Palm Responds to Apple's Veiled Threats
The war of words and thinly-veiled half-threats between Apple and Palm has just taken a new twist, with based on new commentary by a Palm spokesperson responding to comments made by Apple's COO Tim Cook earlier this week. The comments, as seen in a new piece on the Wall Street Journal's D| All Things Digital site, have each party possible entrenching themselves for a long and protracted legal battle.
Written by John Packowski on his "Digital Daily" column, today's article is entitled "Palm to Apple: Bring It". The piece contains just enough juicy bits to make to make it abundantly clear who each company is targeting with their respective statements. As seen in our story earlier this week, Tim Cook fired the initial volley a few days ago with several semi-vague statements such as these choice quotes:
"We like competition, as long as they don't rip off our IP, and if they do, we're going to go after anybody that does … We will not stand for having our IP ripped off and we'll use whatever weapons we have at our disposal. I don't know that I can be more clear than that."
Packowski then goes on to publish a new statement made by Lynn Fox, a Palm spokesperson, refuting any claims made by Apple:
"Palm has a long history of innovation that is reflected in our products and robust patent portfolio and we have long been recognized for our fundamental patents in the mobile space…if faced with legal action, we are confident that we have the tools necessary to defend ourselves."
Interestingly enough, Fox herself is a former Apple employee who previous headed up the Macintosh PR department. She defected to Palm last year alongside Mike Bell, and is now Palm's VP of Public Relations. So Palm has obviously not decided to back down from the threat of Apple's lawyers over the two days since Cook's initial comments. Of course, given the fact that Palm's new Pre features Apple's former "podfather" John Rubinstein at the helm alongside a cadre of ex-Apple staffers, the company almost certainly realized the threat posed by Apple's deep pockets and various IP holdings and has planned accordingly.
If nothing else, Apple could be attempting merely trying to delay the Pre's release by entangling Palm in legal complications. The Pre has hit the ground running after a warm industry response to Palm's CES preview. Even the specter of legal trouble could succeed diminishing some of the Pre's initial momentum while the 3rd revision of the iPhone is being readied for release. The exact release date of the Pre remains unknown, as Palm and carrier partner Sprint are refusing to be more specific than the "1st half of ‘09" date given at CES earlier this month.
Additionally (but far less likely), Apple could be content to cede some sliver of the iPhone's market share to Palm's Pre and devices running Google's Android while offering the above cautionary words as a warning to any "me too" Asian firm looking to knock off the iPhone's UI and aesthetic.
Palm's stock, which had been trading at over double its previous levels since being buoyed by the strong response to WebOS and the Pre announcements earlier this month at CES, dropped as much as 8% yesterday, possibly due to fears from litigation by Apple, according to this Reuters article and CNBC.
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RE: We will see litigation soon if it is coming
apple has enough cash and legal talent to keep palm busy until they run out of elevation cash and close their doors.
RE: We will see litigation soon if it is coming
It is common practice in the electronic components industry for supply contracts to have clauses in them that helps indemnify the purchaser if the technology is challenged by patent infringement lawsuits.
My thought is that Apple may have some patents surrounding particular uses of multi-touch technology, but they didn't "invent" the whole idea. Even if they did, they had to license the technology to some one to manufacture for them. Component manufacturers aren't easily persuaded to produce an expensive component like a touchscreen if they can't sell it to others also.
Palm probably will have significant resources from their supplier (whoever it is) to fight patent lawsuits re: touchscreens.
Brent
Palm Vx -> Long wait -> Palm T|X
RE: We will see litigation soon if it is coming
apple has enough cash and legal talent to keep Palm busy
Apple has enough cash to buy Palm outright!!
Goodbye litigation!
It's just a matter of:
a) whether Apple calculates buying Palm as being cheaper than litigation or any perceived losses incurred from Palm infringing its IP.
and
b) whether such a purchase will be regarded as an anti-competitive move by the authorities.
Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital. Aaron Levenstein
RE: We will see litigation soon if it is coming
apple has enough cash and legal talent to keep Palm busy
Apple has enough cash to buy Palm outright!!
Goodbye litigation!
It's just a matter of:
a) whether Apple calculates buying Palm as being cheaper than litigation or any perceived losses incurred from Palm infringing its IP.
and
b) whether such a purchase will be reagarded as an anti-competitive move by the authorities.
Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital. Aaron Levenstein
RE: We will see litigation soon if it is coming
It's a lot cheaper to sue.
RE: We will see litigation soon if it is coming
If Apple could stop the Pre and, in doing so, kill Palm, through patent infringement litigation, that would be far cheaper than buying Palm, even at Palm's depressed value. If Apple views Palm and the Pre as a threat and would like to put Palm out of business, they will move to delay the Pre as long as possible and force Palm to collapse under its own weight. Then, if they are interested in anything at Palm, they just need to be the highest bidder at the asset liquidation sale.
David
Palm III> Palm IIIx> Palm IIIc> Sony T615> Sony T665> Sony TH55> Palm T|E> Palm T|E2> Palm T|X
RE: We will see litigation soon if it is coming
Apple is at a critical venture right now, especially with Steve in the public shadows currently and beyond. Will Apple continue to be the forward-looking company that it has been in recent years, or will Apple turn into defensive, hold-the-fort brand. Apple's been down this road before with other battles. Apple is far better-off continuing to build a forward brand through intentional marketing rather than the stagnant profile that litigation fights can bring.
RE: We will see litigation soon if it is coming
Multipoint Touchscreen (20060097991)
Gestures for touch sensitive input devices (20060026521)
Visual Expander (20060022955)
Activating virtual keys of a touch-screen virtual keyboard (20060085757)
Virtual input device placement on a touch screen user interface (20060033724)
Proximity detector in handheld device (20060161870)
Electronic Device %u2013 Design Patent (D504,889)
Ellipse Fitting for Multi-Touch Surfaces (20070139395)
MULTI-TOUCH CONTACT TRACKING ALGORITHM (20070081726)
MULTI-TOUCH HAND POSITION OFFSET COMPUTATION (20070078919)
MULTI-TOUCH CONTACT MOTION EXTRACTION (20070070052)
MULTI-TOUCH CONTACT MOTION EXTRACTION (20070070051)
MULTI-TOUCH CONTACT MOTION EXTRACTION (20070070050)
IDENTIFYING CONTACTS ON A TOUCH SURFACE (20060238522)
IDENTIFYING CONTACTS ON A TOUCH SURFACE (20060238521)
USER INTERFACE GESTURES (20060238520)
USER INTERFACE GESTURES (20060238519)
TOUCH SURFACE (20060238518)
CAPACITIVE SENSING ARRANGEMENT (20060232567)
Method of increasing the spatial resolution of touch sensitive devices (20060032680)
RE: We will see litigation soon if it is coming
RE: We will see litigation soon if it is coming
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->?
RE: We will see litigation soon if it is coming
No, I listed those patents to show that if Apple believes Palm is infringing upon their patents, they have plenty to sue for.
>Apple better concentrate on how to better their UI system on the iPhone. Things like
>navigating from app to app without having go "Home" first...copy, cut and paste, etc.
Palm should try innovating without ripping off other companies IP.
RE: We will see litigation soon if it is coming
RE: We will see litigation soon if it is coming
OK, you actually made me LOL with that!
RE: We will see litigation soon if it is coming
RE: We will see litigation soon if it is coming
I think that they're obsessed with fashion over function. All it would take to implement copy-n-paste on the iPhone would be some kind of OS-wide multitouch "function" button. Hold with one finger, select text with the other. Tap the button to bring up a list of traditional edit commands.
But that's not pretty enough for Apple. So users get screwed while Apple dicks around coming up with something that doesn't mar what they obviously consider an untouchable masterpiece. It's symptomatic of Apple as a whole: fashion over function. Which is fine for them, 'cause that's what 90% of their users are concerned with anyway.
http://www.theonion.com/content/video/apple_introduces_revolutionary
RE: We will see litigation soon if it is coming
Aside - I thought "copy-n-paste" was MUCH more than just text manipulation and that IS how I've been using it (forever) w.r.t. the iPhone et al.
RE: We will see litigation soon if it is coming
That obsession has proved popular with consumers. I believe Apple has been smart not to take edge cases and waste their development effort.
>All it would take to implement copy-n-paste on the iPhone would be some kind of >OS-wide multitouch "function" button. Hold with one finger, select text with the >other. Tap the button to bring up a list of traditional edit commands.
That sounds clunky - I didn't realize you were an UI designer.
>But that's not pretty enough for Apple.
Replace "pretty" with "poorly thought out" - and I'll agree.
>So users get screwed while Apple dicks around coming up with something that doesn't
>mar what they obviously consider an untouchable masterpiece. It's symptomatic of
>Apple as a whole: fashion over function. Which is fine for them, 'cause that's what >90% of their users are concerned with anyway.
It is what gives them their gargantuan profits - I guess you'd prefer they watered down their design and barely made enough cash to scrape by (Palm).
RE: We will see litigation soon if it is coming
THAT part of Apple's "intellectual" property is being mimicked by Palm for sure.
Palm "Preh": as in "eh, where's the microSD and Garnet emulator?"
RE: We will see litigation soon if it is coming
Man, I hope there's no damned record size limit in webOS. Hey, you SQLite experts - is there?
RE: We will see litigation soon if it is coming
I've always assumed so, too, but maybe not for the Pre?
== "...4. How about MMS (a.k.a. picture mail) support, and cut-and-paste?
==
== Yep, the Pre will indeed handle MMS messages, plus cut-and-paste for text...
- http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/patterson/33277
RE: We will see litigation soon if it is coming
Who said that? Oh, you.
Next!
RE: We will see litigation soon if it is coming
>has some sort of record size limit - shades of PalmOS!! - and an entire update of the
>OS is probably needed before they can put in C&P.
Actually, I believe C&P isn't in there for security reasons - no application currently has access to another application's data.
There has been a 3rd party workaround developed - I believe Apple hasn't implemented it because it's low on their priority list.
RE: We will see litigation soon if it is coming
RE: We will see litigation soon if it is coming
RE: We will see litigation soon if it is coming
Go back up to my post that both quotes the relevant part AND gives a link to the original Me-Too Media article.
Sheesh.
No kidding.
Sheesh.
RE: We will see litigation soon if it is coming
YOU: I've always assumed so, too, but maybe not for the Pre?
Learn how structure sentences so they are unambiguous. Given your record of sneering "vaporware" at the Pre, who the eff can tell anymore WHAT you mean?
RE: We will see litigation soon if it is coming
RE: We will see litigation soon if it is coming
Actually, I believe C&P isn't in there for security reasons - no application currently has access to another application's data.
Copy and paste doesn't need to access other applications. There is an system-wide clipboard that everything can access. At least that's how it works on every single other operating system on the planet.
There is no "security" reason for the lack of copy-and-paste on iPhone. There are stupid design choices that Apple can't be bothered rectifying.
SV:
I've always assumed so, too, but maybe not for the Pre?
On a mobile device, copy-and-paste of text is what people need. On the desktop you can c&p pretty much anything, sure, from pictures to ranges of cells from a spreadsheet. But on mobile, 99% of people just want a simple to way clip stuff like URL's, phone numbers, names and addresses from one place to another. (It also makes document editing a lot easier.)
Like Mike, I really don't know what you're trying to imply here.
RE: We will see litigation soon if it is coming
Now we find out the Pre can only do "text" copy-n-paste?
And so folks are castigating Apple because they didn't do "object" copy-n-paste (and, obviously, decided against "text" copy-n-paste - maybe because that's not what folks think when they think "copy-n-paste"?).
Didn't I read recently somewhere about how one couldn't do "image" copy-n-paste on the iPhone (like from camera to email or something) so it was totally broken? Yet now here is the Pre and it can't, too (or something)?
W.r.t. applications accessing others' data - good grief, the scenario was spelled out for you and you even QUOTED it!
An application is not allowed to access other application's data; "object" copy-n-paste EXPLICTLY loads "the clipboard" with one application's data, available for any other application to access! Security hole!
Anywho, if one goes back in THIS thread only one can outright see - at face value, please - what I've been saying w.r.t. copy-n-paste.
RE: We will see litigation soon if it is coming
No. All people really care about on mobile is text c&p. No "security" issues there.
For pictures, PalmOS shows how easy it is without c&p. Just save the picture and import it wherever you need it. Say if you save a picture from the web, it appears in the Pics & Videos app. If you want to insert that picture into a document or an email, you just pick from your list of saved pictures. Simple.
What other objects do you think are necessary to c&p between applications on mobile?
RE: We will see litigation soon if it is coming
One application copies text to a clipboard, said clipboard available to another application, security hole.
Like it or not.
Now to bring us back to near the top of this posting thread, does anyone REALLY think that Apple cannot program copy-n-paste?
- http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/7125/#149415
Really?
RE: We will see litigation soon if it is coming
Doesn't seem to hurt Windows, OS X, Linux, Windows Mobile, Palm OS or Android. Are Apple so incapable of designing secure software they can't do textual copy-and-paste without exposing the inner workings of the OS? (Answer: of course they're not. They just don't want to.)
So since I'm such a silly, silly person, explain to me how clipping plain text creates a security hole...?
RE: We will see litigation soon if it is coming
> plain text creates a security hole...?
"text" is "data".
RE: We will see litigation soon if it is coming
RE: We will see litigation soon if it is coming
"Unit set to explode at 13:40 GMT at coordinates Alpha Bravo"
"Mr. Jones' prescription for Viagra has been renewed"
"Your daughter got a C on that math test"
"Mary, my wife does NOT know about that hotel reservation"
Text is data.
Placed by one application, now available to another application, security hole.
RE: We will see litigation soon if it is coming
Further, if it's such a worriesome thing, why does every other operating system allow it?
oops
http://www.macrumors.com/2009/01/26/apple-awarded-iphone-and-multi-touch-patent/
RE: We will see litigation soon if it is coming
"twrock is infamous around these parts" (from my profile over at Brighthand due to my negative 62 rep points rating)
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We will see litigation soon if it is coming
David
Palm III> Palm IIIx> Palm IIIc> Sony T615> Sony T665> Sony TH55> Palm T|E> Palm T|E2> Palm T|X