the battery life of a Palm is much longer as in any statistic.

The test results shown above are most probably conducted in a continuous mode e.g. running a program and measuring continuos until the battery is exhausted.
This puts on a battery an artificial (not a real world) drain. Thought there is no other standard to measure it has to be seen what ist is: As very rough comparing tool somehow probably ok or not (depends how you look at the data), it shows something but holds no water in real use as it reflects not the day to day PDA life.

Anyhow – the test as conducted here has probably some meaning, as there is no other known proper way to measure – even thought this does not reflect the real world performance.

In real world you flip the Palm open, look up your data and close down. This gives the battery the ability to recreate and gain when in off mode.

Our (out of the stomach and not 100% replicable) tests have shown, that the M500 runs up to about 21 hours in real world with light of – But that’s something widely depending on the individual users individual behaviour. So it is safe to say that the Palm has not only a very good real world performance but a superior one.

Like a RollsRoyce vendor answers a question to the horsepower of a Silvercloud with a disgusted but conclusive:

Enough power in any situation ... Sir'

Boris
Palmtop-pro Magazine
publishing editor
www.palmtop-pro.com


Reply to this

16bit M505 vs 8bit Clie
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 9:50:39 PM

I think people who compare these two don't realize there ain't much difference to the naked eye. As ED have reviewed, he cannot tell the difference from a 256 color picture and one of 16bit color. Maybe this is due to the cloudyness that some m505 owners have reported.

Some other people believe that having 16bit color will achieve better pictures. But if you think about it, 256 color does produce color banding, but it is at a much higher resolution (320x320). While m505 has 16bit colors, yet the pixelation of the machine will cause some color banding. In turn, they will both achieve the same colors, but the one with higher resolution will give better details and sharper image.

However m505 is still a great machine given the size of it with a built in expansion slot. If size is what you need, go for a m505, but if you want something new and innovative, with a great screen, get the clie.

Lastly, some has compared the iPaq with the new clie. I say the only comparison that you can really do is the screen itself. I've seen the pictures of the 3 machines and I say Clie has the best of the bunch. and best of all, its PalmOS. Now all i need is a place close to Canada so that I can drive down to get myself a Clie.

RE: 16bit M505 vs 8bit Clie
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 12:13:38 AM

Excellent point. I have a Clie and a Prism, I have to say even my Prism has 16 bit color, the resolution kills it. The Clie's 4 times higher resolution magnifies the visual effect. Now I suspect Palm and Handspring will push similar product given the overhelmingly good reputation of the Clie N-710C. Lets wait and see.


RE: 16bit M505 vs 8bit Clie
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 10:50:52 AM

Don't let the pictures fool you. The color on the Clie was not as intense as expected. Some have said that the colors on the m505 look milky. Having held the Clie in my hand, the colors are also "milky" and washed out. They are sharper though. Sharper is good. Washed out is not.

RE: 16bit M505 vs 8bit Clie
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 11:26:18 AM

Compared with Prism, the color of Clie is washed out, compared with, m505 color is also washed out (and because of the frontlight of m505 is not adjustable and very dim, the color looks more washed out than Clie, however, the m505 has more color but very dull).


Reply to this

VII
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 11:23:52 PM

can someone tell me if i can use AOL instant messenger on a VIIx. thanx


RE: VII
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 12:28:25 AM

i guess


RE: VII
Posted by: bcombee @ 5/28/2001 4:16:13 AM

There is a gateway PQA to send AOL IMs to other users, but you cannot receive instant messages, since the Palm VII/VIIx is not constantly connected -- it only gets data when you explicitly make a request.

RE: VII
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 11:28:21 AM

but couldnt you make a request constantly say like once every 5 seconds

RE: VII
Posted by: bcombee @ 5/29/2001 12:45:56 AM

Turn around time for a single request tends to be five to ten seconds. Having the device continually poll the server would run down the transmitter antenna in a few minutes, and drain the AAA's after an hour or so of usage.

Its just not feasible until a push-capable Palm, like the rumored m700, is available.


Reply to this

"Backlist" Graffiti area?
Posted by: jasonheyd @ 5/28/2001 9:34:42 AM


Anyone know if the Graffiti area of the N710C is backlist, as it is with the m505?


RE: "Backlit" Graffiti area ..
Posted by: jasonheyd @ 5/28/2001 9:36:12 AM


Meant "backLIT" not "list". :)


RE: Backlit
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 10:11:22 AM

No, at least the 700 is not. My guess the 710 is the same way.

RE:
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 10:16:27 AM

nope

RE:
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 11:23:49 AM

The four blocks (HOME, MENU, CALCULATOR, FIND) are backlit, the Graffitti area is not.

RE:
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 12:09:40 PM

>>The four blocks (HOME, MENU, CALCULATOR, FIND) are backlit, the Graffitti area is not.<<

Just as good!!

RE:
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 3:55:10 PM

Actually the graffitti area is lit a little since the front light sits underneath the top of the Graffitti area,
and the light can go to the top of the Graffitti area.

RE: Backlit graffiti area - NO, not on my US model
Posted by: PalmZealot @ 5/30/2001 2:00:37 PM

I just bought a Sony Clié N710C at Fry's last night. I had to charge it first to try it out - not like the HP Jornada 547 I bought last week (the HP 547 came with a Stowaway Keyboard, UBS cradle and 32MBRam for $399 - hand to try it - Ugh - S L O W . . . .).

I tried the Sony Clié N710C in the dark to see if the graffiti area was indeed lit, but is was NOT, and neither were the Home, Menu, Find or Calc areas. I found it impossible to write on the graffiti area in the darkness of the room while the mighty glow of the screen blinded me. Trying to find the "Brightness" button on the graffiti area was impossible too because it wasn't lit either.

While screen is bright, and sharp, but appears muddy and grey because of the bad CONTRAST setting. Too bad its not like the PPC's out on the market - like the HP 547 I bought last week - it of course has both Contrast and Brightness settings - something ANY color device SHOULD have. Your COLOR TV at home has a Contrast and Brightness adjustment, why not on these Palm OS handhelds????

Also point real quick if I may, the Sony Clié N710C is noticibly heavier than the other Palm PDA (minus the Prism of course), and if people are going to compare the m505 and the N710C, they should take into consideration the size of the two devices.

Its stands to reason that if the m505 had AS BIG a battery that the N710C uses, that the m505 would be AS BRIGHT and the battery life would last AS LONG as the Sony Clié N710C. Of course though, that would make the m505 AS BIG as the N710C, so what would be the point of having an m505 THAT BIG???? The m505 would loose its small sleak design. So that's the trade off.

After testing out the Sony Clié N710C, I have decided that I will be returning the Sony Clié N710C (like I did the HP 547). The Sony Clié N710C to me isn't worth the $537 (incld tax) I paid for it.


Reply to this

New Clie
Posted by: Dave @ 5/28/2001 12:37:54 PM

Few comments-
Sceen is pretty bright/colors little murky
Battery life in real testing doesn't last as long as m505
It is a thick machine, doesn't have the same pocketability factor.
To store songs on it, you need memory stick, which are very expensive.
Graffiti area does not glow.
Stick with your m505, it'll treat you right.
RE: New Clie
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 12:42:49 PM

another misinformed commenter


RE: New Clie
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 1:17:42 PM

how come everyone said memory stick is expensive. I found 64Mb for $78, how much is 64Mb of SD card anyway?

RE: New Clie
Posted by: twizza @ 5/28/2001 2:06:34 PM

i have seen the sd cards at expensive stores such as circuit city and best buy go for around $50-$55. the MMC versions go for about $15 less that that.

as for the price that u quoted. where was that. i have not see a 64mb mem stick for less that $80-$85.

RE: New Clie
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 2:31:50 PM

$50 for a 64Mb SD card? i don't think so. you said Circuit city, best buy... so there are no proves because but here is my prove of price for memory card, $78 for 64Mb
http://www.moreaudiovideo.com/Shopping/ItemList.cfm?ItemID=238

and $78.99 for 64Mb at
http://www.etronics.com/product.asp?stk_code=sonmsa64a&svbname=31

and $82 for 64Mb at ecost.com

please show me some place where they sell 64Mb of SD card for $50, please get real, don't post any message if you have nothing to back you up with

RE: New Clie
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 8:40:49 PM

Holly Cow!
Thats pretty cheap! $78.00 for a 64MB Mem stick.

I done know why i've been trying so hard to get one off Ebay !

New Clie will be the m505 killer!!!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 2:30:31 AM

OK, so the clie is only slighly bigger than the m505, and that the Clie uses only 8-bit color, and that the Clie uses memory sticks. So what?!?!

I don't understand why people are so fixated on these minor details.

Let's talk about the major details:
1. increase resolution 320x320
2. no grid-lines
3. built-in multi-media/MP3 support
4. jog-dail for easy navigation with a back button
5. adjustable screen contrast/brightness
6. better smoother text
7. brighter, whiter screen
8. longer battery life
9. 8 MB internal RAM, 4MB flash ROM, and 8MB memory stick included
10. travel charger included

The Clie has ALL the above while the m505 lacks them, and in my opinion, the features listed above most than justify fewer colors and a 0.16" thickness.

By the way, the color depth in the m505 is useless because of the dim screen.

New Clie will be the m505 killer!!!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 2:30:31 AM

OK, so the clie is only slighly bigger than the m505, and that the Clie uses only 8-bit color, and that the Clie uses memory sticks. So what?!?!

I don't understand why people are so fixated on these minor details.

Let's talk about the major details:
1. increase resolution 320x320
2. no grid-lines
3. built-in multi-media/MP3 support
4. jog-dail for easy navigation with a back button
5. adjustable screen contrast/brightness
6. better smoother text
7. brighter, whiter screen
8. longer battery life
9. 8 MB internal RAM, 4MB flash ROM, and 8MB memory stick included
10. travel charger included

The Clie has ALL the above while the m505 lacks them, and in my opinion, the features listed above most than justify fewer colors and a 0.16" thickness.

By the way, the color depth in the m505 is useless because of the dim screen.


Reply to this

Sony doesn't expect it to sell
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 1:16:53 PM

Look at the advertising. They spent millions to advertise the playstation 2 (before it came out), advertise their wega tv's, and their Vaio laptops. They haven't spent a dime advertising it. If the parent company doesn't care enough, why should we? Even if the Clie is the greatest handheld ever, if the parent company doesn't care the general public shouldn't either.


They are starting to advertise
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 4:07:57 PM

Actually I just saw the first ad on Friday.

It’s on the back cover of the June 1, 2001 Entertainment Weekly – not exactly a geek magazine.

They say it’s business tool because it runs the Palm OS. And it has entertainment features-it plays MP3’s and video clips.

I’m looking forward to getting my hands on one. –Just like a lot of other people.

I also hope that Sony can bring some add-on accessories to market soon too: wireless modem, folding keyboard, memory sticks with applications, etc.


RE: Sony doesn't expect it to sell
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 12:48:01 AM

My there are a lot of irrational people posting here with "Sony Envy".... The CLIE has sold out on the west coast in one weekend... hey Sony haters, my Mem Stick is bigger than your SD card!!

*arrogant chuckles*

RE: Sony doesn't expect it to sell
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 1:09:25 AM

You're an idiot!!

Did Palm advertise the m505 or m500 much?

Did Handspring advertise their products much?

I don't understand people like you, you post these ridiculous comments trying to trash a very good handheld. What's the matter? Did the Sony make your m505 look like crap? Are you afraid that Palm is going to get their butt kicked by SONY, HandEra, and Handspring?

RE: Sony doesn't expect it to sell
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 9:42:00 PM

Ummmm,
perhaps its not advertized because there are NONE TO BUY!!!!!
Cali is SOLD OUT.
REST of the country has yet to get it.

Lets advertize so frustated masses can go to their local retailer just to be disapointed!!!!

What an idiot.

RE: Sony doesn't expect it to sell
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 12:26:48 PM

Hey Sony/M505 fighters, my CF card has more memory than your memory sticks and SD cards combined.....

(not withstandng the fact that i can still use an SD card on top of that)...

ah, expandability....gotto love it

Handera330 user


Reply to this

Why is that?
Posted by: David Ross @ 5/28/2001 2:04:10 PM

Why is everyone fighting for their handheld? Just use the one you like and leave us alone!
RE: Why is that?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 4:27:54 PM

Because M505 owners are having a hard time right now. They have to keep justifying their M505 purchase to themselves. I think the more choices we have the better. But some M505 owners keep trolling any Clie' article with disparaging remarks about a PDA that most have never seen in real life.

Nobody wins with less choices, we all lose.

RE: Why is that?
Posted by: Gepeto @ 5/28/2001 5:32:33 PM

(David Ross = my Real name when I post from my Palm)
Exactly, but only to some extent. As long as most applications stay compatible with every device, I think the more choice the better. If people start to do Hi-res only applications, that's something else. And I think M505 may be right about the small size of it, but the CLIÉ is NOT a monster, it might be a bit bigger but some people like me don't care, we just want a bright screen with lots of pixels :)

David Ross
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 8:20:32 PM

David Ross? Are you David Ross from MacAddict?

RE: David Ross
Posted by: Gepeto @ 5/28/2001 9:17:25 PM

In fact I'm a student near Montreal. I'd love to have a brand new mac though :P


Reply to this

Clie low color count
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 5:09:11 PM

Somebody posted that the m505 has more possible colors that maximum pixels. I don't think he realizes that most people want this. The Clie with it's 256 color display, has only one different color for every 400 pixels if you fill up the screen evenly with all the colors. Do the math:
320x320=102400 pixels
/256 colors
400 pixels per color.
Now, that's not a very attractive number, is it?


RE: Clie low color count
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 5:29:35 PM

just look at the screen when you can get a hand on one, trust me the screen is much better than the m505, no question about it. No need for all these calculations. Just wait


RE: Clie low color count
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 11:01:37 PM

m505 has 16 bit color, but it looks like there are many layers of screen protector on the screen to dull the color.

RE: Clie low color count
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 2:19:51 AM

Why in the world would we want so much colours? It's a PDA after all, not some video player or photo album. These are just some extra sweet features, and ultimately, I think the higher resolution is more important in the long run.

RE: Clie low color count
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 4:04:12 AM

Here's some more math for you.

A 160x160, 16-bit color device has 25600 pixels and a range of 65536 colors. What do you need all those colors for?

An 8-bit color image, IF DITHERED WELL, can come very close to the quality of a 16-bit image in most cases.

Also, it was not too long ago that we were all playing 320x240 (or 320x200) DOS games in 8-bit VGA. (Kind of puts things in perspective, hm?) I never had any complaints about using a 256 color palette!


Reply to this

SIZE and the STICK
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 6:50:20 PM

It is nice too see that finally a bunch of us geeks finally realize that SIZE DOES MATTER !!

BTW - gotta stay away from memory stick - don't need a box of those to go with my beta machine. Long live CF - usable by more than Sony.

RE: SIZE and the STICK
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 7:24:54 PM

Sony and who else?

Could it be?!

Motorola for those following recent news.

RE: SIZE and the STICK
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 11:11:30 PM

Yeah good call... If Motorola makes the next Dragonball with memory stick support, I see a new standard for the PalmOS. And the next Clie will be sweet too!


Reply to this

RE: battery life
Posted by: Altema @ 5/28/2001 9:09:11 PM

Actually, the advertised battery life for the Sony is is 7.5 hours, The advertised battery life for the Palm M505 is 10.25 hours with mixed sidelight usage. With the sidelight on constantly, the time appears to be between 7 and 9 hours, so you can probably expect about 12 hours if you avoid the using the light at all, which is a flourescent display and should never burn out. Although neither one compares favorably with the III series (the IIIc will do up to 16 hours, IIIxe up to 30 hours), you have to consider the form factor of the M505 (smallest color device in the world), and the extra drain of the audio output on the Sony. What concerns me though, is that Palm OS users are beginning to bash Palm OS users. What gives? Both devices have their strong points and unique features. That's a good thing: we can pick our preferences and be a happy camper, and that does not mean we have to put down everyone else who may have different needs. The Pocket PC cannot gain the ground they want on Palm OS devices, even by giving away Desktop software, giving bribes to Palm supporters, and putting out full page cheap shots. However, Microsoft would love for this infighting to blow up, just so they can something more than their toenail in the PDA market. Open discussion on Palm OS device preferences is great, and the diversity will only make the Palm OS world stronger, but let's keep it civil.
RE: RE: battery life
Posted by: twizza @ 5/29/2001 12:08:03 AM

nicely said.


RE: RE: battery life
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 1:22:30 AM

Yes, I agree with you. I'm just irritated at all the people who are just posting wrong information about the Clie. I really wish people would stop, it's childish and unproductive.

But civility is no fun!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 8:24:36 AM

nt

RE: RE: battery life
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 10:16:43 AM

Debating the relative merits is useful. Ego-driven name calling is a waste of time. I'm pleased with my M505, but I'm glad there's another choice for those with different priorities.

RE: RE: battery life
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 11:10:32 AM

7 ~ 9 hours with sidelight on for M505?
I did a test as soon as I got my 505.
I use AOCtrlDA to keep my 505 on, with the sidelight on, it can only last for 5:49 (just idle, no any program running). If I kept the sidelight off, the battery life was 13:24. Both of them were measured by Runtime.

Is it normal? Can anybody tell me your battery life?

RE: RE: battery life
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 9:49:59 PM

Yeah why are we Palm OS people fighting?

Theres an Ipaq neard over there in the corner. Hes mumbling some Ram/Rom/bits sampling/ geekspeak.

Lets all go after HIM. :)


Reply to this

[ No Subject ]
Posted by: anonymous @ 5/29/2001 6:33:51 AM

Can the 710 actually play movies fluently? Or is this nothing more than an interesting demo of a still unrefined idea? It sounds too cool to be true!
RE: [ No Subject ]
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 4:24:59 PM

Unfortunatly no (but the audio is good). I am not if it is the software problem though!



Reply to this

RE: battery life
Posted by: Altema @ 5/29/2001 9:41:21 AM

Boris, you are right that these are not real world tests, they are indeed constant drain tests. Nobody uses their Palm that way. The only real-world numbers were for the III series of which I've had five. I have seen battery life testing manipulated in pretty extreme ways. One non-Palm organizer claimed to have a battery life of 180 hours continous! Reading the fine print, it turns out that the device was tested in a mode where there the screen was on, with no back light and no processing. Perhaps we could take a moment and standardize the tests. 30 minutes a day in a game demo mode, or something with the processor actually doing something?

Paul Campbell,
Telecommunications Network Engineer

RE: RE: battery life
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 1:00:51 PM

No bad idea at all.

But real life is even different from that.

We should consider once a day to:

Look up 20 addresses
Synchronise wireless to avantgo a given channel amount
Read email 15 minutes
Writing text for 20 minutes

Looks good in theory - but who has the time to do this for a prolonged time?

I would say - lets get on with life and accept the fact that the Palm 50x is a pretty good machine with a acceptable screen and enough battery life to make you comfortable in normal conditions - and let the fine details to the non-power user who crawl even in the last bit.

(Thought for expeditions which are away a prolonged period from their homebase like the one on:
www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=1923
We propose always battery driven Palms / Symbols / HandEra or battery emergency loader)

A power user is the one making the most of his machine by working with it every day and gaining benefit in being more productive or / and have simple good fun

- and not the one disassembling his Ferrari by the day (as only a freak does)
- changing oil and measuring the gas with a stick to calculate the consume

These chaps are avoiding driving around as the tires could get wet.

If the majority of users would more focus on real life problems (the proper software / solutions)and not trying to measure what’s not worth to measure as long at is basically ok- we would have a lot less useless flames and stress.

That’s the way I see it

Boris
www.palmtop-pro.com
--


Another theme: The chaps biting the nickel on this forum (on unimportant theoretical academic arguments) overlook that the product itself is not the mayor cost involved – if you choose the wrong tool (and thats the software) for your work means that you have to spend incredible time and effort later on.


Reply to this

This is REALLY sad
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 9:56:55 AM

I'm reading these post because I need a Palm and NONE of them are the perfect PDA for me. EVERY Palm I've looked at from EVERY manufacturer has some flaw. Handsprings are too big (the Edge is too expensive for being b/w). The Palm m505 screen isn't worth the $. The Clie has no wireless capability, and none planned for the immediate future. It's also NOT Mac compatible even though its USB. The Handera is cool, but again b/w screen and no wireless capability. The Kyocera is nice, but no Mac compatibility, and with the Samsung i300 months away, $500 is alot for a b/w screen. Even with all these visible flaws (give the high price of the "high end" models there is NO reason any of you should be quibbling that one model is better than another. Each has a stong point AND a weak point. In reality, there is very little that a m500 or a Clie can do that an M100 can't do. If you want to watch a movie on your PDA, go ahead. I need to get real productivity and performance for the $ out of whatever PDA I get. If I want to watch a movie I've got a DVD player in my laptop.


Get the m100 if you are cheap, get the m505 if you are not.
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 11:17:28 AM

This isn't rocket science.


RE: This is REALLY sad
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 12:08:41 PM

The Clie is compatible with a USB Macintosh if you get the Markspace (www.markspace.com) Clie Macpak. I use this on my Clie 300 and my brother uses it on his 710 he picked up Saturday at Frys San Diego. Cost is around $30.00.

PS-Sony actually will tell you to buy the Markspace software if you want to use a Clie on a MAC.

It's NOT about being cheap!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 2:08:24 PM

The point is everyone here is bickering over which PDA is the balls out best when NONE of the them are. They ALL have there weak points. I'm not buying ANY Palm now. I'm not alone here. Palm is on hard times because ONLY ubergeeks will tolerate their unimpressive line of PDAs. Give me a M505 with a hi-rez bright color screen, wireless capability to get MY email (not just palm.net), out of the box compatibility with Windows and Mac, add in a few whiz bang features like MP3 and then you might have a PDA worth of $450. Until then its all junk.

You are asking for features that you really don't need.
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 3:35:28 PM

nt

RE: This is REALLY sad
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 10:00:03 PM

Yeah why are we Palm OS people fighting?

Theres an Ipaq neard over there in the corner. He's mumbling some Ram/Rom/bits sampling/ geekspeak.

Lets all go after HIM. :)


RE: This is REALLY sad
Posted by: Chromosome @ 5/30/2001 1:24:11 PM

I love my m505--it's a better fit for my needs than the Sony. I also give a nod to Sony for developing the memory stick (SD/MMC) technology that Palm incorperated into the m50x. Most importantly, thanks to the Clie enthusiasts who developed the software (MSMount, McFile, and PowerRun) that really made the MMC work. It was even a Clie enthusiast who wrote a thread to walk us all through using these progerams last month! For those Clie lovers-enjoy your powerful new device! Functionally superior to my m505 but a little bigger. I respect you and appreciate you. Remember the words of Rodney King.. ;)

Chromosome

RE: This is REALLY sad
Posted by: CarlJ @ 5/30/2001 2:09:41 PM

I agree -- I love my new Clie; it's a better fit for my needs than the m505. I really like the m505 as well, but I am among those disappointed by the screen brightness. If the m505 screen works well for others (or perhaps you received units better/brighter than the demo models I saw), well, hey, that's cool, too.

As far as size goes, from my perspective it was, "hey, cool, the Clie is smaller than my IIIx", rather than, "gack, the Clie is bigger than a Vx". Sure, I'd love to have a Clie screen/backlight in an m505 body, but then I also want a 400mhz StrongARM, 32mb memory, flat-rate wireless Internet connectivity, and OS5... don't we all? :-)

It seems everyone is also arguing the relative merits of MemStick vs. SD/MMC vs. CF... (okay, well, granted, CF wins hands down on IO device support at this point, but you just can't build a CF-sized slot into a m505-sized handheld right now). But I see this as mostly a non-issue at this point, if you use the slot for external memory, and aren't buying / dragging around handfuls of the cards... I'm delighted by how transparently software that uses Palm's VFS API works between the two -- all the Clie MSMount-style software works on the m50x, and things advertised as supporting SD/MMC, like Palm's PalmReader (née PeanutReader), work just fine on my Clie/MemStick.

I'm looking forward to more programs supporting VFS, so you can, for example, keep a 100k dictionary app in main memory that reads from a 10mb database on a MS/SD/MMC/CF card. I'd love to see more document readers be able to directly read documents off the card (like PalmReader), without the use of MSMount or tricks to temporarily copy databases to RAM.


Reply to this

Call/Email Sonystyle and ask why pre-orders weren't shipped!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 2:52:36 PM

orderhelp@sonystyle.com

888-900-9872

Let them know they shouldn't treat their customers
this way. Ask why retails stores are selling them
when their pre-orders (with an announced ship date
of the 28th!!!) are still not shipping!


RE: Call/Email Sonystyle and ask why pre-orders weren't shipped!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 4:27:20 PM

If I recall correctly, Palm did the same thing for m505 (correct me if I am wrong).


RE: Call/Email Sonystyle and ask why pre-orders weren't shipped!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 5:59:36 PM

Does anyone know when will they start shipping the pre-orders?

RE: Call/Email Sonystyle and ask why pre-orders weren't shipped!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 9:37:11 PM

yeah - after everyone else gets theirs at retail.

Call them / Email them - let them know they shouldn't
treat their customers this way.

RE: Call/Email Sonystyle and ask why pre-orders weren't shipped!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 1:00:35 PM

Did you call Palm telling them that they shouldn't do that either?

RE: Call/Email Sonystyle and ask why pre-orders weren't shipped!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 4:42:27 PM

yes.

a pox on both their houses!
and on Staples too, for a $20 pre-order fee
that got you nothing.


Reply to this

Choices
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 4:35:26 AM

I am new to the world of PDA's following a IIIXE for Xmas last year. Like many of the commentators here, I quickly became an avid fan and tossed my self-printed paper planner. I am now trying to figure out which PDA to upgrade to. I need "power organizing" but I also appreciate "quality distractions" to fill the space between connecting flights. I do not however need to watch DVD's or view professional photographs on my PDA. Despite the critcism regarding the backlight, I was leaning towards the m505. I am happy for any pointers available for this newcomer and would like to know what other kinds of "plug-ins" are likely to be made available for the m505? Is it possible that a mp3 plug-in could produced in the same manner as PDA cameras? Is there a good site that has an easily digestible "head-to-head" comparison? These may be silly questions but greatful for any info.

Get a USA-Made m505. Use EasyView from PalmGear.com
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 9:04:17 AM

You will love it. Great upgrade from your III.



Reply to this

A wireless modem?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 2:13:52 PM

And when is the Sony Clié going to get a wireless modem? I got the Palm m505 because of Minstrel's support of the Palm platform. They've announced a wireless modem for the Palm m505, what good will the extra resolution be if you can't surf the web with the Clié? No thanks, but I'll take a Palm m505 with a Mistrel m500 and Blazer to surf the web wireless. The Sony Clié is just too limitied for me.


RE: A wireless modem?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 2:49:16 PM

I already have a wireless modem that works great with my Clie' ( as well as all of my Visors, Palms and PPCs). It is called a Nokia 8290 GSM phone. It works with any of my organizers via IR. It works with Palm's Mobile Internet Kit.

I was one of the original beta testers for OmniSky and used them until about three months ago. Bad software, bulky device and sporadic connections finally made me come to my senses. The phone makes a much better wireless modem.

Yeh! Who needs a Wireless modem, NOT ME!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 3:51:52 AM

Exactly what I was thinking,
I have a GSM cell phone with IR, which cost me nothing more than my phone contract, and it doubles as a modem for my PALMs.

RE: A wireless modem?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 10:24:45 AM

To the Wireless GSM phone users... What wireless service can you use the phones with in the U.S.? Sprint, Verizon, Voicestream, or others?
Thanks...
(Have a Palm V now, Still trying to decide between Clie N710C, Palm 505, or maybe, yes, even the iPaq)

RE: A wireless modem?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 11:05:53 AM

I am in San Jose, CA and use Cingular (formerly Pacific Bell).

Sprint Solution
Posted by: dstrauss @ 5/31/2001 2:02:30 PM

I just bought an all-in-one cable from www.thesupplynet.com which connects my Palm Vx to my Samsung 8500 cell phone. I enabled Wireless Web ($10 per month plus using cell minutes vs. $.39 per minute plus using minutes) and it works great for reaching email, but very slow for web surfing (19.2 +/-). You don't even need a dialup internet account, as you can quick connect to the Sprint net. For example, three short (one paragraph) email downloads and a single upload took 52 seconds (under the magic 1 minute useage). Not as seemless as an all-in-one phone, but for $50 for a cable, a lot cheaper.

RE: A wireless modem?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 3:48:53 PM

I don't consider a GSM phone a very simple or efficient solution for wireless access. The Minstrel m500 modem clips right onto the Palm and doesn't use any power from the Palm itself. IR communication for a sustained period will probably drain the battery a little faster. If there were a data cable solution it might be better, but you still have to fumble with two devices and a cable. The Mistrel adds only ounces to the back of the Palm and they clip together. Adding more weight to the Sony Clié would make it the heaviest PDA out there short of a PocketPC or laptop. We need some SIMPLE solutions for wireless access!

RE: A wireless modem?
Posted by: fleegle @ 5/31/2001 11:34:18 PM

"I am in San Jose, CA and use Cingular (formerly Pacific Bell)."

Which plan are you using? Does it use your voice minutes?

RE: A wireless modem?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 6/1/2001 2:03:39 AM

The way that Cingular works in CA is to add on a service called "PCS Data Connect". This is a second number that uses the data line for the phone. This means that it can also receive incoming data calls and faxes. On my phone it just pipes them out over IR if I accept the call.

The plan costs 4.99 per maonth and $.15 per minute of connect time. For me based on the 5 minutes or less per day that I averaged on the OmniSky, I am saving a huge amount of money. In the last four months, it has already paid for the phone. Connection strength is also much stronger than I ever got off of the OmniSky.


Reply to this

N710C at Best Buy!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 3:20:39 PM

For those of us east of Arizona with Fry's envy, I just wanted to let you know that I picked up my N710C at Best Buy this afternoon (5/30), so I would guess they should be all around the US by the end of the week.


RE: N710C at Best Buy!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 4:11:29 PM

Which Best Buy?


RE: N710C at Best Buy!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 5:02:45 PM

In a suburb of Chicago. Sorry for not mentioning the location.

RE: N710C at Best Buy!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 7:00:07 PM

Also in Mich, at the Dearborn Best Buy!

RE: N710C at Best Buy!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 10:36:09 AM

What is Best Buys return policy? I have an m505 that I got from OD and their return was 14 days

RE: N710C at Best Buy!
Posted by: LeshMan @ 5/31/2001 8:27:52 PM

I just went to the Best Buy on North May in Oklahoma City and they got two N710c's: one for demo purposes, and I bought the other one. They also let me trade in my old Palm Vx and get $280 towards the Clie!!!

RE: N710C at Best Buy!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 8:43:20 PM

North Olmsted, Ohio (suburb of Cleveland) has a few too. They just got it this afternoon. However their demo still isn't charged up.

RE: N710C at Best Buy!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 6/1/2001 10:43:04 PM

Thanks for the tip in North Olmsted. I traveled there tonight to see it in person from Medina, Oh. Unfortunately, the unit was not charged and I was not able to view the screen. Ugghhh!!! The salesperson suggested that I stop by tomorrow and he would try to remember to charge it overnight. I own a M505 and was very curious to see the screen and compare it to my unit. Personally, I'm very happy w/ my m505 and plan to keep it but just curious on what the Clie has to offer.


Reply to this

Best Buy in stock date
Posted by: Rob Zimmerman @ 5/31/2001 3:59:00 PM

The new Clie is now in stock in a few Best Buy stores. I work at Best Buy and my store has it..YES!!! I am buying it now it rules. By sunday it should be in all stores.
Reply to this

CASE
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 6:09:15 PM

What does the case with the clie look like? is it one of those slip on things or does it attach to the unit like the palms so you dont have to take the thing in and out?

Anyone have a picture?

Thanks

go the the web site you lazy F
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 6/1/2001 10:23:54 AM

nt



Reply to this

THE TOP INSTUMENT
Posted by: NARONGSAK @ 6/1/2001 9:53:19 AM

should have data of sony cin7
RE: THE TOP INSTUMENT
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 6/1/2001 10:57:47 AM

uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


WHAT ?

You speaka english ?


Reply to this


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Palm is officially DEAD as a retailer

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/1/2001 12:25:41 AM #
The slashed prices happening less than a month after product debuts shows they are finding it extremely difficult to sell the m50x series. Very few people are now saying these are good PDAs for the (original bloated) price.

Palm ripped off gullible consumers for years with ridiculously overpriced handhelds that made them up to 50% profit per sale. Now they are going to wake up to the grim reality that the competition is making much better hardware than Palm is. How long do they think their former supporters are going to keep on claiming that the slightly smaller size of the m50x series makes them worth the tradeoff?

Goodbye Palm. It serves you right, you greedy pigs.

RE: Palm is officially DEAD as a retailer
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/1/2001 3:06:33 AM #
For years, Palm provided products that were sold AT PRICES PEOPLE WERE WILLING TO PAY. That makes them greedy pigs? You want it = you pay for it.

Hmm. Every Handspring device I have seen looks cheap. Handspring is innovative? A propritary expansion slot? Innovative? Pocket PC? Can you say bloated? I don't need 233mhz in my pocket...is that thing sheilded or is it frying my nuts ?

Come on. Palm is not dead.

RE: Palm is officially DEAD as a retailer
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/1/2001 7:24:57 AM #
I doubt you have anything to fry. Do you work for Palm? Sounds like it.

Yes, they sold for years at whatever the market could bear, but were dumb enough to license their OS to people that know how/are willing to provide better hardware. Watch Palm's sales take a major nosedive this summer.

Palm really is dead as a retailer, and they can't survive by just selling their OS to other hardware makers. I would be interesting in hearing from ANYONE that can give some reasons why they think Palm will be a viable company in a year. The only thing they have going for them right now is a relatively large installed user base and name recognition. Didn't Apple have similar features before they almost went bankrupt? And I doubt Bill Gates will save Palm like he did Apple!

RE: Palm is officially DEAD as a retailer
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/1/2001 8:09:38 AM #
I just hope a stable company buys Palm and develops the OS. Palm rested on its laurels too long and ended up stagnating. I'm still amazed by how quickly they became obsolete as a manufacturer - their directors must be in a state of shock.

Palm = Apple 1995? Not exactly
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/1/2001 10:51:35 AM #
First, Steve Jobs, not Bill Gates saved Apple. Apple had TONS of $ in reserves in '95, they just didn't have a direction. Palm 2001 is similar, except that they don't have a Steve Jobs...someone who has a vision of how to take the company to the next level. Incremental changes to hardware won't cut it- just like it didn't work for Apple. Apple literally had to reinvent itself, and continues to to this day. We haven't seen such efforts from Palm. Maybe Palm OS 5 will mark its re-birth. The question is, will Palm be an independant company then, or will a company like Apple snatch it up.

RE: Palm is officially DEAD as a retailer
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/1/2001 1:29:00 PM #
You might find this article interesting especially the comment on marketshare:

http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0106/01.palm.shtml

m505

Travis @ 6/1/2001 3:15:39 PM #
I've had my m505 for a few weeks, and yes the screen is not as bright as my old iiic. But, it's smaller size lets me carry it in my pocket.

HAPPY WITH MY-505 IN KC

not enough :oP

ryhunter@onebox.com @ 6/1/2001 6:21:50 PM #
i'm happy as long as it's not below the $170 that i paid for the P.Vx that i bought from staples (1 for me & 1 for my friend)

personally, i have my eyes set on the handera 330, but the P.Vx is just a cost saving tactic to tide me over till the cost goes down for the h330.

M505

sinbad :)] @ 6/1/2001 8:40:16 PM #
Support of da 505...well I own a IIIxe (proudly I may add)but will saddy upgrade. just as I did from my III-so anyonomous whats the point arguing? Do we keep our 386's or get the new AMDs? Scooters or Cars? Im in the NG's as rocky-the-flying-squirrerl right now. otherwise I' b sinbab warez daddy-king of the download gaLaxay :)]
Stay away from AMD JUNK.
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/1/2001 9:19:19 PM #
Buy QUALITY INTEL INSIDE.

RE: M505
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/2/2001 1:47:16 AM #
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 4:13:41 PM

I saw it here first, it seems to be a new bulletin board.

http://www.infosync.no/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi

RE: battery life
Posted by: Cheetah @ 5/28/2001 1:40:04 AM

interesting charts. Shows 505 with and without backlight on vs. PPC in a battery test.

505 with backlight on has similiar battery life then the other PPC. But without backlight, the 505 has over TWICE the battery life.

This is exactly the point! 505 does not need backlight on all the time (not in direct sunlight and in good indoor light) therefore the battery life is much better then PPC in the practical world.

I love my 505 and only use backlight when in poor lighting. In the office the screen is fine without the backlight.

I would also say that the 505 with the backlight on in a dark room (e.g. movie theater) is 1000% better then the reverse backlight of the Palm Vx.


Reply to this

Clie N710C availability
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 5:11:04 PM

As of 05/26 1:10 PM

Sunnyvale -- Out (confirmed by sale person)
Palo Alto -- Out (confirmed by sale person)
San Jose -- around 6 in the shelf (they have 12 in stock originally)

RE: Clie N710C availability
Posted by: CarlJ @ 5/26/2001 9:52:09 PM

As of 05/26 around noon, San Diego Frys:

I believe there were four in stock when I first walked past the shelf to go look at the demo model; when I came back to pick up a box there were three left (including the one I took), then when I walked past 30 minutes later before getting in the checkout line, the shelf was bare :-)

RE: Clie N710C availability
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 5:42:53 AM

The Fremont Fry's is also carrying them, however when you call them and ask to see if they are in stock they won't know what you are talking about. Try giving them the item number: 3011669 they can look it up in their computers that way.

They do have it on display for those who want to compare the m505 screen and the Clie screen. I must admit, I've been playing with mine for several hours and it rocks. :)


Reply to this

Great Photos
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 7:27:01 PM

Check these out!!

These are comparing the IPAQ, CLIE, and Palm m505

http://briefcase.yahoo.com/dreamwave6


Clie is 2x thickness of m505.
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 8:23:27 PM

http://y42.briefcase.yahoo.com/dreamwave6


RE: Great Photos
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 11:08:56 AM

The Clie is twice as thick as the m505, but it's not as wide. It actually fits in the typical jeans pocket BETTER.

RE: Great Photos
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 12:44:57 PM

Its thinker, yes, but not TWICE as think! The clie is thinner then two m505 stacked on each other.
m505 .5" Clie .66" [505 x 2 = 1 INCH]

RE: Clie is 2x thickness of m505.
Posted by: CarlJ @ 5/29/2001 6:54:04 PM

The Clie is 5/8 inch thick, the m505 is 1/2 inch. That's a difference of 1/8 inch, or 25 PERCENT, not "twice as thick". The m505 is also about 1/8 inch shorter, and 3/8 inch WIDER than the Clie.

I pre-ordered the m505 (the night before they were announced); I cancelled when they started showing up in the stores and I saw first-hand how dim the screen was. I went to see the new Clie on Saturday, not intending to buy it, just to look... and ended up plunking down my money and taking one home (this, after comparing the "floor model" extensively against the m505 sitting next to it; I had a friend with me, she wanted to know where the brightness control was on the m505).

The Clie is smaller than my old Palm IIIx (a teensy bit shorter, 3/8 inch narrower, the same thickness), and has by far the best screen ever seen on a PalmOS handheld. I'm running with the backlight at about 25 percent -- at 100 percent, you could use it as a flashlight. At 320x320, the screen is simply breathtaking, and at 160x160, there is _no_ trace of the dreaded "black grid".

If the m505 had the Clie's backlight (I'm not talking about the hi-res screen, mind you, just the bright, adjustable, backlight), I would have gotten the m505 instead (weeks ago) -- I *like* the m505, it's sleek and sexy, and will no doubt be more widely supported. But, to me, the whole point of color is to make the information on the screen easier to read, and I found the m505's dim screen to be an impediment, not a benefit.

Folks, it's time to stop all the bickering; wait until you have a chance to compare the Clie and m505 side-by-side in a store somewhere, and *then* decide which is best for *you*.

RE: Great Photos
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 1:04:56 AM

If we bicker the only one who wins is Bill Gates.


Reply to this

The new Sony
Posted by: Edd @ 5/26/2001 8:05:14 PM

Hi, I just went to Fry's in Manhattan Beach to see the new color Clie and when we were there, we beamed the Photosuite and some pictures from our M505 just so we can compare them side by side. The resolution on the new Sony is awesome, not only the fonts look smoother on the Sony but also the pictures. There are no jagged edges on the fonts (not that I can see). The only thing is Sony can only display 256 colors and the Palm has more (16 bits).

When comparing side by side you can clearly see the Palm has more richer color display (but dimmer). Supposedly, the Japanese version of the Clie has more features than the one imported here. :(

Hey Edd,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 8:54:11 PM

quote from Edd: "Supposedly, the Japanese version of the Clie has more features than the one imported here. :("

What features are you talking about?

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: Edd @ 5/26/2001 9:31:27 PM

According to this Sony website in Japan http://www.sony.co.jp/sd/ProductsPark/Consumer/PEG/PEG-N700C/tv.html You're supposed to be able to download and watch TV on your Clie. I didn't see that mention anywhere on the USA box at Fry's.

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 9:36:29 PM

Go to www.genericmedia.com and download the app that Sony is packaging with it's Japanese CLIE. Get the Palm movie player and their movie maker. If you already have a TV-tuner card and WinVCR or something like that, you should be able to do it. Of course, you could just go buy this VAIO desktop from Sony specifically designed to record television programs instead of using your own TV-tuner card and WinVCR: http://www.sonystyle.com/vaio/digitalstudio/index.html

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 9:41:40 PM

Here ya' go...direct link: http://www.genericmedia.com/news_pr09.html

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: Edd @ 5/26/2001 9:49:40 PM

Thanks. Now let me go return my M505 :) while it still within 14 days return period at Staples.

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 9:59:30 PM

Remember, to have the Japanese have with their CLIE's, you'll have to have a large harddrive to capture a 1-hour long TV show or a really big one to capture a 2-hour long movie, then you'll have to have a much higher capacity Memory Stick than the 8MB one that comes with the CLIE. The 64MB Memory Stick goes for around $100 on eBay and the newer 128MB Memory Sticks go for around $200. These prices will come down eventually but as you can see it is going to be an expensive proposition to make the CLIE a portable movie player, which is EXACTLY what I plan to use mine for :)

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 10:26:24 PM

Try this out !!!

Using a program called HRCapt (DA Program)
located at:
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/fairy/chimer...OthersPalm.html
(it's in japanese),
I made several screen captures of my N710C Clie in various modes and pictures.
THe program captures Hi resolution as well as low, i've posted the pictures at:

http://members.nbci.com/nxt/clie710...0screencap.html

and yes, this IS a REAL screen capture from n710c

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 10:44:38 PM

Can't get your page up

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 10:44:38 PM

Can't get your page up

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 11:10:31 AM

Also, the nipponese clie doesn't play MP3. The American one does.

MP3
Posted by: Edd @ 5/27/2001 11:56:46 AM

Hmm.. I thought it does according to this page:

http://www.sony.co.jp/sd/ProductsPark/Consumer/PEG/PEG-N700C/music.html

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:23:55 PM

I realize the Sony has Mp3, Attrac, etc. play back; however, will these movies be encoded with sound via gMovie Maker and can they be played back with sound on gMovie Player?

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:25:44 PM

One other question, how big would say an hour long show encoded in MPEG-1 wind up. In other words, how much could you fit on a 128 meg memory stick?

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:44:45 PM

I saw the new Sony at a local Fry's and was impressed. The size and weight between the 505 and the N710c were comparable, one's a little wider, the other a little thicker. The screen was obviously sharper on the Sony, but when comparing the color, the Palm was actually richer. I was surprised. The brightness is great on the Clie, but the colors look washed out. Is there any way of increasing the contrast?

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 9:00:01 PM

Nope!

RE: 1-hr mpeg
Posted by: vgz @ 5/28/2001 1:12:37 AM

>>One other question, how big would say an hour long show encoded in MPEG-1 wind up. In other words, how much could you fit on a 128 meg memory stick?

It would depend on the frame rate but I have several mpeg files and a 50minute 17 sec mpeg is 489.6 MB. Good luck getting that on a memorystick.


Matt

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 3:07:02 PM

The Japanese 700 plays ONLY ATRAC3 format on white copy-protection memory sticks.

The American 710 plays ATRAC3 (bleah!) or MP3, and it can store MP3s on the cheaper, non-encrypted blue sticks.

Matt...gMovie Maker converts PC video files to gMovie format
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 7:49:34 PM

with sound. The gMovie Maker reformats the video to 320x320 resolution. A decent quality picture at a decent frame rate will get you about 1 minute of video with sound for every 1MB on the MS. Thus, a 128MB MS will let you watch a 2-hour movie.

RE: The new Sony
Posted by: eipangan @ 5/28/2001 9:27:04 PM

Starting June 18, users of the Japanese model can now download MediaPlayer 2.0, which can play MP3 off the blue stick. The download is priced at 2,000 yen but is on sale for the first few months - 1,500 yen.

Screenshots? Bah!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 6:54:51 PM

Ummm... You could put a bullet through the front of the Clie and the screenshots would look the same. Those do not show what the Clie's display does, it shows us what our computer moniors do.


Reply to this

Clie is big!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 10:48:55 PM

Holy cow! That thing is a monster! I though it would be closer to the palm m505, but it's beast! Be prepared to have a heavy, metal object (basically an iPaq in size) in your pocket if you get one of these. Screen is ok though, but not as vivid as described.


RE: Clie is big!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:42:04 AM

What do you base your comments about screen quality on??


RE: Clie is big!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 11:11:19 AM

Nope. It's nowhere near as big as an iPaq.

It's thicker than an m505, but not as thick as a Visor Prism. And because of the reduced width, it's very pocketable.

RE: Clie is big!
Posted by: TvM @ 5/27/2001 8:06:49 PM

It is plastic

RE: Clie is big!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 11:06:40 PM

It's NOT plastic!! It's metal... at least the front is, not sure about the back. You people should stop makig all these statements if you don't have anything to back it up.

RE: Clie is big!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 2:28:59 AM

Yes, stop those crap comments without proof! I own a Clie N700C, and having it put side by side with the iPaq, the size difference is great! Whoever says that they are the same, basically, you have neither seen both devices, or maybe never even seen them before!

Yes, its thicker than the 505, but its way thinner than Prism. Its in between. With the case on, m505 will be as thick as the Clie (with the flip cover on)

ON the other hand, the Clie is narrower, so it appears smaller, and it is thus very pocketable (in the pants pocket, not the shirt)


Reply to this

reseting
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/26/2001 11:12:35 PM

how do i do a hard reset on my new clie ?


RE: reseting
Posted by: Shane @ 5/27/2001 6:05:57 AM

Your Clie come with a book called Instructions. If you turn to the first few pages you will find the Contents. If you look for resetting in there and turn to the right page it will explain how to do it.


RE: reseting
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:43:10 AM

LOL!! The questions some people ask! Hmm..2-10 hrs to get a reply to a post, vs 4 mins to look it up in the manual......decisions, decisions....


Reply to this

Here are the Links
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 12:27:29 AM

This is nXt btw, Mike Cane earlier posted some of my websites, unfortunately Geocities killed my account because I had some files!
The new pages are at the following

Mini Review:
http://members.nbci.com/nxt/clie710/710review.html

Screen Captures: <-- Must See
http://members.nbci.com/nxt/clie710/710screencap.html

Digital Camera Pictures:
http://members.nbci.com/nxt/clie710/cliepicture.html

RE: Here are the Links
Posted by: mikecane @ 5/27/2001 1:31:37 PM

Thanks, nXt! I should have read the board completely before I posted the other links above. These new ones seem to work.


RE: Here are the Links
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 10:11:40 PM

Thanks so much nXt for the screen capture pics. I was hoping that somewhere on the net would be some screen captures. Please add more when you have time.

I see you enlarged a 160x160 pic to the size of the 320x320 pic for comparison, but can you do it the other way around please? Reduce the hi res to the same size as low res so they can be compared that way too.

Thanks again! Good work.

RE: Here are the Links
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 3:56:23 AM

When enlarging the 160x160 screenshots in Photoshop, you should use Nearest Neighbor interpolation instead of Bicubic. This will accurately represent pixel-doubling.


Reply to this

Size!
Posted by: Cheetah @ 5/27/2001 6:22:01 AM

Hmmmm...more vibrant screen (although not 16bit), BUT much thicker, longer, and heavier!

That's the point of the 505. It has color yet retains it's small size and good battery life.

I've used my 505 for two weeks now and love it.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 6:50:36 AM

I agree about the size. Much as I tried to like the iPaq, the size issue was a killer for me. I use my m505 alot and just could not see carrying an iPaq like device around all day.

It may be fine for those who carry it from desk to meeting, to desk and home. But as a sales professional who lives with it - no way. People forget that is what Palm had in mind when it balanced the features of the device.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:47:08 AM

It may be thicker, but many new owners have said it fits the hand better than the 505

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 11:12:40 AM

Check it out before you write it off as bulky. The size is actually very good in actual use.

RE: Size!
Posted by: Edd @ 5/27/2001 12:02:06 PM

It fits comfortably in my hand and it slightly narrower than my M505 (so that you can use your thumb to operate the jog dial). Then new jog dial now has the back button (the monochrome one didn't have that) and it comes with PowerJog.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 12:50:20 PM

I have used it, and IT IS BIGGER, period. It is twice and thick, grab a ruler and check, I did. Yes it is slightly less in width, but does not make up for the depth. My PalmV was in a titanium hard case and I had it in my front pocket always, in the hard case it was still thinner than the clie, now I have the m505, and size wise it win hands down. Nothing fits in my pocket better.

Just my opinion. To each his own.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 12:58:42 PM

what is the point of carrying it around and the screen is annoying to look at?

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 1:23:06 PM


Hee hee hee

I love how we always get of the subject ,turn things around and make it us against them .LOL =)This makes me laugh alot.

Very antertaining .

Thanx

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 1:25:01 PM

What is the point of having a beautiful screen to look at if you never carry it around with you because it is too bulky?

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 1:52:29 PM

hahahah, palm company is dying and their customers are trashing each other products, PPC won heheheheeh I like it

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 2:27:24 PM

The CLIE's thickness is .03" thinner than the very portable visor deluxe form factor. The CLIE is not a brick. You people are a bunch of whinning, anorexic wimps!!

Hey, two 3x5 cards would really dissapear in your pants pocket. Just carry a few of those around and quit whining.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 7:39:28 PM

Clie thickness is 1.68 in, width is 7.1 in
M505 thickness is 1.27 in, width is 7.874 in

And when you are holding a PDA, the important parameters are the width and height (where width is more important than height). Simple math for calulcating the length to fit into your palm

width for Clie is 7.1 in
width for M505 is 7.874 in
The difference is 0.774 in (Clie win)

thickness for Clie is 1.68 in
thickness for M505 is 1.27 in
The difference is .41 in (M505 win)

width + 2 * thickness for Clie is 10.46 in
width + 2 * thickness for M505 is 10.414 in

The difference is 0.046 in (M505 win).

If you calculate the perimeter

2*width + 2 * thickness for Clie is 17.56 in
2*width + 2 * thickness for M505 is 18.288 in

The difference is 0.728 in (Clie win).

Of course, volume wise, Clie is still a little larger, but it is not as what some people claimed it to be BULKIER, HEAVIER. Sounds like Clie is way too big but it is not.

Besides the weight difference is only 20 g, if you put an MP3 plyer in M505, see how much that gonna weight?

M505 is definitely a loser compared to Clie (except for the 20g weight differnce and slightly larger form factor), now many people have seen the amaing screen and have learned that the Clie width is actually much narrower than M505, the proud M505 owners are whining about the thickness and weight? And that is the only valuable thing left for M505?

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:31:42 PM

Oops, the important parameters should be width and "thickness", not height.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:33:03 PM

I think the biggest loser of all is the person who computed all that. Do you plan to keep your Clie in your pocket protector?

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:50:04 PM

I have Clie N710C here with me, it fits into shirt pocket well. Have you seen the Clie with your own eyes and hold it with your own palm actually?

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 10:02:11 PM

I would love to see someone put a couple of 3 by 5 index cards in their shirt pocket, I can barely understand putting a m505 in, even if it does fit. Putting a Clie in your shirt pocket (as I have seen the size at a OD with a demo unit) would be the epitome of dorkiness.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 11:47:14 PM

>I think the biggest loser of all is the person who computed all that. Do you plan to keep your Clie in your pocket protector?<

He was just giving facts to support his claims of the CLie's size not speculations like everyone else

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 10:15:08 AM

Who ever calculated that is WRONG "thickness for Clie is 1.68 in thickness for M505 is 1.27 in" My m505 is only .5 IN thick!!! the m505 is not over 1 and a quarter inches!!!

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 12:26:16 PM

That would be 1.27 cm
0.5 inches x 2.54 cm/inch = 1.27 inches


RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 12:27:55 PM

Now I've done it:
0.5 inches x 2.54 cm/inch = 1.27 cm

Sorry

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 1:19:57 PM

why don't you guys just wait and hold both of them in your palm and then determine instead of doing all these silly calculations.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 3:09:27 PM

Geezus Christmas, children, GET A LIFE.

If you're so insecure that you have to trash other peoples' choices to justify your own, I pity you.

(And as for the "PPC win" comment, under 10% markeshare is winning? Must have made that calculation on an original Pentium. :-)

(Now see, you've lowered me to your level.. :-)

Biggest losers
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 2:06:45 AM

>I think the biggest loser of all is the person who computed all that. Do you plan to keep your Clie in your pocket protector?<

Actually, I believe the biggest losers are all those people that are calling the Clie "too big to carry around", the Clie "is as big as am iPAQ" and "the Clie is twice as thick as the m505". These are obviously not true. I think the motives behind people who post these comments feels so threaten by the Clie because it's better than their m505.

Come-on people, it's a handheld!! I understand if you are posting a legitimate complaint, but purposely making false statements just because there's a better product?!?!? That's the definition of a loser!!

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 10:22:53 AM

Actually, you have it backwards. People did nothing but bash the m505 for its dim screen, and hyped up the Clie to unrealistic expectations.

Now that the Clie is out, and people can compare them, the m505 holds its own against the Clie. Unless you want a brick sized MP3 player included, that is.

It is the Clie owners who now feel they have to justify their purchases, and will lash out against anyone who has something good to say about the m505.

Don't even start with the "its got a 320x320 screen..." arguement. Palm will integrate a high rez scrren into its future offerings when it feels that the processor can handle the higher resolution without slowing the hanheld down to a crawl. Plus they will give us high resolution AND 16 bit color in the future.

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 12:27:12 PM

>Don't even start with the "its got a 320x320
>screen..." arguement. Palm will integrate a high rez
>scrren into its future offerings when it feels that
>the processor can handle the higher resolution
>without slowing the hanheld down to a crawl. Plus
>they will give us high resolution AND 16 bit color in
>the future.

Actually, YOU are really searching....

The majority of the feedback from actual Clie N710C owners have been positive as are the reviews from creditable from major tech. news sources. So there's no need to justify the Clie.

There is, however, a need to justify why the hell did someone pay $450 for an m505, while for $50 more they could've gottenso much more.

Oh, by the way...the Clie has a hardware video accelerator that speeds the 320x320 resolution up. From people who have tested the Clie, they obtain a benchmark of 207%!!! That's the speed of a visor platinum. The benchmark of the m505 was benchmarked at around 150%. So not only does the Clie have 320x320 resolution, it's actually faster than the m505.

And...speaking of the new processor...did you read that the new ARM processor will have built-in memory stick compatibilty?

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 3:26:05 PM

It is definitely not a legitimate comparison to benchmark 2 PDA's running different versions of the same OS. Clie=3.52 m505=4.0. Visor-3.5+

RE: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 4:09:35 PM


So you mean 4.0 is slower than 3.5?

Correction: Size!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 4:16:37 PM

Oops, that should be 1.27 cm for m505 thickness and 1.68 cm for Clie thickness. Sorry about the mistake!!

A benchmark is a benchmark
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 1:01:15 PM

>It is definitely not a legitimate comparison to >benchmark 2 PDA's running different versions of the >same OS. Clie=3.52 m505=4.0. Visor-3.5+

What difference does that make? Since it is the same OS but different versions, the benchmark 2.0 is compatible, that's all that matters. If look at the relative speed data on the benchmark, it listed both machines running Palm OS 3.2 and 3.5, aren't those different version of the same OS?


Reply to this

Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 12:36:06 PM

I’ve looked at all these pics of the Ipaq, Clie and M505 screen quality. I like all three machines if you could believe that but, I was willing to sacrifice some features for the reason that I value size the most…Said that, I need help to understand Why isn’t possible to have a contrast setting on the m505? Since it seams that the Ipaq and the Clie have similar types of screens???(Lit the same way so, it seams to me)

Can some one help me to have a better understanding how the clie or I paq were able to accomplish this and not palm…?

Thank you
730…=O)~


RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 1:16:59 PM

Great Question:
I too would like to know the answer Ed can you help with this one?Thanx


RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 2:41:53 PM

This was done on purpose in order to optimize battery life and the color screen.

If users were able to adjust the brightness, then the battery life would suffer and folks would be unhappy with the results.

RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:40:16 PM

Do you actually believe what you are talking about yourself? "If there is a button for brightness, then the battery life will be shorter", you think people are idiot, they don't know how to turn the brightness down when there are enough lights? This is ridiculous!!

RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:57:48 PM

I would have to agree!
That was a pretty dumb statement.
That the consumers meaning us would not be smart enough to know when to turn off the contrast button which would shorten battery life and palm based there decision on that.
Good one lets hear another.
I need a laugh.


RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 10:02:58 AM

To answer your question, yes I believe in what I am talking about.

Let me answer your question with a question. Why do you think there is no contrast option? Do you think it was an oversight on Palm's part? Do you really think Palm "forgot" to put in an option which has been in all the other palms before this one? I don't think so.
So if they didn't forget, and they didn't include it, the answer that best fits the situation is they set it for the optimal combination of battery life and screen brightness.

If you disagree with me, why not ask Palm? I'm sure by now they have received calls from folks asking how to adjust the contrast.

RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 11:31:14 AM

Let me use a question to answer your question too. What will you explain if Palm put a brightness control in the next verson of m505? "Oh!!! Palm listens to the customer?"

I have dropped by Frys many times to look at different PDAs, everytime when people looked at m505, most of them tried to find the brightness control to see if they could make it brighter.

If Palm decided not to include the brightness adjustment because of the reason you mentioned, I guess that is a big mistake!!

RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 1:56:17 PM

I will have to agree with the comments above you do have some valid points. Re: reasons that m505 did not come with a contrast button but if some third party app would come out to be able to change the setting of brightness-if this is at all possible he or she would make Bank! I would purchase it! In a heart beat.

RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 2:03:07 PM

"What will you explain if Palm put a brightness control in the next verson of m505? "Oh!!! Palm listens to the customer?""

The next version of the m505 may very well have a contrast control. It may also have a soft graffiti screen, 320x320 resolution and/or a better battery. And yes it would be due to customer demand. These are all hardware changes and some or all will probably be included in upcoming models. I don't think you will be seeing a contrast button in the current OS however.

RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 2:20:21 AM

IF there's a next version of the m505!!! Palm is sinking fast. They are "re-thinking" their strategy. They might pull out of the high-end market and focus on the low-end m100's.

RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 9:51:26 AM

Rather than letting us just speculate about Palm's reasoning, someone from Palm should step forward and explain the choices that they made with the M505. I have seen some very good posts from Handera explaining the design tradeoffs they made on their new model (color vs. black and white, etc.). In the absence of any statement from Palm we can only assume they think we're too dumb to handle a brightness control.

RE: Not to get off the subject but,
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 4:04:16 PM

I guess it is due to the energy crisis!! So user can not adjust the brightness to drain power fast!!

Great idea, now the federal government should order all the lamp manufacturer to make a fix lamp so that the energy deficiency can be alleviated!


Reply to this

Size
Posted by: Volcano @ 5/27/2001 1:58:08 PM

I have had my M505 for 3 weeks now and use it for many houre everyday. I am a Operations Mgr. for PepsiCo and have many contacts, direct reporte, to do lists, e-mail, word docs, spreadsheets etc. that I must have at my finger tips instantly. The 505 packs it all. Every time I take it out of my pocket, I am still amazed by the size (absoulutly small). I had heard a lot about the sub-par screen and got caught up in the "hysteria" and actually went back to BEST BUY to trade it cor an IPAQ but the IPAQ was too big, the software too "awkward" and actually the M505 screen was to-me sharper under many more light conditions w/o fumbling w/contrast controls. I kept my 505 and I am still impressed w/it everyday!
RE: Size
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 2:52:23 PM

I totally agree; morningstar1844@hotmail.com
For the size you cannot beat it!


Volcano, Pepsi & Palmtop-pro
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 4:38:30 PM

Hi Volcano!

We are the premium mobile computing hardcopy magazine in Europe and would love to print your impression as manager at pepsico on the m505.

Please contact me directly:
Boris Michael von Luhovoy
publishing editor
Palmtop-pro magazine

bmv.luhovoy@nextra.at

for more information on us please visit:
www.palmtop-pro.com/index1.htm

(sorry folks - german only)

Please see also our story on the polarstern icebreaker & palm on:
www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=1923


RE: Size
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 3:11:42 PM

But why discuss the admittedly cool m505 in a Clie topic?

As for Pepsi, could you PLEASE do something to make Diet Pepsi not taste so crappy? I hate it when restaurants give the "no coke, pepsi" line. :-)

RE: M505
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 4:22:49 PM

Because M505 owners are having a hard time right now. They have to keep justifying their M505 purchase to themselves. I think the more choices we have the better. But some M505 owners keep trolling any Clie' article with disparaging remarks about a PDA that most have never seen in real life.

Nobody wins with less choices, we all lose.


Reply to this

Size
Posted by: seaaa @ 5/27/2001 3:14:11 PM

I agree with you Vol. my M505 is great. When ever I use it at work (constantly) it gets "oos and ahhs", awesome size, incredible expandbility ans color. I take it absoulutly every where, hiking, workouts, shopping and forget it's there. My brother works for Micro soft and they all have IPAQs, I beat him hands down pulling up basic applications faster while his IPAQ gets hung up on programs he accidently hit etc. Also he often does'nt have his IPAQ ("Too big to lug around!").
Reply to this

battery life?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 4:11:38 PM

Who knows the battery life of these three devices: Ipaq, clie710c and 505? Now I am more concerning about this rather than the size and screen quality. Different people have different preferences, for meI prefer a smaller size device, although I envy the screen quality of the clie. Yes I am a proud m505 owner.


RE: battery life?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 4:51:37 PM

Don't envy the screen of the Clie, you can only look at it for about 2-3 hours a charge running applications. It's not worth the bulkiness, the 256-color display, and they low battery life. Go with the m505, it treats you right.


RE: battery life?(Clie N700C and m505)
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 5:11:06 PM

As a author of BatteryBench, I tested both devices
(CLIE is japanese model N700C)

I tested both in normal mode of BatteryBench( it runs 1 second
and only display for 9 seconds)

N700C
backlight off : 16 hours
backlight minimum: 10 hours
backlight maximum: 6 hours

m505
backlight off : 15 hours
backlight on : 6.5 hours

FYI
m100: 40 hours
HandEra 330: 36 hours


YAMADA Tatsushi
Hacker dude-san
http://simple-palm.com


RE: battery life?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 8:46:14 PM

"It can only last 2-3 hours",

that is with playing mp3 and front light on. without front light, it last 11 hours for playing MP3. I think for normal usage, it should be even longer.

RE: battery life?
Posted by: JET8810 @ 5/27/2001 9:31:25 PM

wow...the handera gets 36 hours of battery life?!?!?! Is that just looking up adresses or games...also, using a cf modem and keyboard would drain the battery much.,..quicker...right?

RE: battery life?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 10:47:29 PM

> HE330, 36 hours with CF modem?

No, but you can plug the 330 into the wall and run it for as long as you like.

Bob


RE: battery life?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 2:43:30 AM

Clie lasts only 2 - 3 hours?
Another misinformed idiot making unfounded comments.
The clie can last as long as the m505, my dear friends.
I have used both, tried both.
Unless you play MP3 with the screen on, it will drain in 3 hours, else typical usage will last you at least one week. (1 hour a day on average)

RE: battery life?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 2:10:48 AM

Obviously you are another idiot who doesn't read people's comments in full. Why not scroll up and read again what he wrote?

RE: battery life!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 3:52:57 AM

After conducting real world tests we found that the battery life of a Palm is much longer as in any statistic.

The test results shown above are most probably conducted in a continuous mode e.g. running a program and measuring continuos until the battery is exhausted.
This puts on a battery an artificial (not a real world) drain. Thought there is no other standard to measure it has to be seen what ist is: As very rough comparing tool somehow probably ok or not (depends how you look at the data), it shows something but holds no water in real use as it reflects not the day to day PDA life.

Anyhow – the test as conducted here has probably some meaning, as there is no other known proper way to measure – even thought this does not reflect the real world performance.

In real world you flip the Palm open, look up your data and close down. This gives the battery the ability to recreate and gain when in off mode.

Our (out of the stomach and not 100% replicable) tests have shown, that the M500 runs up to about 21 hours in real world with light of – But that’s something widely depending on the individual users individual behaviour. So it is safe to say that the Palm has not only a very good real world performance but a superior one.

Like a RollsRoyce vendor answers a question to the horsepower of a Silvercloud with a disgusted but conclusive:

Enough power in any situation ... Sir'

Boris
Palmtop-pro Magazine
publishing editor
www.palmtop-pro.com


Reply to this

16bit M505 vs 8bit Clie
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 9:50:39 PM

I think people who compare these two don't realize there ain't much difference to the naked eye. As ED have reviewed, he cannot tell the difference from a 256 color picture and one of 16bit color. Maybe this is due to the cloudyness that some m505 owners have reported.

Some other people believe that having 16bit color will achieve better pictures. But if you think about it, 256 color does produce color banding, but it is at a much higher resolution (320x320). While m505 has 16bit colors, yet the pixelation of the machine will cause some color banding. In turn, they will both achieve the same colors, but the one with higher resolution will give better details and sharper image.

However m505 is still a great machine given the size of it with a built in expansion slot. If size is what you need, go for a m505, but if you want something new and innovative, with a great screen, get the clie.

Lastly, some has compared the iPaq with the new clie. I say the only comparison that you can really do is the screen itself. I've seen the pictures of the 3 machines and I say Clie has the best of the bunch. and best of all, its PalmOS. Now all i need is a place close to Canada so that I can drive down to get myself a Clie.

RE: 16bit M505 vs 8bit Clie
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 12:13:38 AM

Excellent point. I have a Clie and a Prism, I have to say even my Prism has 16 bit color, the resolution kills it. The Clie's 4 times higher resolution magnifies the visual effect. Now I suspect Palm and Handspring will push similar product given the overhelmingly good reputation of the Clie N-710C. Lets wait and see.


RE: 16bit M505 vs 8bit Clie
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 10:50:52 AM

Don't let the pictures fool you. The color on the Clie was not as intense as expected. Some have said that the colors on the m505 look milky. Having held the Clie in my hand, the colors are also "milky" and washed out. They are sharper though. Sharper is good. Washed out is not.

RE: 16bit M505 vs 8bit Clie
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 11:26:18 AM

Compared with Prism, the color of Clie is washed out, compared with, m505 color is also washed out (and because of the frontlight of m505 is not adjustable and very dim, the color looks more washed out than Clie, however, the m505 has more color but very dull).


Reply to this

VII
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2001 11:23:52 PM

can someone tell me if i can use AOL instant messenger on a VIIx. thanx


RE: VII
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 12:28:25 AM

i guess


RE: VII
Posted by: bcombee @ 5/28/2001 4:16:13 AM

There is a gateway PQA to send AOL IMs to other users, but you cannot receive instant messages, since the Palm VII/VIIx is not constantly connected -- it only gets data when you explicitly make a request.

RE: VII
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 11:28:21 AM

but couldnt you make a request constantly say like once every 5 seconds

RE: VII
Posted by: bcombee @ 5/29/2001 12:45:56 AM

Turn around time for a single request tends to be five to ten seconds. Having the device continually poll the server would run down the transmitter antenna in a few minutes, and drain the AAA's after an hour or so of usage.

Its just not feasible until a push-capable Palm, like the rumored m700, is available.


Reply to this

"Backlist" Graffiti area?
Posted by: jasonheyd @ 5/28/2001 9:34:42 AM


Anyone know if the Graffiti area of the N710C is backlist, as it is with the m505?


RE: "Backlit" Graffiti area ..
Posted by: jasonheyd @ 5/28/2001 9:36:12 AM


Meant "backLIT" not "list". :)


RE: Backlit
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 10:11:22 AM

No, at least the 700 is not. My guess the 710 is the same way.

RE:
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 10:16:27 AM

nope

RE:
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 11:23:49 AM

The four blocks (HOME, MENU, CALCULATOR, FIND) are backlit, the Graffitti area is not.

RE:
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 12:09:40 PM

>>The four blocks (HOME, MENU, CALCULATOR, FIND) are backlit, the Graffitti area is not.<<

Just as good!!

RE:
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 3:55:10 PM

Actually the graffitti area is lit a little since the front light sits underneath the top of the Graffitti area,
and the light can go to the top of the Graffitti area.

RE: Backlit graffiti area - NO, not on my US model
Posted by: PalmZealot @ 5/30/2001 2:00:37 PM

I just bought a Sony Clié N710C at Fry's last night. I had to charge it first to try it out - not like the HP Jornada 547 I bought last week (the HP 547 came with a Stowaway Keyboard, UBS cradle and 32MBRam for $399 - hand to try it - Ugh - S L O W . . . .).

I tried the Sony Clié N710C in the dark to see if the graffiti area was indeed lit, but is was NOT, and neither were the Home, Menu, Find or Calc areas. I found it impossible to write on the graffiti area in the darkness of the room while the mighty glow of the screen blinded me. Trying to find the "Brightness" button on the graffiti area was impossible too because it wasn't lit either.

While screen is bright, and sharp, but appears muddy and grey because of the bad CONTRAST setting. Too bad its not like the PPC's out on the market - like the HP 547 I bought last week - it of course has both Contrast and Brightness settings - something ANY color device SHOULD have. Your COLOR TV at home has a Contrast and Brightness adjustment, why not on these Palm OS handhelds????

Also point real quick if I may, the Sony Clié N710C is noticibly heavier than the other Palm PDA (minus the Prism of course), and if people are going to compare the m505 and the N710C, they should take into consideration the size of the two devices.

Its stands to reason that if the m505 had AS BIG a battery that the N710C uses, that the m505 would be AS BRIGHT and the battery life would last AS LONG as the Sony Clié N710C. Of course though, that would make the m505 AS BIG as the N710C, so what would be the point of having an m505 THAT BIG???? The m505 would loose its small sleak design. So that's the trade off.

After testing out the Sony Clié N710C, I have decided that I will be returning the Sony Clié N710C (like I did the HP 547). The Sony Clié N710C to me isn't worth the $537 (incld tax) I paid for it.


Reply to this

New Clie
Posted by: Dave @ 5/28/2001 12:37:54 PM

Few comments-
Sceen is pretty bright/colors little murky
Battery life in real testing doesn't last as long as m505
It is a thick machine, doesn't have the same pocketability factor.
To store songs on it, you need memory stick, which are very expensive.
Graffiti area does not glow.
Stick with your m505, it'll treat you right.
RE: New Clie
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 12:42:49 PM

another misinformed commenter


RE: New Clie
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 1:17:42 PM

how come everyone said memory stick is expensive. I found 64Mb for $78, how much is 64Mb of SD card anyway?

RE: New Clie
Posted by: twizza @ 5/28/2001 2:06:34 PM

i have seen the sd cards at expensive stores such as circuit city and best buy go for around $50-$55. the MMC versions go for about $15 less that that.

as for the price that u quoted. where was that. i have not see a 64mb mem stick for less that $80-$85.

RE: New Clie
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 2:31:50 PM

$50 for a 64Mb SD card? i don't think so. you said Circuit city, best buy... so there are no proves because but here is my prove of price for memory card, $78 for 64Mb
http://www.moreaudiovideo.com/Shopping/ItemList.cfm?ItemID=238

and $78.99 for 64Mb at
http://www.etronics.com/product.asp?stk_code=sonmsa64a&svbname=31

and $82 for 64Mb at ecost.com

please show me some place where they sell 64Mb of SD card for $50, please get real, don't post any message if you have nothing to back you up with

RE: New Clie
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 8:40:49 PM

Holly Cow!
Thats pretty cheap! $78.00 for a 64MB Mem stick.

I done know why i've been trying so hard to get one off Ebay !

New Clie will be the m505 killer!!!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 2:30:31 AM

OK, so the clie is only slighly bigger than the m505, and that the Clie uses only 8-bit color, and that the Clie uses memory sticks. So what?!?!

I don't understand why people are so fixated on these minor details.

Let's talk about the major details:
1. increase resolution 320x320
2. no grid-lines
3. built-in multi-media/MP3 support
4. jog-dail for easy navigation with a back button
5. adjustable screen contrast/brightness
6. better smoother text
7. brighter, whiter screen
8. longer battery life
9. 8 MB internal RAM, 4MB flash ROM, and 8MB memory stick included
10. travel charger included

The Clie has ALL the above while the m505 lacks them, and in my opinion, the features listed above most than justify fewer colors and a 0.16" thickness.

By the way, the color depth in the m505 is useless because of the dim screen.

New Clie will be the m505 killer!!!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 2:30:31 AM

OK, so the clie is only slighly bigger than the m505, and that the Clie uses only 8-bit color, and that the Clie uses memory sticks. So what?!?!

I don't understand why people are so fixated on these minor details.

Let's talk about the major details:
1. increase resolution 320x320
2. no grid-lines
3. built-in multi-media/MP3 support
4. jog-dail for easy navigation with a back button
5. adjustable screen contrast/brightness
6. better smoother text
7. brighter, whiter screen
8. longer battery life
9. 8 MB internal RAM, 4MB flash ROM, and 8MB memory stick included
10. travel charger included

The Clie has ALL the above while the m505 lacks them, and in my opinion, the features listed above most than justify fewer colors and a 0.16" thickness.

By the way, the color depth in the m505 is useless because of the dim screen.


Reply to this

Sony doesn't expect it to sell
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 1:16:53 PM

Look at the advertising. They spent millions to advertise the playstation 2 (before it came out), advertise their wega tv's, and their Vaio laptops. They haven't spent a dime advertising it. If the parent company doesn't care enough, why should we? Even if the Clie is the greatest handheld ever, if the parent company doesn't care the general public shouldn't either.


They are starting to advertise
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 4:07:57 PM

Actually I just saw the first ad on Friday.

It’s on the back cover of the June 1, 2001 Entertainment Weekly – not exactly a geek magazine.

They say it’s business tool because it runs the Palm OS. And it has entertainment features-it plays MP3’s and video clips.

I’m looking forward to getting my hands on one. –Just like a lot of other people.

I also hope that Sony can bring some add-on accessories to market soon too: wireless modem, folding keyboard, memory sticks with applications, etc.


RE: Sony doesn't expect it to sell
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 12:48:01 AM

My there are a lot of irrational people posting here with "Sony Envy".... The CLIE has sold out on the west coast in one weekend... hey Sony haters, my Mem Stick is bigger than your SD card!!

*arrogant chuckles*

RE: Sony doesn't expect it to sell
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 1:09:25 AM

You're an idiot!!

Did Palm advertise the m505 or m500 much?

Did Handspring advertise their products much?

I don't understand people like you, you post these ridiculous comments trying to trash a very good handheld. What's the matter? Did the Sony make your m505 look like crap? Are you afraid that Palm is going to get their butt kicked by SONY, HandEra, and Handspring?

RE: Sony doesn't expect it to sell
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 9:42:00 PM

Ummmm,
perhaps its not advertized because there are NONE TO BUY!!!!!
Cali is SOLD OUT.
REST of the country has yet to get it.

Lets advertize so frustated masses can go to their local retailer just to be disapointed!!!!

What an idiot.

RE: Sony doesn't expect it to sell
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 12:26:48 PM

Hey Sony/M505 fighters, my CF card has more memory than your memory sticks and SD cards combined.....

(not withstandng the fact that i can still use an SD card on top of that)...

ah, expandability....gotto love it

Handera330 user


Reply to this

Why is that?
Posted by: David Ross @ 5/28/2001 2:04:10 PM

Why is everyone fighting for their handheld? Just use the one you like and leave us alone!
RE: Why is that?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 4:27:54 PM

Because M505 owners are having a hard time right now. They have to keep justifying their M505 purchase to themselves. I think the more choices we have the better. But some M505 owners keep trolling any Clie' article with disparaging remarks about a PDA that most have never seen in real life.

Nobody wins with less choices, we all lose.

RE: Why is that?
Posted by: Gepeto @ 5/28/2001 5:32:33 PM

(David Ross = my Real name when I post from my Palm)
Exactly, but only to some extent. As long as most applications stay compatible with every device, I think the more choice the better. If people start to do Hi-res only applications, that's something else. And I think M505 may be right about the small size of it, but the CLIÉ is NOT a monster, it might be a bit bigger but some people like me don't care, we just want a bright screen with lots of pixels :)

David Ross
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 8:20:32 PM

David Ross? Are you David Ross from MacAddict?

RE: David Ross
Posted by: Gepeto @ 5/28/2001 9:17:25 PM

In fact I'm a student near Montreal. I'd love to have a brand new mac though :P


Reply to this

Clie low color count
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 5:09:11 PM

Somebody posted that the m505 has more possible colors that maximum pixels. I don't think he realizes that most people want this. The Clie with it's 256 color display, has only one different color for every 400 pixels if you fill up the screen evenly with all the colors. Do the math:
320x320=102400 pixels
/256 colors
400 pixels per color.
Now, that's not a very attractive number, is it?


RE: Clie low color count
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 5:29:35 PM

just look at the screen when you can get a hand on one, trust me the screen is much better than the m505, no question about it. No need for all these calculations. Just wait


RE: Clie low color count
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 11:01:37 PM

m505 has 16 bit color, but it looks like there are many layers of screen protector on the screen to dull the color.

RE: Clie low color count
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 2:19:51 AM

Why in the world would we want so much colours? It's a PDA after all, not some video player or photo album. These are just some extra sweet features, and ultimately, I think the higher resolution is more important in the long run.

RE: Clie low color count
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 4:04:12 AM

Here's some more math for you.

A 160x160, 16-bit color device has 25600 pixels and a range of 65536 colors. What do you need all those colors for?

An 8-bit color image, IF DITHERED WELL, can come very close to the quality of a 16-bit image in most cases.

Also, it was not too long ago that we were all playing 320x240 (or 320x200) DOS games in 8-bit VGA. (Kind of puts things in perspective, hm?) I never had any complaints about using a 256 color palette!


Reply to this

SIZE and the STICK
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 6:50:20 PM

It is nice too see that finally a bunch of us geeks finally realize that SIZE DOES MATTER !!

BTW - gotta stay away from memory stick - don't need a box of those to go with my beta machine. Long live CF - usable by more than Sony.

RE: SIZE and the STICK
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 7:24:54 PM

Sony and who else?

Could it be?!

Motorola for those following recent news.

RE: SIZE and the STICK
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2001 11:11:30 PM

Yeah good call... If Motorola makes the next Dragonball with memory stick support, I see a new standard for the PalmOS. And the next Clie will be sweet too!


Reply to this

RE: battery life
Posted by: Altema @ 5/28/2001 9:09:11 PM

Actually, the advertised battery life for the Sony is is 7.5 hours, The advertised battery life for the Palm M505 is 10.25 hours with mixed sidelight usage. With the sidelight on constantly, the time appears to be between 7 and 9 hours, so you can probably expect about 12 hours if you avoid the using the light at all, which is a flourescent display and should never burn out. Although neither one compares favorably with the III series (the IIIc will do up to 16 hours, IIIxe up to 30 hours), you have to consider the form factor of the M505 (smallest color device in the world), and the extra drain of the audio output on the Sony. What concerns me though, is that Palm OS users are beginning to bash Palm OS users. What gives? Both devices have their strong points and unique features. That's a good thing: we can pick our preferences and be a happy camper, and that does not mean we have to put down everyone else who may have different needs. The Pocket PC cannot gain the ground they want on Palm OS devices, even by giving away Desktop software, giving bribes to Palm supporters, and putting out full page cheap shots. However, Microsoft would love for this infighting to blow up, just so they can something more than their toenail in the PDA market. Open discussion on Palm OS device preferences is great, and the diversity will only make the Palm OS world stronger, but let's keep it civil.
RE: RE: battery life
Posted by: twizza @ 5/29/2001 12:08:03 AM

nicely said.


RE: RE: battery life
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 1:22:30 AM

Yes, I agree with you. I'm just irritated at all the people who are just posting wrong information about the Clie. I really wish people would stop, it's childish and unproductive.

But civility is no fun!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 8:24:36 AM

nt

RE: RE: battery life
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 10:16:43 AM

Debating the relative merits is useful. Ego-driven name calling is a waste of time. I'm pleased with my M505, but I'm glad there's another choice for those with different priorities.

RE: RE: battery life
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 11:10:32 AM

7 ~ 9 hours with sidelight on for M505?
I did a test as soon as I got my 505.
I use AOCtrlDA to keep my 505 on, with the sidelight on, it can only last for 5:49 (just idle, no any program running). If I kept the sidelight off, the battery life was 13:24. Both of them were measured by Runtime.

Is it normal? Can anybody tell me your battery life?

RE: RE: battery life
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 9:49:59 PM

Yeah why are we Palm OS people fighting?

Theres an Ipaq neard over there in the corner. Hes mumbling some Ram/Rom/bits sampling/ geekspeak.

Lets all go after HIM. :)


Reply to this

[ No Subject ]
Posted by: anonymous @ 5/29/2001 6:33:51 AM

Can the 710 actually play movies fluently? Or is this nothing more than an interesting demo of a still unrefined idea? It sounds too cool to be true!
RE: [ No Subject ]
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 4:24:59 PM

Unfortunatly no (but the audio is good). I am not if it is the software problem though!



Reply to this

RE: battery life
Posted by: Altema @ 5/29/2001 9:41:21 AM

Boris, you are right that these are not real world tests, they are indeed constant drain tests. Nobody uses their Palm that way. The only real-world numbers were for the III series of which I've had five. I have seen battery life testing manipulated in pretty extreme ways. One non-Palm organizer claimed to have a battery life of 180 hours continous! Reading the fine print, it turns out that the device was tested in a mode where there the screen was on, with no back light and no processing. Perhaps we could take a moment and standardize the tests. 30 minutes a day in a game demo mode, or something with the processor actually doing something?

Paul Campbell,
Telecommunications Network Engineer

RE: RE: battery life
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 1:00:51 PM

No bad idea at all.

But real life is even different from that.

We should consider once a day to:

Look up 20 addresses
Synchronise wireless to avantgo a given channel amount
Read email 15 minutes
Writing text for 20 minutes

Looks good in theory - but who has the time to do this for a prolonged time?

I would say - lets get on with life and accept the fact that the Palm 50x is a pretty good machine with a acceptable screen and enough battery life to make you comfortable in normal conditions - and let the fine details to the non-power user who crawl even in the last bit.

(Thought for expeditions which are away a prolonged period from their homebase like the one on:
www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=1923
We propose always battery driven Palms / Symbols / HandEra or battery emergency loader)

A power user is the one making the most of his machine by working with it every day and gaining benefit in being more productive or / and have simple good fun

- and not the one disassembling his Ferrari by the day (as only a freak does)
- changing oil and measuring the gas with a stick to calculate the consume

These chaps are avoiding driving around as the tires could get wet.

If the majority of users would more focus on real life problems (the proper software / solutions)and not trying to measure what’s not worth to measure as long at is basically ok- we would have a lot less useless flames and stress.

That’s the way I see it

Boris
www.palmtop-pro.com
--


Another theme: The chaps biting the nickel on this forum (on unimportant theoretical academic arguments) overlook that the product itself is not the mayor cost involved – if you choose the wrong tool (and thats the software) for your work means that you have to spend incredible time and effort later on.


Reply to this

This is REALLY sad
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 9:56:55 AM

I'm reading these post because I need a Palm and NONE of them are the perfect PDA for me. EVERY Palm I've looked at from EVERY manufacturer has some flaw. Handsprings are too big (the Edge is too expensive for being b/w). The Palm m505 screen isn't worth the $. The Clie has no wireless capability, and none planned for the immediate future. It's also NOT Mac compatible even though its USB. The Handera is cool, but again b/w screen and no wireless capability. The Kyocera is nice, but no Mac compatibility, and with the Samsung i300 months away, $500 is alot for a b/w screen. Even with all these visible flaws (give the high price of the "high end" models there is NO reason any of you should be quibbling that one model is better than another. Each has a stong point AND a weak point. In reality, there is very little that a m500 or a Clie can do that an M100 can't do. If you want to watch a movie on your PDA, go ahead. I need to get real productivity and performance for the $ out of whatever PDA I get. If I want to watch a movie I've got a DVD player in my laptop.


Get the m100 if you are cheap, get the m505 if you are not.
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 11:17:28 AM

This isn't rocket science.


RE: This is REALLY sad
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 12:08:41 PM

The Clie is compatible with a USB Macintosh if you get the Markspace (www.markspace.com) Clie Macpak. I use this on my Clie 300 and my brother uses it on his 710 he picked up Saturday at Frys San Diego. Cost is around $30.00.

PS-Sony actually will tell you to buy the Markspace software if you want to use a Clie on a MAC.

It's NOT about being cheap!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 2:08:24 PM

The point is everyone here is bickering over which PDA is the balls out best when NONE of the them are. They ALL have there weak points. I'm not buying ANY Palm now. I'm not alone here. Palm is on hard times because ONLY ubergeeks will tolerate their unimpressive line of PDAs. Give me a M505 with a hi-rez bright color screen, wireless capability to get MY email (not just palm.net), out of the box compatibility with Windows and Mac, add in a few whiz bang features like MP3 and then you might have a PDA worth of $450. Until then its all junk.

You are asking for features that you really don't need.
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 3:35:28 PM

nt

RE: This is REALLY sad
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 10:00:03 PM

Yeah why are we Palm OS people fighting?

Theres an Ipaq neard over there in the corner. He's mumbling some Ram/Rom/bits sampling/ geekspeak.

Lets all go after HIM. :)


RE: This is REALLY sad
Posted by: Chromosome @ 5/30/2001 1:24:11 PM

I love my m505--it's a better fit for my needs than the Sony. I also give a nod to Sony for developing the memory stick (SD/MMC) technology that Palm incorperated into the m50x. Most importantly, thanks to the Clie enthusiasts who developed the software (MSMount, McFile, and PowerRun) that really made the MMC work. It was even a Clie enthusiast who wrote a thread to walk us all through using these progerams last month! For those Clie lovers-enjoy your powerful new device! Functionally superior to my m505 but a little bigger. I respect you and appreciate you. Remember the words of Rodney King.. ;)

Chromosome

RE: This is REALLY sad
Posted by: CarlJ @ 5/30/2001 2:09:41 PM

I agree -- I love my new Clie; it's a better fit for my needs than the m505. I really like the m505 as well, but I am among those disappointed by the screen brightness. If the m505 screen works well for others (or perhaps you received units better/brighter than the demo models I saw), well, hey, that's cool, too.

As far as size goes, from my perspective it was, "hey, cool, the Clie is smaller than my IIIx", rather than, "gack, the Clie is bigger than a Vx". Sure, I'd love to have a Clie screen/backlight in an m505 body, but then I also want a 400mhz StrongARM, 32mb memory, flat-rate wireless Internet connectivity, and OS5... don't we all? :-)

It seems everyone is also arguing the relative merits of MemStick vs. SD/MMC vs. CF... (okay, well, granted, CF wins hands down on IO device support at this point, but you just can't build a CF-sized slot into a m505-sized handheld right now). But I see this as mostly a non-issue at this point, if you use the slot for external memory, and aren't buying / dragging around handfuls of the cards... I'm delighted by how transparently software that uses Palm's VFS API works between the two -- all the Clie MSMount-style software works on the m50x, and things advertised as supporting SD/MMC, like Palm's PalmReader (née PeanutReader), work just fine on my Clie/MemStick.

I'm looking forward to more programs supporting VFS, so you can, for example, keep a 100k dictionary app in main memory that reads from a 10mb database on a MS/SD/MMC/CF card. I'd love to see more document readers be able to directly read documents off the card (like PalmReader), without the use of MSMount or tricks to temporarily copy databases to RAM.


Reply to this

Call/Email Sonystyle and ask why pre-orders weren't shipped!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 2:52:36 PM

orderhelp@sonystyle.com

888-900-9872

Let them know they shouldn't treat their customers
this way. Ask why retails stores are selling them
when their pre-orders (with an announced ship date
of the 28th!!!) are still not shipping!


RE: Call/Email Sonystyle and ask why pre-orders weren't shipped!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 4:27:20 PM

If I recall correctly, Palm did the same thing for m505 (correct me if I am wrong).


RE: Call/Email Sonystyle and ask why pre-orders weren't shipped!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 5:59:36 PM

Does anyone know when will they start shipping the pre-orders?

RE: Call/Email Sonystyle and ask why pre-orders weren't shipped!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 9:37:11 PM

yeah - after everyone else gets theirs at retail.

Call them / Email them - let them know they shouldn't
treat their customers this way.

RE: Call/Email Sonystyle and ask why pre-orders weren't shipped!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 1:00:35 PM

Did you call Palm telling them that they shouldn't do that either?

RE: Call/Email Sonystyle and ask why pre-orders weren't shipped!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 4:42:27 PM

yes.

a pox on both their houses!
and on Staples too, for a $20 pre-order fee
that got you nothing.


Reply to this

Choices
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 4:35:26 AM

I am new to the world of PDA's following a IIIXE for Xmas last year. Like many of the commentators here, I quickly became an avid fan and tossed my self-printed paper planner. I am now trying to figure out which PDA to upgrade to. I need "power organizing" but I also appreciate "quality distractions" to fill the space between connecting flights. I do not however need to watch DVD's or view professional photographs on my PDA. Despite the critcism regarding the backlight, I was leaning towards the m505. I am happy for any pointers available for this newcomer and would like to know what other kinds of "plug-ins" are likely to be made available for the m505? Is it possible that a mp3 plug-in could produced in the same manner as PDA cameras? Is there a good site that has an easily digestible "head-to-head" comparison? These may be silly questions but greatful for any info.

Get a USA-Made m505. Use EasyView from PalmGear.com
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 9:04:17 AM

You will love it. Great upgrade from your III.



Reply to this

A wireless modem?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 2:13:52 PM

And when is the Sony Clié going to get a wireless modem? I got the Palm m505 because of Minstrel's support of the Palm platform. They've announced a wireless modem for the Palm m505, what good will the extra resolution be if you can't surf the web with the Clié? No thanks, but I'll take a Palm m505 with a Mistrel m500 and Blazer to surf the web wireless. The Sony Clié is just too limitied for me.


RE: A wireless modem?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 2:49:16 PM

I already have a wireless modem that works great with my Clie' ( as well as all of my Visors, Palms and PPCs). It is called a Nokia 8290 GSM phone. It works with any of my organizers via IR. It works with Palm's Mobile Internet Kit.

I was one of the original beta testers for OmniSky and used them until about three months ago. Bad software, bulky device and sporadic connections finally made me come to my senses. The phone makes a much better wireless modem.

Yeh! Who needs a Wireless modem, NOT ME!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 3:51:52 AM

Exactly what I was thinking,
I have a GSM cell phone with IR, which cost me nothing more than my phone contract, and it doubles as a modem for my PALMs.

RE: A wireless modem?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 10:24:45 AM

To the Wireless GSM phone users... What wireless service can you use the phones with in the U.S.? Sprint, Verizon, Voicestream, or others?
Thanks...
(Have a Palm V now, Still trying to decide between Clie N710C, Palm 505, or maybe, yes, even the iPaq)

RE: A wireless modem?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 11:05:53 AM

I am in San Jose, CA and use Cingular (formerly Pacific Bell).

Sprint Solution
Posted by: dstrauss @ 5/31/2001 2:02:30 PM

I just bought an all-in-one cable from www.thesupplynet.com which connects my Palm Vx to my Samsung 8500 cell phone. I enabled Wireless Web ($10 per month plus using cell minutes vs. $.39 per minute plus using minutes) and it works great for reaching email, but very slow for web surfing (19.2 +/-). You don't even need a dialup internet account, as you can quick connect to the Sprint net. For example, three short (one paragraph) email downloads and a single upload took 52 seconds (under the magic 1 minute useage). Not as seemless as an all-in-one phone, but for $50 for a cable, a lot cheaper.

RE: A wireless modem?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 3:48:53 PM

I don't consider a GSM phone a very simple or efficient solution for wireless access. The Minstrel m500 modem clips right onto the Palm and doesn't use any power from the Palm itself. IR communication for a sustained period will probably drain the battery a little faster. If there were a data cable solution it might be better, but you still have to fumble with two devices and a cable. The Mistrel adds only ounces to the back of the Palm and they clip together. Adding more weight to the Sony Clié would make it the heaviest PDA out there short of a PocketPC or laptop. We need some SIMPLE solutions for wireless access!

RE: A wireless modem?
Posted by: fleegle @ 5/31/2001 11:34:18 PM

"I am in San Jose, CA and use Cingular (formerly Pacific Bell)."

Which plan are you using? Does it use your voice minutes?

RE: A wireless modem?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 6/1/2001 2:03:39 AM

The way that Cingular works in CA is to add on a service called "PCS Data Connect". This is a second number that uses the data line for the phone. This means that it can also receive incoming data calls and faxes. On my phone it just pipes them out over IR if I accept the call.

The plan costs 4.99 per maonth and $.15 per minute of connect time. For me based on the 5 minutes or less per day that I averaged on the OmniSky, I am saving a huge amount of money. In the last four months, it has already paid for the phone. Connection strength is also much stronger than I ever got off of the OmniSky.


Reply to this

N710C at Best Buy!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 3:20:39 PM

For those of us east of Arizona with Fry's envy, I just wanted to let you know that I picked up my N710C at Best Buy this afternoon (5/30), so I would guess they should be all around the US by the end of the week.


RE: N710C at Best Buy!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 4:11:29 PM

Which Best Buy?


RE: N710C at Best Buy!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 5:02:45 PM

In a suburb of Chicago. Sorry for not mentioning the location.

RE: N710C at Best Buy!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 7:00:07 PM

Also in Mich, at the Dearborn Best Buy!

RE: N710C at Best Buy!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 10:36:09 AM

What is Best Buys return policy? I have an m505 that I got from OD and their return was 14 days

RE: N710C at Best Buy!
Posted by: LeshMan @ 5/31/2001 8:27:52 PM

I just went to the Best Buy on North May in Oklahoma City and they got two N710c's: one for demo purposes, and I bought the other one. They also let me trade in my old Palm Vx and get $280 towards the Clie!!!

RE: N710C at Best Buy!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 8:43:20 PM

North Olmsted, Ohio (suburb of Cleveland) has a few too. They just got it this afternoon. However their demo still isn't charged up.

RE: N710C at Best Buy!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 6/1/2001 10:43:04 PM

Thanks for the tip in North Olmsted. I traveled there tonight to see it in person from Medina, Oh. Unfortunately, the unit was not charged and I was not able to view the screen. Ugghhh!!! The salesperson suggested that I stop by tomorrow and he would try to remember to charge it overnight. I own a M505 and was very curious to see the screen and compare it to my unit. Personally, I'm very happy w/ my m505 and plan to keep it but just curious on what the Clie has to offer.


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Best Buy in stock date
Posted by: Rob Zimmerman @ 5/31/2001 3:59:00 PM

The new Clie is now in stock in a few Best Buy stores. I work at Best Buy and my store has it..YES!!! I am buying it now it rules. By sunday it should be in all stores.
Reply to this

CASE
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 6:09:15 PM

What does the case with the clie look like? is it one of those slip on things or does it attach to the unit like the palms so you dont have to take the thing in and out?

Anyone have a picture?

Thanks

go the the web site you lazy F
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 6/1/2001 10:23:54 AM

nt



Reply to this

THE TOP INSTUMENT
Posted by: NARONGSAK @ 6/1/2001 9:53:19 AM

should have data of sony cin7
RE: THE TOP INSTUMENT
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 6/1/2001 10:57:47 AM

uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


WHAT ?

You speaka english ?


Reply to this


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M100 now $115

Risktoberich @ 6/2/2001 11:05:04 AM #
It appears that Best Buy is now offering the M100 for $115. Wasn't the original price $169. Perhaps wait another couple months and you may be able to purchase it for few $20's.This can't be good for the company.
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