Comments on: Treo 500 Due This Week

Treo 500WMExperts has posted new information on the Treo 500 (aka Gandolf) first leaked here back in June. The site has a new photo that looks similar to the recent black Centro images. They claim that it will in fact be called the Treo 500v and is what will be announced on Sept 12th. As the "v" suffix suggests, it's coming to you via Vodafone, Palm's previous partners-in-crime on the Treo 750v. Like that device, it features a 3G UMTS radio and should be upgradeable to HSDPA - if it isn't already included. It is also said to include a 240x320 non-touchscreen display, a 2 megapixel camera and a microSD expansion slot.

Contrary to previous speculation, it appears this mystery device is not going to come in Palm's new, smaller Centro form factor, but will be a larger variant thereof - somewhere between the Centro and the new 680/75x style.

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Gekko @ 9/10/2007 7:10:55 PM # Q

what about a 500p?

RE: 500p
SeldomVisitor @ 9/10/2007 7:13:17 PM # Q
That's the Centro.

RE: 500p
Gazpacho @ 9/10/2007 7:14:01 PM # Q
No it isn't. Seems that the Centro is either the name for the '500p' in general or reserved for use by Sprint only.

FoleoCentral is the news, opinions & review blog about the Palm Foleo Mobile Companion

RE: 500p
Gekko @ 9/10/2007 7:14:27 PM # Q

so no PalmOS larger device, only WM? the dinky one is PalmOS?

RE: 500p
Gazpacho @ 9/10/2007 7:17:10 PM # Q
Sure there will be a GSM PalmOS device similar to the Centro, see the pics of the white Centro of Orange France a couple of days ago.

But this WM thinghy is going to be launched first, probably.

FoleoCentral is the news, opinions & review blog about the Palm Foleo Mobile Companion

RE: 500p
Gekko @ 9/10/2007 7:30:29 PM # Q

>Contrary to previous speculation, it appears this mystery device is not going to come in Palm's new, smaller Centro form factor, but will be a larger variant thereof - somewhere between the Centro and the new 680/75x style.

did you read this?

RE: 500p
hkklife @ 9/10/2007 9:18:28 PM # Q

As of next month or so, Palm will be using 4 formfactors for their smartphones:

(from smallest to largest)

1. Centro. CDMA on Sprint. Runs FrankenGarnet. Tiny keyboard and 320x320 touschscreen.

2. Treo 500. GSM on Vodafone initially. Runs WM6 Standard. 320x240 non-touschscreen. Appears to be a bit wider than the Centro with a bigger keyboard to accomodate its "widescreen".

3. Treo 680/750/755p. Nearly identical models for CDMA & GSM a modified, antenna-less version of the traditional Treo 600 design.

4. Treo 700p/w/wx. Slightly larger and thicker with external antennae. Very slightly larger keyboard and LCD than the 680/750/755p.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: 500p
heavyduty @ 9/11/2007 10:21:44 AM # Q
hk, you *still* really believe we're going to see a GPS device from Palm this year??

Like I've told you on several occasions: no way in he11....

Palm Vx (a classic) -> Palm 505 (*yawn*) -> Dell Axim (slooow...) -> Palm TE (great) -> Qtek 9090 (great idea, lousy platform) -> Nokia 6630 (a toy) -> iMate SP3i (not bad) -> Nokia 9300 (can't sync notes!!) -> Treo 650 (awesome) -> hw6915 (almost perfect)

RE: 500p
heavyduty @ 9/11/2007 10:27:54 AM # Q
Also, where's that Wifi you were hoping for in their upcoming devices? Have you now *finally* learned not to hope for even several-years-old tech from Palm?

Palm Vx (a classic) -> Palm 505 (*yawn*) -> Dell Axim (slooow...) -> Palm TE (great) -> Qtek 9090 (great idea, lousy platform) -> Nokia 6630 (a toy) -> iMate SP3i (not bad) -> Nokia 9300 (can't sync notes!!) -> Treo 650 (awesome) -> hw6915 (almost perfect)
RE: 500p
hkklife @ 9/11/2007 11:10:47 AM # Q

I didn't say anything here about GPS here! True, I was hoping for it a while back but after the Fooleo debacle I pretty much gave up hope on Palm EVER getting it together--certainly on the Treo line, at least. This just goes to show that Colligan's comments about a "Mercedes" high-end Treo were more hollow promises. It's the most critical season of the year for product introductions and Palm is trotting out two "downgraded" entry level models. Remember when October was the time when Palm traditionally released high-end Tungsten devices!?!

And wi-fi? It's not going to appear as standard BUT I'm still hedging my bets that Palm will release a Palm-branded miniSDIO wi-fi card in the near future. It can utilize the wi-fi drivers that are built into all of their WinMob Treos (or made available to download for WM devices only if not). Something just like this one, in fact:

In one of the odd Palm nods to usability while still staying in the stone age, I could see them doing future Centro/Treo 500 designs with mini or microSD slots under the battery with an extended/deeper cutout to accomodate the longer wi-fi cards so they don't protrude out of the device (see the pics in the link above). Then Palm keeps the carriers happy (no wi-fi standard), can advertise their new products as wi-fi compliant to end users like us, and have another overpriced Palm-branded product to sell at their stores & kiosks.

By the way, isn't it funny how expansion cards were all the rage a few years ago? But now companies are either going without removable expansion media at all (Apple), downgrading in size/speed/usability (Palm) or going with card slots that are under batteries and/or otherwise nearly impossible to reach (nearly all new dumbphones on the market)? Companies still see expandable memory in devices as a threat to their bottom line. It's like digital camera manufacturers are operating in a universe separate from all other CE products on the market!

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: 500p
SeldomVisitor @ 9/11/2007 11:19:53 AM # Q
I think Colligan's most recent comments:

== "...I have decided to...focus all of our energies on delivering our
== next generation platform and the first smartphones that will bring
== this platform to market. We will, of course, continue to develop
== products in partnership with Microsoft on the Windows Mobile platform,
== but from our internal platform development perspective, we will focus
== on only one..."

pretty much explain about that Mercedes...

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nybble @ 9/10/2007 7:29:09 PM # Q
It's embarrassing. This is what Palm decides to go Apple about with a mysterious launch date? A touch screenless winmob device, with the same small screen and what looks to be no 5-way directional pad.

Way to go Palm.

<> that is my tech blog. There are many like it, but that one is mine.

RE: honestly
jca666us @ 9/10/2007 7:47:41 PM # Q
If Palm is still in business in 2008 we should see some sort of response to the iphone.

By then apple will have released iphone 2.0 or 3.0

RE: honestly
nybble @ 9/10/2007 8:03:17 PM # Q
In this time of crazy M&A, privatization and shareholder activism how is it possible the Colligan still runs this show? I'm just saying.

<> that is my tech blog. There are many like it, but that one is mine.
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I guess dropping the touch-screen was a mistake

ExPalmUser2 @ 9/10/2007 9:30:52 PM # Q
I haven't played around with Windows Mobile 6, so I don't know how usable the UI would be without a pen, or how much more usable it would be with a pen. But text-entering wise Palm should have a lot of customers already convenient with Graffiti 1. Graffiti One thanks to being unistroke and well-designed is *fast* and *accurate*. And if I'm not mistaken WM has some sort of text entery just like Palm's Graffiti One. Personally I'd prefer to graffiti on the screen than to type on that little keyboard. Thanks to Giraffe I do 30wpm on graffiti one.

These mistakes are not the sort that Jeff Hawkins would make. It's interesting to know how much influence he has on Palm's products these days. What's going on there?? :))

RE: I guess dropping the touch-screen was a mistake
jca666us @ 9/10/2007 10:35:23 PM # Q
haven't you heard? Hawkins is busily working on foleo 2

As i write this, he's whittling down a block of wood to find the perfect foleo 2 form factor! :/

RE: I guess dropping the touch-screen was a mistake
hkklife @ 9/10/2007 11:02:26 PM # Q
Thinking out loud about a few questions we haven't seen answers to yet:

1. What will the battery capacity battery be? My guess is 1200mAh. Fixed or removable? And will it share the same battery design with the Centro?

2. 2.0mp camrea & BT 2.0 is quite nice for a lower-end Treo....and the screen resolution trups all current WinMob Treos. Touchscreen aside, this thing might really steal sales from the 750! Palm needs to release a 320x320, WM6 Pro refresh of the Treo 750 *ASAP*. And even a mild refresh of the 700wx (755 formfactor, WM6 Pro) wouldn't be bad for the CDMA market. I'm really surprised Palm hasn't tried to update their existing WM Treos so far....unless, as SV has hinted at time and time again, they are going to let the Taiwanese ODMs do all of their heavy lifting so that can put all of their energies on the final FrankenGarnet devices and (presumably) getting PLinux bug-free and eventually to market.

3. Since this one can use A2DP for stereo headphone purposes, does that mean we might luck out and get a proper 3.5mm stereo headphone jack on the Centro?

4. Will anyone in the US carry this thing? Does at&t care about ANYTHING Palm-branded anymore? Maybe Palm will just sell a cheap unlocked version of this to domestic customers via since I think at&t is still iPhone-obsessed at the moment. Does this one support 1900mhz?

5. Yes, ExPalmUser2, WinMob (is it still in WM6, actually?) has what they call "block recognition" which is EXACTLY the same thing as Graffiti 1. Astounding. Does M$ just pay Xerox royalties for this (I've always wondered that)?

While I love the Treo's thumboard, I'd still give it up in a heartbeat if I could get a decently-sized, bright 320x480 LCD on a Treo alongside a decent metal stylus and Graffiti 1.

6. Yes, Hawkins would make these sorts of mistakes. Just look at how it took the Treo to lose its ungainly external antennae and then again at the Foleo disaster. The lean, mean, and hungry Hawkins of yore wouldn't have made those mistakes. But the rich, content, and bored Hawkins of 2007 would not bother whittling down a block of wood nor would he employ a tap counter.

P.S. I wonder how many taps (and minutes) it would require to pair a laggy, crashing FrankenGarnet Treo with a Fooleo for BT DUN?

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: I guess dropping the touch-screen was a mistake
twizza @ 9/11/2007 8:30:13 AM # Q
This Treo is supposed to use Windows Mobile Standard (smartphone, non-touchscreens) and therefore will not need any kind of handwriting recognition. It also uses a good deal of keyboard-based bnavigation, such as being able to navigate the start menu via hitting Start then a number button corresponding to a program on the list. Navigation is a good deal better than with on touchscreen WM devices, and having used one (a Windows Mobile Smartphone device), there is a lot that transfers in terms of user experience to PalmOS Treos. One could even argue much moreso than WM Professional does.
RE: I guess dropping the touch-screen was a mistake
ExPalmUser2 @ 9/11/2007 11:14:46 PM # Q
@twizza: I once played around with HP iPAQ hw6945 and gave it's tiny keyboard a try. You know it works but the convenience and speed of text entry was no way (for me) close to Graffiti One (block recognizer). So personally if I had to enter text on that device I'm almost sure I'd always use Graffiti instead of the keyboard. I'd use the keyboard for dialing a phone number one-handedly or entering a (preferably!) short text with one hand. That's why I guess the presence of the touchscreen is a convenient feature (so it is important). Specially when you have enough big screen to see the block-recognizer and the text you are entering and also you have enough room on the screen to move you stylus (remember Palm's Graffiti tip? Write big!). Non-touch screen would be appropriate for smartphones with very small screens (like that of Nokia 3230: 176x208 pixels 2"). The screen on this is not that huge but it's not amongst the smallest on cellphones either. So still I'd vote for it having a touch-screen. Maybe the decision was made to keep the price down? It's interesting to know how much more expensive it would be with a touchscreen and (appropriate WM).
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Gekko @ 9/10/2007 9:55:21 PM # Q



hkklife @ 9/10/2007 10:05:12 PM # Q
Foo gave up on Palm OS & Palm Inc. long, long ago.

Surur is still kicking around on TreoCentral nowadays.

TVoR is....ahem, likely not going to be appearing anywhere anytime soon
E-T I believe was banned from PIC.

Adama still pops in now & again but he's also had his fill of all things Palm it appears.

Chia....I suppose he moved on as well.

But yeah, I was just noticing the other day how a good number of the "PIC regular" have faded away recently. I think the combination of no compelling new products from Palm, the 700p fiasco, and the Fooleo debacle really shut the door for a lot of folks. And I'd imagine all of the big news from Apple has not helped matters for Palm either.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

Gekko @ 9/10/2007 10:13:56 PM # Q

it's weird - none of us know each other except for words on a screen yet in a way, we all know each other.

i guess someday soon each of us will move on never to be heard from again.

"Strange is our situation here upon earth. Each of us comes for a short visit, not knowing why, yet sometimes seeming to divine a purpose. From the standpoint of daily life, however, there is one thing we do know: that man is here for the sake of other men." - Albert Einstein

gatezone @ 9/11/2007 12:04:43 AM # Q
Palm is what is fading away... ;-)

I just can't seem to care about these incremental stumbles towards the edge of the cliff. I keep thinking to myself how they had to kill off the Foleo so someone wouldn't get distracted from their inability to stay focused, yet here we have windows mobile sloggig up the same old tired pixels.

Have you ever done email on a windows mobile device? It's a freaking joke. Slow as hell and funky too. So 'good job Palm' stay focused on what matters (the heard?) and keep those low res windows non-touch screens coming. Throw in a sprinkling of lame duck Palm OS systems. The market and I dare say the profit margin on featherweight laptop-like systems that communicate with phones has *got* to be greater than these lame hardware they keep throwing at the carrier walls to see what sticks.

An there's Apple putting out a PDA music player Internet device in the same form factor as their phone. What a concept. They've already got the production facilities running. It's like business school 101 existing product variant to extended market.

rmhurdman @ 9/11/2007 1:01:28 AM # Q
Adama Brown seems to spend a lot of time at Brighthand. I was thinking of fading away (not that I'd be missed), but it seems watching this slow-motion train wreck is like an addiction.

Surur @ 9/11/2007 10:05:19 AM # Q
I'm still around, just less argumentative :)


twrock @ 9/11/2007 11:17:38 AM # Q
Must be getting old. ;)

Thinking about Vista? Think again:
Want an alternative? Try this: or
mikecane @ 9/11/2007 11:59:00 AM # Q
Or finally having regular sex.

I guess his hand stopped playing hard to get...


mikecane @ 9/11/2007 4:27:20 PM # Q
Surur is not taking bait these days. He's changed!

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Me too phone - me neither sale

lobotomic @ 9/11/2007 3:04:29 AM # Q
Why wait for this when I can get a MUCH thinner, way better looking, Samsung SGH i600 with videoconferencing thrown in? Or the even nicer i620? Or a Motorola Q? Or...

There are very many Windows Mobile Standard phones in the market, and this stands out for nothing but its fatness and ugliness.

A Palmux HSDPA Centro might grab my attention again; meanwhile, bye bye Palm. There is NOTHING interesting to see here, let's move on.

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RE: Centro next to Treo photo
mikecane @ 9/11/2007 9:10:56 AM # Q
Wow. I wonder if Pogue will again calm them "the size of a hydrogen atom"?

Gekko, you sure you want that?

RE: Centro next to Treo photo
mikecane @ 9/11/2007 11:12:32 AM # Q
The HTC Touch? Is that the same one that rips off the iPhone UI in places? Let's how fast the court injunction flies and patent infringement suit is filed.

RE: Centro next to Treo photo
Surur @ 9/11/2007 1:53:49 PM # Q
No, it isn't. HTC has some words for Apple however for ripping of their name....


RE: Centro next to Treo photo
mikecane @ 9/11/2007 4:26:05 PM # Q
Apple will win. It always does.

RE: Centro next to Treo photo
freakout @ 9/11/2007 7:46:23 PM # Q
^^ ROFL. Yeah, they totally kicked Microsoft's ass in the PC wars! Go Apple! :/
Reply to this comment

Thinking behind the new design

cervezas @ 9/11/2007 10:20:08 AM # Q
One thing about the Centro/Treo 500 design: the whole keypad area looks somewhat "cleaned up" compared to the Treos. The impression is of a simpler device, even though you have the same controls there. I'm betting that having the call and app launching buttons large, flat, and in their own "belt" reduces the "QWERTY shock" that even Brody Keast once mentioned some people have when they look at a Treo.

Of course, there's another way to reduce QWERTY shock. (Cue the PIC 320x480 chorus!)

David Beers
Senior Wireless Developer

RE: Thinking behind the new design
heavyduty @ 9/11/2007 10:32:46 AM # Q

Please, let's not even try to find anything exciting about this device.

Palm Vx (a classic) -> Palm 505 (*yawn*) -> Dell Axim (slooow...) -> Palm TE (great) -> Qtek 9090 (great idea, lousy platform) -> Nokia 6630 (a toy) -> iMate SP3i (not bad) -> Nokia 9300 (can't sync notes!!) -> Treo 650 (awesome) -> hw6915 (almost perfect)

RE: Thinking behind the new design
twrock @ 9/11/2007 11:29:06 AM # Q
(Cue the PIC 320x480 chorus!)

I think the they all lost their voices from singing the same tune for so long that they gave up, walked to the local bar and are currently drowning their sorrows with beer and country music.

Thinking about Vista? Think again:
Want an alternative? Try this: or
RE: Thinking behind the new design
hkklife @ 9/11/2007 11:35:35 AM # Q
The only thing that can be even REMOTELY exciting is the generous software bundle on the device...but I fear more of the hideously bloated Sprint "trial-ware" that littered the 755p. Of course, PTunes Deluse is a superb touch but it's a small step against iTunes etc.

Now, Palm could at least help matters considerably by including a 3.5mm stereo headphone jack for all of the kiddies to to stick in a set of real headphones into and jam their tunes.

Yes, it looks less cluttered but what about the USABILITY of such a small board? I noticed a distinct difference in ease of typing between the 755p and my 700p due to the reduced thickness of the 755p (made it harder for my big hands to hold) and the marginally smaller keys on the 755p. The 755p/750/680 FF is as small as I'd personally ever want to get. Now, don't get me wrong, 320x480 + a tiny QWERTY board would be one thing....but going with an LCD that's even smaller than the current Treo size is just mindboggling.

P.S. It's a shame so few Palm OS apps are 480x320 friendly.....a modified version of the Treo 500 formfactor running Garnet with a small 480x320 landscape screen could be just the ticket!

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

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SeldomVisitor @ 9/11/2007 7:15:24 PM # Q
== "...but we do know some things, namely: the camera and speaker
== placement on the backs have changed ever-so-slightly; these
== phones are thinner, but not that thin; and... these designs
== look straight out of 1999. Look, we know you're trying guys,
== but you're going to have to do better than a BlackJack-aping,
== Windows Mobile almost-ran to win our hardened hearts back..."


RE: Giggle
freakout @ 9/11/2007 7:44:29 PM # Q
Nevermind the fact that other company's devices don't look much different. And they're criticising "monochromatic" colour schemes now? Uh, hello, have you ever seen one of these:

It's only one of the most successful consumer electronics devices of all time... Not to say that this Palm phone will see similar success, but really. If Apple made it they'd be creaming themselves.

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Palm Launches Treo 500v in UK

ChiA @ 9/12/2007 7:29:02 AM # Q
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